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Andrew Reid

Not just vinyl for hipsters! The return of Ultra Panavision 70! Film is back with a vengeance and Tarantino has a behind the scenes look for us

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For his upcoming snowy western Tarantino unearthed special cameras and 1.25x anamorphic lenses at Panavision which hadn't seen the light of day since 1965.

The film was shot on 65mm film and will get a 'Roadshow' release on Christmas day in amazing 70mm.

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I wonder what is the theoretical resolution of a 70mm film. Huge, I guess.

you can theoretically acquire 8k from 35mm negative photographic format (with modern film, low iso, perfect optics).    so theoretical acquisition resolution of 65mm negative film would be around 12k.  In practice, no lens exists that will have optical resolution capabilities to full take advantage of this.  neither is there any way of transfering this onto projection film or into digital format without losing some of this resolution 

the projection (positive) film allows even greater resolution capabilities.

 

Even for stills with the a7rii that would be great. 

 

i agree, I'd love a speed booster with colour correction allowing the full res from high end mf lenses to be acquired with the a7rii.  

 

 

 

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

I want to see a digital release version. A 4K or even 2K scan. The look will still be there. 

But Tarantino doesn't agree. A digital projection of film-acquired material is as bad as digital he says. I whole-heartedly disagree. The image stays. 

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I want to see a digital release version. A 4K or even 2K scan. The look will still be there. 

But Tarantino doesn't agree. A digital projection of film-acquired material is as bad as digital he says. I whole-heartedly disagree. The image stays. 

Very different projection technologies.

One is a pristine digital film scan through a modern digital projector and lens, likely with smaller aperture, less dynamic range, lower resolution and adjustments to colour.

The other is a 70mm film print as if it just came off the camera, projected through an anamorphic lens at insanely high resolution and the scanned aperture of the negative, being 70mm, is enormous compared to the digital copy.

I think motion would be different as well, with a slight flicker to the 24p of the film projection, compared to having zero gap between frames on the digital version.

I want to see both then make up my mind.

i agree, I'd love a speed booster with colour correction allowing the full res from high end mf lenses to be acquired with the a7rii.  

Would love to see if this is possible. Perhaps Brian can chime in if he's reading the forum. Maybe the physical size of the Sony E-mount is the limitation as the Speed Booster glass in front of the full frame sensor to squeeze the medium format lens image circle into that area would have to be pretty big.

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I want to see a digital release version. A 4K or even 2K scan. The look will still be there. 

But Tarantino doesn't agree. A digital projection of film-acquired material is as bad as digital he says. I whole-heartedly disagree. The image stays. 

I saw Pulp Fiction in a theater a few years ago and I had no idea it was digitally projected until after the show.  It looked the same to my eyes as the celluloid print I saw 20 years ago.  But If Pulp Fiction hadn't been SHOT on film, it would be another story altogether...

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

So many variables. The difference in digital cameras is the biggest one and takes us into a very old argument. 

However, I do believe we can simply scan all the film information, record them into pixels and show them digitally. Very easy. There shouldn't be a difference to the human eye if both a film projection and a digital show if both done ideally removing image degradation coming from a film projection lens, or a low digital scan, etc, 

Tarantino wants purity to the extreme. 

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So many variables. The difference in digital cameras is the biggest one and takes us into a very old argument. 

However, I do believe we can simply scan all the film information, record them into pixels and show them digitally. Very easy. There shouldn't be a difference to the human eye if both a film projection and a digital show if both done ideally removing image degradation coming from a film projection lens, or a low digital scan, etc, 

Tarantino wants purity to the extreme. 

There is a difference, because film is made of millions of small random dots that aren't even the same size. If you ever have watched a 6x6 slide projected it's pretty insane, it's a different feeling. Add 24fps to it and you get even more. But yes, nobody is going to complain, specially being negative film, 24fps and motion blur.

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I want to see a digital release version. A 4K or even 2K scan. The look will still be there. 

But Tarantino doesn't agree. A digital projection of film-acquired material is as bad as digital he says. I whole-heartedly disagree. The image stays. 

I really do hope you're right, since most of us won't be seeing this projected from a film negative - can't name a cinema anywhere near me that still does this, maybe in London.

The only thing I would worry about, is how the film transfers to digital - I've seen too many films transfered to digital (Blu-Ray being the biggest culprit) where the original has been destroyed by a very poor scanning process (mostly in terms of how it renders the grain).

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personally being in the UK and not in a major city, I doubt I'll see the 70mm print:(.  However I'd only bother seeing it in 70mm if I were seeing the first projection.  I imagine after a few runs those poor reels will have been wrecked by unskilled hands operating the projectors.  - unless a load of real projectionists are brought out of retirement for the duration of the films screening.

I have never come away from a film projected in 4k digital at a high end theatre feeling cheated.  it always feels like a proper theatre experience - particularly when the movie was shot on proper equipment.  for example I know that my Interstellar viewing experience (4k digital) was a more accurate representation of what Nolan envisaged than what people who saw the 70mm projections on their 5th, 6th, 7th pressings saw!  i bet the 20th screening wouldnt be worth a 720p scan! .  My viewing of Interstellar felt more epic than when I saw Jurassic Park projected on film for my 10th birthday in 1993! - a movie made by the best film makers, during a time when production and projection using celluloid was at its peak. 

 

  i expect for most, the digital screenings will show more of the quality of the 65mm acquisition of this movie too- since the iq wont have degraded each time the film is projected.

 

 

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I wonder what is the theoretical resolution of a 70mm film. Huge, I guess. Closer to 8k than 4k, possibly...

so theoretical acquisition resolution of 65mm negative film would be around 12k.

Of course, a lot depends on the "resolution" or graininess of the film stock.

 

Off the top of my head, the two extremes on the film resolution scale would be two discontinued Kodak stocks from the still photography world -- Royal-X Pan (1600ASA, extremely coarse grain) and Technical Pan (25ASA, extremely fine grain).  Royal-X in a 65mm format might have a resolution comparable to less than 4K.  Technical Pan in a 65mm frame would probably exhibit a resolution comparable to 12K and higher, especially if it were pulled one stop.

 

 

I'd love a speed booster with colour correction allowing the full res from high end mf lenses to be acquired with the a7rii.  

That certainly would be wonderful.  Second to that, it would be great if someone made a medium format speed booster with highly optimized optics behind the ground glass.   ;)

 

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IMAX has a new laser projection system that should outclass all other projection technologies once it arrives. Use of laser means that blacks are true blacks (aka there is zero light hitting the screen). While there IS still a place for film projection, I don't doubt for one second that laser will be able to precisely replicate the feel of analog projection should the need arise. I just hope that some day it is available to consumers because the DR would make for an excellent color-accurate image for CC work.

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Very cool idea with the roadshow and the 70mm print.

But, since they didn't mention anything about how they are going to edit it, I assume they'll do a tele-cine on it. So it is going to end up as digital anyway for the post-production process. And then digitally printed to 70mm film. I wonder what resolution they will scan it.

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Very cool idea with the roadshow and the 70mm print.

But, since they didn't mention anything about how they are going to edit it, I assume they'll do a tele-cine on it. So it is going to end up as digital anyway for the post-production process. And then digitally printed to 70mm film. I wonder what resolution they will scan it.

I can basically guarantee they didn't do that, without having to ask.. Tarantino would shit himself.

and yeah it's going to look great digitally, in some ways better than any high end digital, but I have no doubt projecting in film will add something. 

wish we could all live in Tarantino's dream world of film film film film, and that he didn't kind of scoff at the little guy using digital. He is extreme, but mostly not crazy. Excited to watch the film when it's out on DVD ;) 

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