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Andrew Reid

Canon 80D video quality still atrocious

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1 hour ago, Vesku said:

Brilliant AF is not helping much when the image is generally soft like off focus all the time?

Saw the video. You're right. The focus is strange. Almost causes fatigue to the eyes. 

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi
23 hours ago, Vesku said:

Brilliant AF is not helping much when the image is generally soft like off focus all the time?

My LCD shows a pretty sharp image, fine, no where near soft enough to render focus pulling unnoticeable (144p), ALIASING & MOIRE are bad when they show up. 
 

22 hours ago, sanveer said:

Saw the video. You're right. The focus is strange. Almost causes fatigue to the eyes. 

Of course, Johnny says he was testing the AF so pulling like a maniac back and forward.

80D has speed control over AF transition that was absent here btw. 

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I have a 70d and immediately wonder why people are saying "Oh this will be so popular for v-loggers".  The 70d was what, chopped liver?  Same body and same basic function.  No log mode, only now do we get 1080p60,  no 1080p120 (but the 6300 does) no log mode (6300 has multiple plus a LUT for easier focusing).  I can throw on my ultra speed booster with the a6300 + some Canon glass and it will look damn near like a FF camera.  (I think 1.05x effective crop).  Can't do that with the 80d, ever.  No focus peaking, no EVF, no silent shutter mode (a6300 has 3 shot silent burst now!).

Sony colors are much improved now over the original a7s.  That came along with the a7r2.  Still not as good as Canon.

To Andrew's point - I have 3 Sony lenses - kit 18-55 / 55-210, and the 28/2 FE.  The AF in video mode is as good as the PDAF on my 70d.  The AF in stills mode with the Metabones is vastly improved as well.

At the end of the day I am not giving Canon $1200 for a camera that won't do UHD or 1080p120 in 2016.  I'm just not.  I have 3 4k TV's.  Sorry Canon.

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4 hours ago, Shield3 said:

I have a 70d and immediately wonder why people are saying "Oh this will be so popular for v-loggers".  The 70d was what, chopped liver?  Same body and same basic function.  No log mode,

Because most vlogers dont use Log, or MF, or CC. 

They do however use SDOF, AF and selfie screens.

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi
10 hours ago, Shield3 said:

No log mode,
no 1080p120
I can throw on my ultra speed booster with the a6300  
No focus peaking,
no EVF,
no silent shutter mode (a6300 has 3 shot silent burst now!).

They don't use any of that. They want a camera they can hold, see themselves in the LCD, press record, and get perfectly In-focus good looking, great coloured HD images in small files. 

That's why we predict 80D being a hit for V-loggers. It certainly won't be a hit for narrative filmmakers who want LOG creative grading, manually focus and use Vintage glass with SBs and use external monitors. 

Different cameras for different users. 

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On 2016年4月7日 at 2:20 AM, Ebrahim Saadawi said:

@Mattias Burling is quickly just about to exceed me as the most popular contributor here of all time (jealous), that says a lot about his accuracy of posts and willingness to help others by giving away precious time with no return. I find all his opinions/posts 100% accurate. 

Having used them all I can definitely assure that, Canon Dual Pixel AF cameras are the ONLY ones that practically actually have AF for video use.
 

How can you draw this conclusion without any tests?

Actually I saw some Sony A6300 vs Canon 80D videos,A6300 do works better,not quite useful without a touch LCD,but hey A5300 is coming ,with a touch screen and much cheaper~

BTW,AF is not something new ,unlike the 4K \super sampling\ five axis IS

Think about it, if you day back to 2008,will you choose a 5D2(which don't do video AF at all) over a sony EX2(which works fairly ok)?

I remebered some people said 5D2 was useless without AF,but it beats everything by IQ~

So...are we really talk about AF again?

As far as I know, image quality is everything ,at least this is what histroy had proved.

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6 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Because most vlogers dont use Log, or MF, or CC.

They do however use SDOF, AF and selfie screens.

Yeah,they don't need OVF too,why bother to use a haevy DSLR?

Actually nowaday people like taking pics by using a cellphone becasue it is easy to use and measure exposure

DSLRs require users know how to measure exposure through a OVF ,which requires skills and may fails sometimes,so I wonder how long DSLRs can last when people get use to taking pics by looking a lcd instead of a OVF

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8 minutes ago, gelaxstudio said:

DSLRs require users know how to measure exposure through a OVF ,which requires skills and may fails sometimes,so I wonder how long DSLRs can last when people get use to taking pics by looking a lcd instead of a OVF

Do you mind explaining this because I use both a DSLR and Mirrorless and I dont agree at all.

