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Pistol grip 3-axis gimbal stabilizer

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@Cinegain or any one else. I'm considering buying a gimbal this year and the H2 seems the best at the moment. I really like the 2-hand handle, battery life and the footage so far seems promising. I also considered the DS1 Beholder but with shipping to Norway it's almost the same price (2-hand handle excluded).

I plan to use it with GH4 and native lenses so any setup will be under 1 kg so I don't really need the ekstra payload on 2,2 kg. But if I would need/like to add a monitor it might be worth it even though it's not in the budget at the moment. The other thing I thought about is that the ekstra weight and size over the H1+ might make it easier to get steady shots (300-400g in weight difference). Any thoughts on this?

The H1+ can handle cameras from 100g to 1200g which means I could use it with the GM1 or smartphone as well. But it's a little bit outdated already compared to other tool-less gimbals with better battery life.

Another alternative is the wait for an upgraded H1+ with hopefully the same features but in a smaller package. 

To get the best price I should order within Wednesday. There's a quarterly interest meeting of the National Bank on Thursday and as you probably know Norway is heavily effected by the oil price...

Thanks for any advice!

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An interesting thing about one of those later videos from that Japanese fella is how he counteracted the walking bounce by using the two handle accessory in a different way with a one handed operation holding it sorta sideways and diagonally, making the gimbal itself counteract the up/down bounce. I think that's the technique he used when he ran across that street and it seemed pretty damn steady.

Overall I think it is a much smarter, polished and more versatile design that can grow with you, allowing you easy set-up, a better experience and hopefully nicer results. It's much more than just being able to handle more weight. It's like both a DJI OSMO and a Ronin-M (and also remote motion control). With all the modern feats we've come to expect from handheld gimbal stabilizers in 2016.

Not sure where the Beholder would have to ship from? Pilotfly has a german branch, where you're not going to be surprised by import duties and have close-by support.

In the end you gotta weigh your own personal pros and cons. But there's a reason I haven't got any of these units yet, I didn't really fell any were at a level I was comfortable with buying one. For the first time, with the H2, I think it might be there, because it just covers all grounds. If I thought the H1+ would be ready for primetime, I would've already bit the bullet on that one, but I haven't. Stuff has to click with me, has to feel right. I wanted to get the A6300, then on paper they've sort of given me just about everything I wished for... but now that it's out, it doesn't really click with me. Would love a camera that does well AF wise, especially on a handheld gimbal stabilizer like the ones we're talking about, but with NAB around the corner and Photokina yet to come, I'm not so sure anymore. For now the GH4 will serve me fine. I'd love however to sell off some of the BMPCCs to get the BMMCC and G7 instead. We've by now all seen Simon Shasha's and Noam Kroll's work, with the former using the BMMCC in conjunction with the CAME-TV Single which has encoders as well. Tech advancement these days is crazy, so it does get better with each latest gizmo that comes out, so I feel like when I'm going with something, I can't take something last gen which I've already considered before and then did not get. But there's a steep learning curve (at these young companies) and they get constant feedback of what can and needs to be improved. Like something like the 360 yaw rotation not ripping wires, or rolling around the arm to the other side to permit the extension of the vari-angle display. It has mounting spots all over so you can use it like the OSMO with a little display to the side, I'd probably throw my BMD Video Assist there.

In the end... is that all worth it to ya? I don't know, I'm not you. I'm not really restricted by any particular budget myself, but still I like my choices to be sensible and well considered. It just has to click, so that includes the value too.

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Thanks, I really appreciate it! 

I wish he spoke english! He seems to go over all of the details and the footage looks nice too. That running video is impressive indeed. 

I agree that it's a much bigger improvement over for example the H1+. What I meant was that it's easier to hold a bigger camera steady than a small one and maybe that also applies for gimbals as well? I don't know... Anyways with the 2-hand handle it actually doesn't seem that big. It just would be perfect if I could use it with the GM1 with 15mm Pana Leica on holidays, but it's to light. And then off course the size of H1+ would be preferable... 

I guess DS1 ships from USA since it's an American brand. The shipping cost is almost 200$ for a DS1 and free shipping from Pilotfly. I have to order from the US Pilotfly site to get the best exchange currency. I would have pay 25% taxes on either since Norway is not a part of the EU. 

The m43 system is the best compromise for me so I don't really care too much for the Sony cameras yet. I like the reliability of the Panasonic cameras and the lens selection and the lens sizes. For travel I carry the GM1 with PL 15mm, PL 25mm and 35-100mm mini (great in daylight btw). That's a great setup and weighs 654 g total! For other things I use GH4 with the two pro zooms and Nocticron. I know there are better things out there, but they're also bigger and more expensive. I'm convinced that the GH5 is going to be major improvement over the GH4. If the G7 is 1-1,5 stop better in low light the GH5 is gonna be at least as good, probably better. I'm also expecting usable autofocus in video mode as all the other brands keep improving on that area.

