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Neil Anderson

NX1 vs. Blackmagic Cinema Camera (EF mount)

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This may seem like an odd question(I can't find any comparisons online), but I'm in the price range of both rigs-I know that the bmcc needs alot of accessories, my question is when it actually comes down to image quality with a good lens does the 4K win out, or is the 2.5K blackmagic the camera to reach for? Has anyone used both? Does the fact that Samsung has stopped supporting the camera really end up making that much of a difference?

I'm going to be scaling down to 1080p eventually if that makes any difference so I'm not interested in the 4K  for that reason, just for added detail. Also, I'm trying to shoot narrative films not documentaries.

 

 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

Ive used both and owned both more than once. They are quite different and I would decide firstly depending on what I was going to do with them. 
And if you decide BMCC I would also have the BMPCC in mind.

You dont "Need" any accessories for the BMCC, but it can sure be "Nice" to have. But even if the NX1 is a bit more out of the box, I used pretty much the same number of accessories for it as on a Blackmagic. 
Im not talking about you know, but many people in got confused when the BMCC/BMPCC was new and said, "No I dont want a Blackmagic because Philip Bloom, DSVLvideoshooter, etc, said it needs a rig to operate, so Im buying a DSLR instead".
Well, those guys uses rigs for DSLRs to, and for video cameras, and cinema cameras.

So imo and experience you can just pop on a lens and ND and go shoot. For the NX1 you bring extra batteries, for the BMCC you bring a battery.
Tripod is needed for both in most scenarios but the NX1 is of course easier for handheld without support.

But if you just want to know the difference in image and output, my personal opinion is:

NX1
+ Detail
+ Slowmo
+ Very small files
+ EVF/Tilt Screen
- Need conversion
- Sometimes to sharp (looks to video)
- Need the expensive S-Zooms imo (which are awesome lenses and can be had cheap, I payed 0 dollars after selling)

BMCC
+ Raw
+ Prores
+ Awesome and cinematic image
+ Higher Dynamic Range
- Bigger
- No Slowmo
- No EVF

My choice:
For narratives I would easily choose the BMCC over the NX1.

Alternative
If you want a camera for handheld thats a bit bigger than the NX1 but smaller than the BMCC. That shoots amazing cinematic Raw as well as compressed HD still worthy of webb publishing. Better DR than the NX1 but a bit lower than the BMCC. Long lasting battery. Can take stills. Shoots Raw slowmotion. Costs about the same used.
Then the 5Dmkiii is for you.

(BTW, regarding the fact that the NX1 is off the market. I wouldn't care to much. Any of the cameras will loose a lot of value over the coming years anyway. I recently put out a WB ad for a NX1 and was offered the body in mint condition including the S-Zoom and a couple of primes for less than $1000 from more than one seller.)

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This is so helpful. At the end of the day I am most interested in not having a "video" look, stills would be a plus, but they are not necessary. I was wondering if the reason why there aren't any comparisons is because the choice is pretty obviously the bmcc, and this seems to be the case.

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Having used the BM pocket camera and NX1 I would say that the NX1 is a much more versatile camera thanks to the 4K, and 60 & 120 fps in 1080p.
The slo mo is great for so many occasions, from action shots to immersive closeups. And the 4K single camera interview setting gives you the ability to intercut and crop the shot to look like you are shooting with two cameras.
Plus the small file sizes and long battery life (you can charge it on the go with a USB power bank) make it a much nicer run and gun camera if you are out there all day.

The main thing BM has going for it is the gradability of the files (both Prores and raw) which give you much more room to play around with before braking up.

Like Mattias said, it really depends on what you want to shoot.
Two very different cameras imo.
 

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Ok, good to know. Mattias-obviously its nice to have a wide angle and a more telephoto lens, but if you could only choose one of these as the first lens for the bmcc which would you choose? 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/884099-REG/Rokinon_cv35_c_35mm_T1_5_Cine_Lens.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1078644-REG/rokinon_ds14m_c_ds_14mm_t3_1_cine.html

Again, thanks for your insight.

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17 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Ive used both and owned both more than once. They are quite different and I would decide firstly depending on what I was going to do with them. 
And if you decide BMCC I would also have the BMPCC in mind.

You dont "Need" any accessories for the BMCC, but it can sure be "Nice" to have. But even if the NX1 is a bit more out of the box, I used pretty much the same number of accessories for it as on a Blackmagic. 
Im not talking about you know, but many people in got confused when the BMCC/BMPCC was new and said, "No I dont want a Blackmagic because Philip Bloom, DSVLvideoshooter, etc, said it needs a rig to operate, so Im buying a DSLR instead".
Well, those guys uses rigs for DSLRs to, and for video cameras, and cinema cameras.

So imo and experience you can just pop on a lens and ND and go shoot. For the NX1 you bring extra batteries, for the BMCC you bring a battery.
Tripod is needed for both in most scenarios but the NX1 is of course easier for handheld without support.

But if you just want to know the difference in image and output, my personal opinion is:

NX1
+ Detail
+ Slowmo
+ Very small files
+ EVF/Tilt Screen
- Need conversion
- Sometimes to sharp (looks to video)
- Need the expensive S-Zooms imo (which are awesome lenses and can be had cheap, I payed 0 dollars after selling)

BMCC
+ Raw
+ Prores
+ Awesome and cinematic image
+ Higher Dynamic Range
- Bigger
- No Slowmo
- No EVF

My choice:
For narratives I would easily choose the BMCC over the NX1.