In what way does a DSLR require more skill?

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21 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Do you mind explaining this because I use both a DSLR and Mirrorless and I dont agree at all.

In what way does a DSLR require more skill?

Because the WB\actual colour\actual brilliance\ISO noise can not be see on a ovf,you have to rely on the LCD.

Without LCD, a DSLR is useless~But if only using the lcd ,you can still take pics,that is the difference,that is why film cameras were dead

What you seeing is what you get,that is why digtal images are popular.That is why I believe the mirriorless is the future,DSLR is really dying,just a matter of time~

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi
7 hours ago, gelaxstudio said:

How can you draw this conclusion without any tests?

Actually I saw some Sony A6300 vs Canon 80D videos,A6300 do works better,not quite useful without a touch LCD,but hey A5300 is coming ,with a touch screen and much cheaper~

BTW,AF is not something new ,unlike the 4K \super sampling\ five axis IS

Think about it, if you day back to 2008,will you choose a 5D2(which don't do video AF at all) over a sony EX2(which works fairly ok)?

I remebered some people said 5D2 was useless without AF,but it beats everything by IQ~

So...are we really talk about AF again?

As far as I know, image quality is everything ,at least this is what histroy had proved.

Maybe because I did test? 

The Canon DPAF system is the only perfectly usable video autofocus system on the current market. Will other companies catch up with upcoming A5300s or D7300s? No idea.

The A6300 does better than all the other cameras on the market in video AF, it's really really good, especially under good light, but DPAF is vastly better and shows its reliability in long term usage under lowlight and under stress, and observing the motion of the focus pull.

It really is the only large sensor camera system with AF. That's something many users are striving for, shooting documentaries, blogs, YT, news, events, broadcast, even cinematic focus pulling is completely reliable under any light with the 80D. Try it next to the A6300 and see how both autofocus during video and how usable the system is in quality and usability. 

The a6300 delivers way sharper video, but overheats in that resolution mode. 

(I am playing devil's advocate, if I was buying I'd get the a6300 for the 4K and I don't need AF or long recording times and want to get the FF look with a SB and shoot at 50mm f/1.2 Nikkor, but people need to understand others have different needs, and that videography is classified under a huge number of sub-classifications/applications)

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6 hours ago, gelaxstudio said:

Because the WB\actual colour\actual brilliance\ISO noise can not be see on a ovf,you have to rely on the LCD.

Without LCD, a DSLR is useless~But if only using the lcd ,you can still take pics,that is the difference,that is why film cameras were dead

What you seeing is what you get,that is why digtal images are popular.That is why I believe the mirriorless is the future,DSLR is really dying,just a matter of time~

Guess it depends. I have no need to see the WB when taking stills. But we are all different. And I mostly use film for stills.

Imo the lack of an ovf is a bad thing. The evf is just a screen, but smaller.

If the DSLR is dying, its going slowly. They need to step up the game first.

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8 hours ago, Ebrahim Saadawi said:

They don't use any of that. They want a camera they can hold, see themselves in the LCD, press record, and get perfectly In-focus good looking, great coloured HD images in small files. 

That's why we predict 80D being a hit for V-loggers. It certainly won't be a hit for narrative filmmakers who want LOG creative grading, manually focus and use Vintage glass with SBs and use external monitors. 

Different cameras for different users. 

I must not have explained myself clearly; my fault.  The 70d has the flippy screen, great AF, will allow them to see themselves in the LCD.  Nothing new in that regards concerning the 80d was my point.  Same video with slightly better detail, but same exact functionality.  80d isn't any more groundbreaking to v-loggers than the 70d, which was my question why anyone would say suddenly "this is going to be big for v-loggers".  Plenty have been using the 70d in the exact same manner since the end of 2013.

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19 hours ago, Ebrahim Saadawi said:

They don't use any of that. They want a camera they can hold, see themselves in the LCD, press record, and get perfectly In-focus good looking, great coloured HD images in small files. 

That's why we predict 80D being a hit for V-loggers. It certainly won't be a hit for narrative filmmakers who want LOG creative grading, manually focus and use Vintage glass with SBs and use external monitors. 

Different cameras for different users. 

