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Ben Prater

More great BMPCC footage...

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This could be a bunch of stills, except for a few movement shots.  Really?  Why even release these clips?  I guess their marketing consists of boring and uninteresting.  Anyone remember the D4 promo?  As much money as they spent at least it got people interested.  I'm cancelling my pre-order right now.

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The flat files were released by John Brawley, out of the goodness of his heart. I don't think this was sanctioned by BMD at all. And if you are interested in buying this camera I think you should download some of this stuff and see the type of versatility you can get over the files in the grade. Are these the most interesting shots ever, no. But Brawley wasn't being paid to shoot a commercial for BMD.

 

In fact, I'm glad that BMD doesn't waste a bunch of money on marketing. And I'm surprised Brawler leaked these clips again, given the Shitstorm he go got the last time he let clips out (for the BMCC). And to be fair (to you guys), back then I was one of the people screaming bloody murder about the BMCC clips until i realized that John was doing this pro-bono. 

 

Anyway, how helpful (for a potential buyer) would it be to release a bunch of clips with $100K worth of cranes and studio lighting? I think it looks like quite a capable camera. Think about how far we have come. And speaking of overproduced promo vids, lets take a tour through history, shall we?

 

https://vimeo.com/7151244

 

I've come to hate this film... and I'm not sure I have a good reason.

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This could be a bunch of stills, except for a few movement shots.  Really?  Why even release these clips?  I guess their marketing consists of boring and uninteresting.  Anyone remember the D4 promo?  As much money as they spent at least it got people interested.  I'm cancelling my pre-order right now.

First, I don't believe this is official footage from BM. Second, the clips are boring, but what is important to note is the latitude, crispness of the image, moire, etc. All the good stuff we like to talk about here in choosing camera systems.

 

So far, we've had the Brawler cruising around without locking the thing on a tripod -- so this is the first locked shots we've seen with the BMPCC. 

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I dont get the point about complaining for the lack of "artistic" shots. It's a batch of TEST shots, and it's meant to show off the technical aspects of the camera, not the ability of the director.

I like em, that's what i need from test shots, you can focus on things like DR, moirè/aliasing, and something like that, without too much eye-candy effects. Pure and simple.

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The flat files were released by John Brawley, out of the goodness of his heart. I don't think this was sanctioned by BMD at all. And if you are interested in buying this camera I think you should download some of this stuff and see the type of versatility you can get over the files in the grade. Are these the most interesting shots ever, no. But Brawley wasn't being paid to shoot a commercial for BMD.

 

In fact, I'm glad that BMD doesn't waste a bunch of money on marketing. And I'm surprised Brawler leaked these clips again, given the Shitstorm he go got the last time he let clips out (for the BMCC). And to be fair (to you guys), back then I was one of the people screaming bloody murder about the BMCC clips until i realized that John was doing this pro-bono. 

 

Anyway, how helpful (for a potential buyer) would it be to release a bunch of clips with $100K worth of cranes and studio lighting? I think it looks like quite a capable camera. Think about how far we have come. And speaking of overproduced promo vids, lets take a tour through history, shall we?

 

I've come to hate this film... and I'm not sure I have a good reason.

I'm not attacking you or John really.  I'm glad that he has released clips, whether it be the BMCC or BMPC.  My point is that I'm on the fence for cameras and I'm not wanting.  I have a GH3 and a Canon 5DmkIII.  Do I need to get a BMPC?  No.  Do I want to get one? Sure.  Like any tests, they help me make up my mind on what to buy.  Pure and simple.  Did I go buy a D4 last year because of Nikon's slick marketing?  No.  I'm just saying that there are a lot of choices, and this made it even easier for me to decide that I don't need or want the BMPC right now.  Maybe version 2, but so far from what I've seen I don't have any desire to have it anymore.  Especially if it doesn't have RAW from the start.  As for the clips, do they really stress the camera?  The codec?  Does static shots really do this?  I guess if grading is your thing well then there you go.  I for one shoot things in motion, so I'd like to see more of that.  Because these test clips are really just for grading.  I'm sorry but I like to do more shooting and less grading.  Right now the GH3 is the camera I need and use.  The BMPC well maybe next year, maybe never.

