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Warning about Panasonic g85/80 & lens

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2 hours ago, tugela said:

so, basically you are complaining that the camera is too effective at stabilizing the image? Because that is what is causing that jerking motion on panning. If it is reduced, so will the overall effectiveness of stabilization. You can choose a solid image without panning, or a wobbly image that can be panned. Which is more important? The camera does not know the difference between motion you intend and motion you don't intend.

I guess you could always turn the stabilization off.

No, I guess I returned it because the footage is unusable. Zero regrets getting a full refund.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

Even Dan from DPR who wrote the G85 review is now saying that there is an issue.

""Dan Bracaglia

Update: We've also encountered it. It's really noticeable when panning diagonally, less so horizontally or vertically. I'm going to update the text to address the issue. I'm also reaching out to Panasonic to make sure they are aware of it too.""

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-g85-g80?comment=3711844134

 

I see you replied to that one.

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Like I said, don't use the body stabilization when panning. Basically what it means is that it is really effective at stabilizing a shot. Unless the camera has sophisticated algorithms for predicting intended movement as opposed to unintended movement, any camera with IBIS is going to do this. It is the nature of the beast. The image stabilization in these cameras are designed primarily for stills, which means that it may not be that useful for video. So. just turn it off if you want to pan. If you don't want to pan then it is probably going to provide a really steady platform for video. If your style is to shoot a lot of panned shots, then this camera is not for you. If you don't shoot panned shots then it is probably going to have one of the best stabilization systems around.

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16 minutes ago, tugela said:

Like I said, don't use the body stabilization when panning. Basically what it means is that it is really effective at stabilizing a shot. Unless the camera has sophisticated algorithms for predicting intended movement as opposed to unintended movement, any camera with IBIS is going to do this. It is the nature of the beast. The image stabilization in these cameras are designed primarily for stills, which means that it may not be that useful for video. So. just turn it off if you want to pan. If you don't want to pan then it is probably going to provide a really steady platform for video. If your style is to shoot a lot of panned shots, then this camera is not for you. If you don't shoot panned shots then it is probably going to have one of the best stabilization systems around.

The question is not about IBIS is it about why the G85 IBIS is reportedly not coping with normal movement that the GX85 handles fine. 

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On 1.11.2016 at 6:49 PM, jonpais said:

Once you've held a Voigtlander in your hands, all these other plastic-y lenses will feel insubstantial. 

This.

My issue with selecting lenses is that the Voigtländer was the first real manual lens I ever owned & used extensively. It raised the bar astronomically so that all other lenses dont "feel" good when using them.

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It would be a dream if Panasonic and other camera manufacturers weren't such huge, aloof entities beyond reproach, that they would regularly scrutinize forums and respond to customers' issues, rather than greeting us with silence. After all, how much effort and cost would it entail to hire a college graduate whose job it was to do just that, or to offer a bonus to other office workers, who spend all day reading Facebook or playing Candy Crush anyway, to handle these issues? But we don't live in that world, at least not yet. There are still a few, like John Brawley (Black Magic), and Brian Caldwell (Metabones), who regularly contribute to the online community, but they are the exception rather than the rule. 

5 hours ago, jase said:

This.

My issue with selecting lenses is that the Voigtländer was the first real manual lens I ever owned & used extensively. It raised the bar astronomically so that all other lenses dont "feel" good when using them.

I think it was Chris Oh who said he only had $1,100 dollars or so, I think that was for both body and lens, though that figure seems rather small...but, if I were him, I would beg, borrow or steal to get a Nokton, new or used. 

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49 minutes ago, jonpais said:

I think it was Chris Oh who said he only had $1,100 dollars or so, I think that was for both body and lens, though that figure seems rather small...but, if I were him, I would beg, borrow or steal to get a Nokton, new or used. 

hahaha, I would have to have a long, long talk with my family Chief Finance Officer.

I did, for a moment, considered GM1 and one of the voigtlanders. If I can't tell a story with a $250 camera, what's the point? :D

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1 minute ago, Chris Oh said:

hahaha, I would have to have a long, long talk with my family Chief Finance Officer.

I did, for a moment, considered GM1 and one of the voigtlanders. If I can't tell a story with a $250 camera, what's the point? :D

GM1 - amazing fucking camera. Smaller than a pack of Marlboros. Magnesium alloy body. A touch retro. Gorgeous 1080p (a little moire here and there, but that's nitpicking). Snappy autofocus (for single point anyhow). But... no IBIS, so unless you place it on a tripod or stabilizer, your pictures will be shaky as all hell with a non-stabilized lens. Which kind of defeats the purpose of having a small, discrete camera. Now for the fun part - you'll have to either find a spacer online or make one yourself, because without one, you won't even be able to mount the camera on anything. 

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3 minutes ago, jonpais said:

GM1 - amazing fucking camera. Smaller than a pack of Marlboros. Magnesium alloy body. A touch retro. Gorgeous 1080p (a little moire here and there, but that's nitpicking). Snappy autofocus (for single point anyhow). But... no IBIS, so unless you place it on a tripod or stabilizer, your pictures will be shaky as all hell with a non-stabilized lens. Which kind of defeats the purpose of having a small, discrete camera. Now for the fun part - you'll have to either find a spacer online or make one yourself, because without one, you won't even be able to mount the camera on anything. 