Actually, something like a 80D is far too heavy and bulky to be a good vlog camera. If you are going to be walking around holding something at arms length, if that something weighs 730g for the body alone, not counting the lens, it is going to wear down on you pretty quickly, autofocus or no autofocus.

The ideal vloging camera is something that is small and light. No doubt some he-man types will use it, but for most vloggers (who seem to be typically young women in late teens to early twenties) the 80D is simply too big for that purpose.

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12 hours ago, Ebrahim Saadawi said:

Maybe because I did test? 

The Canon DPAF system is the only perfectly usable video autofocus system on the current market. Will other companies catch up with upcoming A5300s or D7300s? No idea.

The A6300 does better than all the other cameras on the market in video AF, it's really really good, especially under good light, but DPAF is vastly better and shows its reliability in long term usage under lowlight and under stress, and observing the motion of the focus pull.

It really is the only large sensor camera system with AF. That's something many users are striving for, shooting documentaries, blogs, YT, news, events, broadcast, even cinematic focus pulling is completely reliable under any light with the 80D. Try it next to the A6300 and see how both autofocus during video and how usable the system is in quality and usability. 

The a6300 delivers way sharper video, but overheats in that resolution mode. 

(I am playing devil's advocate, if I was buying I'd get the a6300 for the 4K and I don't need AF or long recording times and want to get the FF look with a SB and shoot at 50mm f/1.2 Nikkor, but people need to understand others have different needs, and that videography is classified under a huge number of sub-classifications/applications)

I have been saying this for the longest. While dual pixel is superb, the speed and accuracy of focus, may have nothing to do with dual focus. Why? Well because most high-end cameras (and many mid-range ones too), can easily manage with the speed and accuracy of focus, considering the number of focus points on the sensor. As a matter of fact, if Panasonic allows better focus transition algoriths in its cameras, it will do a very good job of focus pulling with a smartphone/ phablet/ tablet. Also, the speed in photography is something that lenses and cameras work with, together.
With better transitional software, I am sure a lot of cameras can pull focus far better. 

 

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Kind of crazy but I own all three of those cameras. I've had the 7D II for a while, got the a6300 when it came out, and the 80D yesterday. I think the answer depends on what you want to do with the camera and what is important to you. All 3 are great for video, but if you actually need 4K the a6300 is your only choice. The a6300 is also much smaller being mirrorless. The 7D II is a pro level camera, very rugged, and great for action with that 10 fps. The 80D offers a slightly smaller size over the 7d II and the latest Canon sensor. I got it as a back up to my 7D II.

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I used to moderate a huge blogging/vlogging website, and I never saw a single person complain about focus hunting. Ever. The video quality bar just isn't high enough for it to matter. It's all about the content, and fans don't give a flying fuck about the rest.

Tugela is right on with size and weight, too. The better producers might use something chunkier on sticks, but many are more than happy with a Canon S120 or some such held at arm's length. Maybe one of the newer high end p+s cams with a selfie screen.

I can see the much higher end guys liking it for the skin tones and maybe the AF, but those guys tend to shoot locked down and employ a cameraman when they're not. Also...the NX1 has damn good continuous AF already.

Canon's advantage remains its brand recognition, ecosystem, and sheer ubiquity; that'll carry this camera to success more than any special AF. And if that's really what consumers want, they'd rather buy 70D's on the cheap from Costco and EBay.

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With all due respect to YouTube bloggers, a field I do enjoy sometimes actually, it's not my circus, not my monkeys, I don't care if they buy a million 80Ds, it doesn't make it a successful product for those with a more cinematic, higher image quality benchmark in mind.

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On 2016年4月18日 at 4:20 PM, tugela said:

Actually, something like a 80D is far too heavy and bulky to be a good vlog camera. If you are going to be walking around holding something at arms length, if that something weighs 730g for the body alone, not counting the lens, it is going to wear down on you pretty quickly, autofocus or no autofocus.

The ideal vloging camera is something that is small and light. No doubt some he-man types will use it, but for most vloggers (who seem to be typically young women in late teens to early twenties) the 80D is simply too big for that purpose.

Weight is a big problem for  shooting handheld  and  for shooting first-person (VR) video as well

On 2016年4月18日 at 2:30 AM, compasiune said:

 The 80D offers a slightly smaller size over the 7d II and the latest Canon sensor. I got it as a back up to my 7D II.

yeah ,a much cheaper 80D has better IQ than the superior model 7DII.so unlike canon-style ;)

 

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