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John has used the Pocket Cinema Camera on his commercial work but likely can't release the material.

 

Where Blackmagic are going wrong is they have no Reverie marketing piece, not a lack of test shots.

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I'm certainly not asking for helicopters, jibs, cranes, etc. A simple interview, maybe a studio lit and more natural lit one, would be wonderful. A few dolly shots, maybe a simple tripod pan. I don't feel like I'm asking for TOO much! :) I'm sure someone will get there hands on it and something like this will surface at some point. I just wouldn't want to be an early adopter without seeing it in action

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The flat files were released by John Brawley, out of the goodness of his heart.
... until i realized that John was doing this pro-bono.

Anyway, how helpful (for a potential buyer) would it be to release a bunch of clips with $100K worth of cranes and studio lighting? I think it looks like quite a capable camera. Think about how far we have come. And speaking of overproduced promo vids, lets take a tour through history, shall we?

(Reverie)

I've come to hate this film... and I'm not sure I have a good reason.

Your post makes me feel uncomfortable for critizising Brawleys approach, and I realize I just missed the point. Also about the DR. You know, I am used to scale the stops for my GH2, cramming all values in front of the lens into the eight or nine stops (does anyone have the hard facts?) I have. Brawley could have done this as well. He could have chosen to shoot on another time of day, when there was no directly reflected sunlight on bright walls, blue sky and a lot of shadow in the image. He could have used an ND grade. He could have used an ND-filter(*) and dial up the iso, which had resulted in noisy shadows, but higher DR (GH2's 'iDyn'). (*) He needed no ND, he could have used a smaller aperture, like f8. Would also have helped to keep everything in focus.

But what would doing so show us about the BMPCC?

Also, natural high dynamic range is not like the HDR-images you can generate out of 2-9 differently exposed jpegs (principle: Make a LFR image, that shows different bright objects with the same values). It is about having dark and bright areas. And that's how it looks in ProRes 10-bit (on an 8-bit monitor for most, graded as 8-bit).

Reverie: I don't hate it, but I never loved it. I didn't like the 30p, it looked like video for me despite the shallow DoF. I had the Canon XH A1 (aka GH1 in the USA) with a Letus. I had the same DoF and 25p, I wasn't much impressed, only by the helicopter ;-)*
*EDIT :
Wrong!
Every 35mm adaptor owner and fan of Blooms Letus clips was VERY impressed by the lowlight in Reverie. This really was something. What can we expect from the BMPCC in this regard?

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I'm certainly not asking for helicopters, jibs, cranes, etc. A simple interview, maybe a studio lit and more natural lit one, would be wonderful. A few dolly shots, maybe a simple tripod pan. I don't feel like I'm asking for TOO much...


Honestly, it sounds like you'd rather be fooled by a huge production where the camera is the least responsible for the images you see.
I'd rather see what it can do on its own, that gives me a better idea of what it can achieve within any kind of budget.

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Honestly, it sounds like you'd rather be fooled by a huge production where the camera is the least responsible for the images you see.
I'd rather see what it can do on its own, that gives me a better idea of what it can achieve within any kind of budget.

Really? A request for a panning shot, a dolly/slider shot, and simple lit shot is a "huge" production? 

 

Heck interesting composition and a tripod with something actually happening in the frame would be a great place to start. 

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For any film or commercial yeah, for a camera test? Not really, all these things will disguise what the camera is or is not capable of.
Any kind of stabilization rig will hide rolling shutter artifacts, any kind of lighting might compensate for lack of dynamic range.

Watching pretty images is one thing, judging a camera's capabilities is another thing. Personally I'd rather see the footage as raw as possible, and from that I can tell exactly how much good lighting and grip can improve it. When I see a well shot and graded image, it's harder to tell how much money and time was spent making it look like that, and it could very well be beyond my budget, even if I can afford the camera alone.