It would have been better for us customers if he launched the mirrorless version (H1) and DSLR version (H2) at the same time. On his FB page he answered "patience will be rewarded" when asked about a tool-less H1 update. That's actually the main reason I'm considering to wait and see. He also writes that the 2-hand handle works with the T1 but that model hasn't been released yet... What could it be?

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On 18-2-2016 at 7:59 PM, Cinegain said:

Look closely and you'll see that the image on the left says 'T1' where the right one says 'H2' which I think might be more like the CAME-TV Mini 3 as found here: http://www.came-tv.com/camemini-3-3axis-gimbal-camera-32bit-boards-with-encoders-p-810.html . It connects from the center across the sides rather than with a single side arm (which however would provide the pistol grip option).

Ah, yeah, I forget for a 2nd you'd have to consider import fees either way. That... blows. I think there's definitely something to the fact that a heavier set-up has like more momentum, so in turn lets less outside influences/variables affect it. But then again, we have drones and they have to fly with the lightest payloads possible and there's some way smooth motion going on there, so it might just be how the platform is handled, how the profiles are set up and how the controller and motors go about their things. Again, I haven't had any of these, so I can only comment on what I've seen and what my gut feeling says.

I love the M43 format. I had given fullframe a thought when the 5DmkII and mkIII were a thing, but there's a couple of things... size, not just the body, the bloody lenses you'd have to throw in front to cover that sensor (that's also why I haven't jumped on the A7-series). As well as the price. Like I mentioned, I like sensible and well-considered choices, but I'm not sure spending 3000+ EUR on a camera is getting me that 3000+ worth in value back for what I do (I see that better spent on premo lenses). I do however like my D5300's APS-C sensor. I guess because it's similar to S35 and it renders nice organic looking footage I suppose. But I'm team mirrorless all the way, so no more mirrored experiences for me, I like you D5500 and D750, but I think it's best if we just stay friends. It's not you. It's me. And all that. :grin:

Yeah, MFT/M43/M4/3 (I still don't know the appropriate abbreviation), for me it is a sensible choice. You don't spend tons on a new camera. There's a plethora of native lenses in all kinds of price ranges. You can adapt just about anything. It's compatible with focal reducers. It's an innovative mirrorless system so you get great features. And one of the most important reasons personally indeed: it's just so conveniently compact. A Panasonic G7 with Zhongyi 25mm f/0.95 would weigh close to nothing and would hardly take up any space at all. Look at that (from the ZY Optics website). Would you just look at it:

1422981_1442309692.jpg

But yeah, no sensor stabilization unlike the recent A7-step-up models or Olympus. And you do fall short in terms of stills performance as well as lowlight capability. There I'd actually wish we'd see a APS-C sized sensor like we have in Nikons. If Nikon would only make a sweet trouble-free mirrorless version of the D5500. Perhaps with built-in image stabilization and 4K. But oh well, enough about camera systems in a pistol grip gimbal thread.

Yeah. I believe I did see them mention on FB that the H2 doesn't replace the H1+. It's an additional option. So I can indeed imagine them coming out with an updated H1².

I don't have any special insider's information. So I don't know what will come, what will happen with pricing or anything. Just sleep on it, really think about if you need it or just want it and ultimately do what feels right. ;)

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Nice, I didn't notice the letters in the image. That made my decision a little bit easier. 

It's nice to hear that it's just not me who love the M43 format. I'm getting really good results with the Leeming Lut + the Alexa Lut from Premiere, btw. If I white balance properly it's a great natural looking image. 

Anyways, I went ahead and placed my order. If something else comes along I can always sell it but I don't think that's gonna be the case anytime soon. 

If you haven't ordered one and want me to make some test footage just let me know. It's probably gonna be a few weeks until I get. I'm also waiting for Rollocam Hercules. Looking forward to adding some more movement in my shots!

Thanks a lot for discussing with me, It was really helpful!

 

 

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Yeah, heard good things about the Leeming LUT. Everybody seems all about LUTs these days. Not so much myself. I like it to quickly rotate through different looks (for inspiration only) to see what I like and would like to go with, but then I'd get there myself and do my own correcting and grading. I think that will get you less in trouble with pushing the footage too hard and you don't get a standard (although tweaked) LUT look ('ah, that's got to be <so and so> LUT, I recognize it'). ;) But I've seen good things out there either way.

