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Canon EOS M + Focal reducer = Fullframe raw for 300$?


BrorSvensson
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I have EOS-M and am interested in your comment on the 50D.

Do you have a view on what the pros and cons are of the 50D raw compared to raw on the older 7D? (other than 7D a bit more money)

My view is the 50D is better than the 7D where Magic Lantern is concerned because the 7D uses dual DIGIC processors which seems to cause some complications for ML devs.  My reading on the ML forum is the 50D may even be better in some respects for ML RAW.  The drawback of the 50D is that it doesn't have native H.264 WITH audio which you can get with the 7D.  Of course, you can get H.264 with the 50D using ML, just no audio.  Amazingly you can get HDMI out on the 50D too.  

You can now get a 64GB Lexar 1066x CF card for $90 which will store 64/4 = 16 minutes of RAW footage.  ML Raw Viewer will then do a quick grade and write out ProRes, or DNGs, etc.  I'm now seeing 50Ds for $300.  So for $300 + 50mm "nifty-fifty" and a fast CF card for $500 you have a RAW camera package that will blow you away (blows me away).

The 50D can only do 1568×882 resolution in non-crop mode.   No PINK DOTS!  And again, anyone thinking H.264 1080p (even 4K) can hold a candle to 1568x882 RAW in color depth/dynamic range has not seen for themselves ;) Some moire in certain situations, but if not, BEAUTIFUL! You can get near 1080 in crop mode, so you'd want the 10-20mm lens.

Here's some footage from 2 years ago when there was no ML Raw Viewer and computers still too slow.  If I shot H.264 the skies would be blown out and the skin tones would have been over-saturated, a bit blotchy.  This look isn't for everyone.  Not saying H.264 is bad.  Just a matter of taste.

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Damn you Max... Now I want a 50d. Amazing colors. It looks like a vintage post card that would read Greetings from...

That blue sky reminds me of Kodachrome. Nice job. And the funny part is, like the woman in your video, I was just finishing a Bloody Mary as I watched it.

I also like how candid your videos are. You must be very unassuming or trustworthy because nobody in your videos seem uncomfortable at all.

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My view is the 50D is better than the 7D where Magic Lantern is concerned because the 7D uses dual DIGIC processors which seems to cause some complications for ML devs.  My reading on the ML forum is the 50D may even be better in some respects for ML RAW.  The drawback of the 50D is that it doesn't have native H.264 WITH audio which you can get with the 7D.  Of course, you can get H.264 with the 50D using ML, just no audio.  Amazingly you can get HDMI out on the 50D too.  

You can now get a 64GB Lexar 1066x CF card for $90 which will store 64/4 = 16 minutes of RAW footage.  ML Raw Viewer will then do a quick grade and write out ProRes, or DNGs, etc.  I'm now seeing 50Ds for $300.  So for $300 + 50mm "nifty-fifty" and a fast CF card for $500 you have a RAW camera package that will blow you away (blows me away).

The 50D can only do 1568×882 resolution in non-crop mode.   No PINK DOTS!  And again, anyone thinking H.264 1080p (even 4K) can hold a candle to 1568x882 RAW in color depth/dynamic range has not seen for themselves ;) Some moire in certain situations, but if not, BEAUTIFUL! You can get near 1080 in crop mode, so you'd want the 10-20mm lens.

Here's some footage from 2 years ago when there was no ML Raw Viewer and computers still too slow.  If I shot H.264 the skies would be blown out and the skin tones would have been over-saturated, a bit blotchy.  This look isn't for everyone.  Not saying H.264 is bad.  Just a matter of taste.

what is the maximum framerate with fps override on the 50d? is it 32 or 36?

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My view is the 50D is better than the 7D where Magic Lantern is concerned because the 7D uses dual DIGIC processors which seems to cause some complications for ML devs.  My reading on the ML forum is the 50D may even be better in some respects for ML RAW.  The drawback of the 50D is that it doesn't have native H.264 WITH audio which you can get with the 7D.  Of course, you can get H.264 with the 50D using ML, just no audio.  Amazingly you can get HDMI out on the 50D too.  

You can now get a 64GB Lexar 1066x CF card for $90 which will store 64/4 = 16 minutes of RAW footage.  ML Raw Viewer will then do a quick grade and write out ProRes, or DNGs, etc.  I'm now seeing 50Ds for $300.  So for $300 + 50mm "nifty-fifty" and a fast CF card for $500 you have a RAW camera package that will blow you away (blows me away).

The 50D can only do 1568×882 resolution in non-crop mode.   No PINK DOTS!  And again, anyone thinking H.264 1080p (even 4K) can hold a candle to 1568x882 RAW in color depth/dynamic range has not seen for themselves ;) Some moire in certain situations, but if not, BEAUTIFUL! You can get near 1080 in crop mode, so you'd want the 10-20mm lens.

Here's some footage from 2 years ago when there was no ML Raw Viewer and computers still too slow.  If I shot H.264 the skies would be blown out and the skin tones would have been over-saturated, a bit blotchy.  This look isn't for everyone.  Not saying H.264 is bad.  Just a matter of taste.