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For any film or commercial yeah, for a camera test? Not really, all these things will disguise what the camera is or is not capable of.
Any kind of stabilization rig will hide rolling shutter artifacts, any kind of lighting might compensate for lack of dynamic range.

Watching pretty images is one thing, judging a camera's capabilities is another thing. Personally I'd rather see the footage as raw as possible, and from that I can tell exactly how much good lighting and grip can improve it. When I see a well shot and graded image, it's harder to tell how much money and time was spent making it look like that, and it could very well be beyond my budget, even if I can afford the camera alone.

In a way you are right.  But it's like shooting test charts, clinical and boring.  Sure it's important, but for most of us, we want to see real world footage.  I think the footage that AaronChicago linked is much better showing people talking, moving, walking, etc.  That footage is much better than just static stuff.  Again, if grading is all that matters then John's footage is fine.  But I'd like to see how it looks in the real world.

 

Edit: I'm not into "big budget" promos either though.  In that I think you're right as well.  But I'm not asking for that.  Just real world footage.  The footage from Auckland is much better and I'm going to work with it later to see how much I can get out of it.  Thanks to AaronChicago for posting the link.

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Though I agree to some extent that a more practical and real-life test was available, you must understand that John Brawley is a professional cinematographer and is probably likely also a very busy man. He may well have shot something more impressive with the camera that get has not uploaded yet due to being busy.

Quite honestly, I think that it's fine to voice your concerns at the lack of sample footage available but remember that most people interested in this camera are professional (hopefully) and whining about stuff like this shows a real lack of professionalism. So, take a step back, Thank him for the examples, and wait for newer footage to emerge. Why is everyone in such a rush all the time?

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Just real world footage.  The footage from Auckland is much better and I'm going to work with it later to see how much I can get out of it.  Thanks to AaronChicago for posting the link.


Sure, nothing against that, the more diversified the better.

People mentioned Reverie though, which as a marketing gimmick might work and I'm sure it sold a whole lot of cameras, but I'd rather they stop doing pieces like that. As a short film it's quite lame and as a marketing piece it's kind of questionable, a proper commercial would at least be more honest, regardless of the budget, since you'd know it's a commercial made with the intention of selling cameras.

That's why I say that when people ask for something like Reverie for camera X they're inadvertently asking to be fooled.

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I'm not asking for Reverie, but just for BMD to show a modicum of effort. What they've done so far is minimal. I understand that Brawley is a pro and probably busy...but what does that suggest about BMD? Shouldn't they have Brawley do a professional piece? Isn't that the point of having a profesional around?

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I am a radical, but I think a camera should be introduced with chart tests (resolution, moire, DR, and color), and an ISO ladder of the inside of the lens cap to show the noise floor. Some form of motion and visual load testing would be useful too to stress the codec and reveal any ghosting. Ideally these tests are carried out in a fully open, documented, reproducible manner by an independent test lab that knows how to do them properly. We then have an objective baseline for the camera system, and can move on to subjective concerns.

 

I think it's fine for there to be whizbang marketing pieces made, though ideally they aren't made by the gear reviewers (e.g. Philip Bloom being paid to make the GH3 promo and then casually leaving such conflicts out of his "ethics statement"). People want to get excited about their new toy. Certainly the C100 promo was embarrassing other than for those memorable girls on the beach and their lovely skin. The C300 promo was way over the top but announced Canon was now in town. These things cost a fortune to make and for a small struggling manufacturer are a luxury best left to the volunteer enthusiasts like you guys.

 

Though I honestly doubt anyone in this thread has ever shot footage in their entire lives that is as good as Reverie. I certainly haven't. But it's fair for you to criticize as it was made in the interest of separating you and your money. The people that bought 5D2s in 2009 after watching it still aren't suffering for their purchases however.

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