Alternative
If you want a camera for handheld thats a bit bigger than the NX1 but smaller than the BMCC. That shoots amazing cinematic Raw as well as compressed HD still worthy of webb publishing. Better DR than the NX1 but a bit lower than the BMCC. Long lasting battery. Can take stills. Shoots Raw slowmotion. Costs about the same used.
Then the 5Dmkiii is for you.

(BTW, regarding the fact that the NX1 is off the market. I wouldn't care to much. Any of the cameras will loose a lot of value over the coming years anyway. I recently put out a WB ad for a NX1 and was offered the body in mint condition including the S-Zoom and a couple of primes for less than $1000 from more than one seller.)

Just adding a bit of my experience with NX1 : 

If you work on Premiere Pro you don't need to convert NX1 footage.
Also if you find the footage too sharp, which is also my case, you can dial the sharpness down all the way to -10. But also use either a slight gaussian blur (+5 in Premiere Pro) or add a bit of softness in Filmconvert. 
 

 

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Thanks Neoshushi. You care to elaborate Ironfilm? I can't find any good deals on the MFT version, and there are plenty of lens options for the EF mount. What do you have against the cinema camera versus the pocket camera?

Btw Mattias-where did you put up that wtb post for the NX 1? on this site? thats a pretty great deal.

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9 hours ago, Neil Anderson said:

Thanks Neoshushi. You care to elaborate Ironfilm? I can't find any good deals on the MFT version, and there are plenty of lens options for the EF mount. What do you have against the cinema camera versus the pocket camera?

The BMCC's smaller than normal sensor is a very poor pairing with the EF mount, makes a billion times more sense with the MFT mount. 

The BMCC  (vs the BMMCC, or BMPCC) comes at a greater cost for the body and a much more bulky weight, in return you only get a small increase in resolution (and only applies if shooting in raw, no difference at all if shooting in ProRes!) and a slightly larger sensor (but no real effective difference at all if using a Metabones on both). 

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I get where you're coming from, it's just hard to invest in a camera (that I know I won't be able to upgrade for a while) that can't do 2K or higher, but I'm also not trying to fetishize resolution specs. I wouldn't be getting the speedbooster at least right away. So, if I want a filmic 1080p look the pocket camera really delivers just as well? I'm mostly concerned with getting a quality image, and the felxibility of having the extra details of 2.5K in post also seem nice.

Do you think the NX 1 is competition for the pocket camera then, or between those two you'd go for the pocket?

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If you're just considering the 1080 straight out of the camera then you'd be very very hard pressed to see any noticeable difference between the BMCC and BMPCC. 

And the BMMCC is basically a BMPCC V2.0 (as the BMMCC has better battery life, full size HDMI, smaller overall size, and slow motion 60fps). 

Samsung NX1 is a different niche, as it is a 4K hybrid camera.

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On 2016-10-30 at 5:32 AM, Neil Anderson said:

Thanks Neoshushi. You care to elaborate Ironfilm? I can't find any good deals on the MFT version, and there are plenty of lens options for the EF mount. What do you have against the cinema camera versus the pocket camera?

Btw Mattias-where did you put up that wtb post for the NX 1? on this site? thats a pretty great deal.

EF vs MFT is just about lenses. The only real difference is that you can use stabilization with EF and control the aperture of electronic lenses such as Canon. I to would rather go for MFT but not if I found a really good deal on EF.

The BMPCC is definitely worth considering for many reasons. But I dont see any reason to get the Micro besides slowmotion. Its not that much (if at all) smaller than a BMPCC with its battery attached. And definitively not with its mandatory external rig and monitor. The pocket is usable out of the box.

But If you want the slowmo the Micro makes perfect sense.

Choosing the BMCC over both the BMPCC and Micro would give you better audio with better connections, way better user interface with the large touchscreen, an internal emergency hot swap battery (which also can be used on its own), SSD is a joy and the 2.5K can be really handy sometimes.

But any of them would do the job for a feature. See if you could find one to test in a store or a friend.

The WB ad for the NX1 was on a still photographers forum. But just today when I woke up there was an ad on our craigslist for a mint NX1 + 16-50 S-Zoom + Samyang 100mm Macro + Battery Grip = $870

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6 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

The WB ad for the NX1 was on a still photographers forum. But just today when I woke up there was an ad on our craigslist for a mint NX1 + 16-50 S-Zoom + Samyang 100mm Macro + Battery Grip = $870

That's super cheap. Following ebay for the last couple of months, you could only get either the Body only or the 16-50S lens for a similar price (a little bit cheaper maybe).

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I do follow most things NX too.

I saw an add in Sweden a couple of months ago for NX1 and a prime (I think it was the 30mm, do not remember) for 670€. That was the cheapest I have ever seen, ever! Adding the S to that, I do not know.

Maybe it's profitable for you Northeners to buy and sell. That is easily a 1500€ sell. And you are even talk about $$?!

This is the sell price of a a6000 in my country, body only, seriously.

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