Hands down, GM1 and the Voigtländer was really a next level combo for me. I disagree with you jonpais, pictures are not shaky as hell. The good thing is that because the cam is so small, you hold the lens(!) with one hand and the other one focuses - no need to hold the body since it is just a bigger lens cap. The following videos were shot by me with this combo, with no gimbal, tripod at all - not even a neckstrap to stabilize anything:

https://vimeo.com/112851875

https://vimeo.com/106980788

https://vimeo.com/101335718

https://vimeo.com/96670129

https://vimeo.com/89190460

 

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1 hour ago, jase said:

Hands down, GM1 and the Voigtländer was really a next level combo for me. I disagree with you jonpais, pictures are not shaky as hell. The good thing is that because the cam is so small, you hold the lens(!) with one hand and the other one focuses - no need to hold the body since it is just a bigger lens cap. The following videos were shot by me with this combo, with no gimbal, tripod at all - not even a neckstrap to stabilize anything:

https://vimeo.com/112851875

https://vimeo.com/106980788

https://vimeo.com/101335718

https://vimeo.com/96670129

https://vimeo.com/89190460

 

@jase You are the bomb! Really nice videos (I just peeked at a few). I shake like the devil, but if I didn't drink 10 cups of coffee and smoke 2 packs of cigarettes a day, I could probably handhold better. :) Mercer, when he saw a video I uploaded shot with the GM1 and Vario G X 35-100mm, said he probably enjoyed the look better than Pansoniic's 4K. And now, it's my turn to say - I love the look of your clips. 

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23 hours ago, jonpais said:

@jase You are the bomb! Really nice videos (I just peeked at a few). I shake like the devil, but if I didn't drink 10 cups of coffee and smoke 2 packs of cigarettes a day, I could probably handhold better. :) Mercer, when he saw a video I uploaded shot with the GM1 and Vario G X 35-100mm, said he probably enjoyed the look better than Pansoniic's 4K. And now, it's my turn to say - I love the look of your clips. 

Reupload that please.  I remember saying that but I don't remember the video. 

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1 hour ago, jonpais said:

@mercer I color corrected it this time around.

Oh yeah, I remember that and yeah I think I like it better than the 4K. Don't get me wrong 4K is great, but I think there is some weight in that Panny 1080p image that doesn't translate with the 4K... Even when downscaled.

I assume the GM series shoots the avchd 1080p... Which is the same 1080p that's in the GX85? When I get the GH3, I will do a comparison between the GX85 1080 and the GH3 mov 1080p. I suppose the higher bitrate will be nicer than the avchd, but I'm not really sure... I never shot 1080p on a Panasonic before. 

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so, kinda back on topic. Would the issues on this video before a firmware update on the GX85? I am totally confused now.

fast forward to 4:30

 

and if so, would Panasonic do the same thing for G85? Or, is this just a stunt to sell more GH5?

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15 minutes ago, Chris Oh said:

so, kinda back on topic. Would the issues on this video before a firmware update on the GX85? I am totally confused now.

fast forward to 4:30

//

and if so, would Panasonic do the same thing for G85? Or, is this just a stunt to sell more GH5?

Haha...might get my G80 after all...that looks to be the exact same issue on the GX85 (from 4:37 to be precise ;-))
Which they obviously fixed (???) as demonstrated in the G80 vs GX85 videos...

 

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3 hours ago, Chris Oh said:

so, kinda back on topic. Would the issues on this video before a firmware update on the GX85? I am totally confused now.

fast forward to 4:30

and if so, would Panasonic do the same thing for G85? Or, is this just a stunt to sell more GH5?

Well,I heard these problems wouldn't have existed in the past if people bothered to turn off the stabilization.  Too bad people kept trying to use it forcing Panasonic to unnecessarily fix something meant for photos and still shots.  All joking aside, these in body stabilization systems are still no match for a gimbal.  People are trying to push the IBIS far out of what it was meant for.

I think the most common test that I see online when a new camera with IBIS comes out is people start walking with their cameras.  I bet Panasonic engineers would say "Whoa, hold on there cowboy.  What in the world gave you the impression that you can walk with the camera?  It's made for careful pans and still shots."

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I think most of the tests that show this problem with the g85 unfortunately is mostly all pans and tilts. If you walk around and shoot with it it is actually harder to notice the issue since you can't really tell if the jerky motion is just the user or camera. But after using the camera for three days mostly for video, you can recognize the problematic behavior in almost every handheld shot that has any movement with variation in speed or change in direction whether it is panning, tilting or moving in a diagonal path. If you go to the original thread about this on DPreview, besides Marcin and my test, there is another g85 owner who tested extensively in 1080 and 4k all exhibiting this issue (it is the multiple exterior footage of the satellites).

I agree ibis is not for simulating a steadicam or even glidecam walking around, but I think the tests showing this feature/bug on the g85 have been fair especially Marcin's. If anyone has a body that doesn't show this issue when the IS is on and there is variation on speed and direction whether handheld or on a tripod, would love to see it.

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