Awesome! Seems like we're on the same page on cameras and gear! Coincidentally I also have the Hercules coming my way (magnetic upgrade, am I right!?). Still undecided on the H2. I guess I have until friday before the -15% runs out (not sure when it will, but they said they'd start shipping next monday I believe). If that BMMCC really is starting to become availlable right now, I can not imagine a much better excuse to get the H2 as well...

Exciting stuff! Good on ya on pulling the trigger! I hope you're going to love it. I think this really might be the one too. :glasses:

Motion sure looks pretty nice and it's one of the earlier tests, without him having used it extensively...

 

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If you're lucky they probably ship Hercules at the same time as BMMCC ;) With the H2 on the way that BMMCC actually seems pretty interesting... I would probably just need a monitor right? 

I think the H2 is gonna be awesome! The footage in that video also looks very nice. I will be using it mostly for tilt, pans and jib movements but the walking also seems a lot better than other gimbals. I wouldn't be surprised if the sales price is the actual retail price. Everything is on sale in the shop. Besides it would be almost as much as a Ronin-M and 200 more than Came Mini 3. I just had to pull the trigger before the Norwegian kroner devaluates even more, probably tomorrow. And if you choose to wait something else will eventually come along. 

I'm not much of a LUT man my self, mostly because I've been going for a natural look. It's so easy do overdo it with the LUT's it just looks strange and causes noise in the image. But the Leeming LUT is only a correction LUT for Cine D and the Alexa LUT is almost like a Cine D to Rec 709. This is the only way Cine D is usable for me because I'm not a colorist by any means. I could off course use Natural which is easier but Cine D is supposed to give best DR.

Here's some pictures of an angry chef. They're far from perfect but pretty good for a fast turnaround. The scene is lit with bright sunlight (just passed the window) from the side and two Fotodiox 1000 AVSL with -green filters to correct color shift. Keep in mind that I don't do this for a living. 

1. SOOC

2. Leeming LUT

3. Alexa LUT at 90% opacity

4. A little bit of saturation.

56e9259457739_angrychef1.thumb.jpg.9299b56e92596253ae_angrychef2.thumb.jpg.1636956e92598339ac_angrychef3.thumb.jpg.0e3ce56e9259a08f76_angrychef4.thumb.jpg.86dad

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Here's an autofocus-on-a-gimbal clip from my A7R2 day 1 test on the Pilotfly H1+.  Used center lock-on AF.  Worked OK but I'm sure someday we'll get Eye-AF while recording.. having phase-detect AF always keeping the eye in focus would be awesome.

 

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Hey, just thought I'd chime in here. Does anyone know the practical difference between the Beholder DS1 and MS1? I know the MS1 is smaller, and has a lighter maximum payload, but is there a difference in the operational quality?

I'm using quite a light setup, a panasonic G7 + 12-25mm lens, which comes in at just under 720g. Thinking if the MS1 is meant to be comparable to the DS1, I could save some money.

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@ThomHaig In Dave Dugdales review he states that it's not working with the GH4 and 12-35mm. He did review a pre-production model though. Might work with the G7. 

Send OwlDolly an email ask what they recommend. Personally I would get the DS1 between the two models as a lot of people says it's great. I haven't researched the MS1. I opted for Pilotfly H2 myself, which is about the same size as DS1, even though I'm using a GH4 with native lenses. 

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2 hours ago, Fredrik Lyhne said:

@ThomHaig In Dave Dugdales review he states that it's not working with the GH4 and 12-35mm. He did review a pre-production model though. Might work with the G7. 

Send OwlDolly an email ask what they recommend. Personally I would get the DS1 between the two models as a lot of people says it's great. I haven't researched the MS1. I opted for Pilotfly H2 myself, which is about the same size as DS1, even though I'm using a GH4 with native lenses. 

Please continue to update us on the H2. On paper that is definitely the better one, but my hesitation is customer service, which is huge. I heard bad things about H1 service. When things go well it's cool, but when things go wrong will someone help you out?

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The customer service on the H1+ seems pretty decent from what I've read on the Facebook group (various reports of them spending time helping people with their settings, doing remote PC adjustment of the PID settings via the SimpleBGC GUI app).  They also post and respond to questions on there.

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17 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Please continue to update us on the H2. On paper that is definitely the better one, but my hesitation is customer service, which is huge. I heard bad things about H1 service. When things go well it's cool, but when things go wrong will someone help you out?

Sure, but It's probably gonna be a while until I get it. They're supposed to ship 21th of March, but since I ordered the 2-hand handle as well is 28th of March. You probably gonna get a intel a lot sooner from reviewers, but feel free to request tests when I get it!

 

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