Nice shots you did there.  I too have a Canon EOS-M, and had tried the ML 2 years ago, and I couldn't for the life of me wrap my head around the process of doing the raw.  I still like the camera though, despite it's cumbersome (IMO) correcting on h.264

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I was looking for some EOS-M focus pixel information and wow, this discussion was quite a find. Though it does look like it turned into a Canon 50D love fest.

Respecting the original post--I haven't tried that particular "Focal Reducer / Speed Booster" and have always been envious of the Metabones adapters for just about every camera mount except the EF-M. Thanks for pointing that out BrorSvensson. Searching through ebay also turned up a Canon EF to EF-M "Focal Reducer / Speed Booster" that maintains the lens automation. Looks like Canon's commitment to the "M" line will bring out some more 3rd party adapters. Maybe someone will make a Micro Four Thirds to EF-M adapter that is theoretically feasible?

I've been deep into the EOSM focus pixel and shutter-bug issues on the Magic Lantern forum. What is really needed is a very talented programmer with a miserly budget for a camera to come along and fix ML on the EOSM. In the meantime there are workarounds that are actually working quite well. The shutter-bug only affects still photography with EF-M zoom lenses and doesn't show up at all with certain SD cards--like the Sandisk Extreme PRO 32GB UHS-1/U3 SDHC. Focus pixels can be dealt with very effectively in post using various tools. Oh, and jbCinC_12 -- I also tried ML 2 years ago and couldn't get a workable raw workflow but things are continuing to get better even though maxotics may have thrown in the towel when he sold his EOS-M and bought a BMPCC. I've had private conversations with him because I'm working on the the same issues the he has worked on and I too have considered switching cameras but the M has served me quite nicely. In fact I originally bought one just to experiment with ML and eventually get a 5D mark III, a few years later I've got three M's and no Mark III.

One last item--jbCinC_12, you mentioned something about a cumbersome correcting on h.264. I have had very good experience with H.264 on the M and am shooting a documentary with lots of EOSM H.264 footage yet don't have any issues with it. Could you elaborate?

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  • 2 months later...

I don't think that there is ALL-I capability in stock Magic Lantern.  You can compile a "homemade" version, and try it at your own risk.

 

In addition, you can use the defunct Tragic Lantern, which has ALL-I capability built-in.  The first version of Tragic Lantern had more controls for H264, but TL 2.0 gives plenty of control and was developed further than the first version.  I believe that there were TL builds for the EOSM as late as Spring of last year, but the TL site is gone.  I have TL builds up to December 19, 2014, if you would like to try them.

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I was looking for some EOS-M focus pixel information and wow, this discussion was quite a find. Though it does look like it turned into a Canon 50D love fest.

Respecting the original post--I haven't tried that particular "Focal Reducer / Speed Booster" and have always been envious of the Metabones adapters for just about every camera mount except the EF-M. Thanks for pointing that out BrorSvensson. Searching through ebay also turned up a Canon EF to EF-M "Focal Reducer / Speed Booster" that maintains the lens automation. Looks like Canon's commitment to the "M" line will bring out some more 3rd party adapters. Maybe someone will make a Micro Four Thirds to EF-M adapter that is theoretically feasible?

I've been deep into the EOSM focus pixel and shutter-bug issues on the Magic Lantern forum. What is really needed is a very talented programmer with a miserly budget for a camera to come along and fix ML on the EOSM. In the meantime there are workarounds that are actually working quite well. The shutter-bug only affects still photography with EF-M zoom lenses and doesn't show up at all with certain SD cards--like the Sandisk Extreme PRO 32GB UHS-1/U3 SDHC. Focus pixels can be dealt with very effectively in post using various tools. Oh, and jbCinC_12 -- I also tried ML 2 years ago and couldn't get a workable raw workflow but things are continuing to get better even though maxotics may have thrown in the towel when he sold his EOS-M and bought a BMPCC. I've had private conversations with him because I'm working on the the same issues the he has worked on and I too have considered switching cameras but the M has served me quite nicely. In fact I originally bought one just to experiment with ML and eventually get a 5D mark III, a few years later I've got three M's and no Mark III.

One last item--jbCinC_12, you mentioned something about a cumbersome correcting on h.264. I have had very good experience with H.264 on the M and am shooting a documentary with lots of EOSM H.264 footage yet don't have any issues with it. Could you elaborate?

Hi! Cool to hear that someone is accomplishing so much with these humble cameras. Do you have any work with your EOS M you can share? And when shooting H.264, what picture profile settings are you using?

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On 2/2/2016 at 7:34 PM, tupp said:

I don't think that there is ALL-I capability in stock Magic Lantern.  You can compile a "homemade" version, and try it at your own risk.

 

In addition, you can use the defunct Tragic Lantern, which has ALL-I capability built-in.  The first version of Tragic Lantern had more controls for H264, but TL 2.0 gives plenty of control and was developed further than the first version.  I believe that there were TL builds for the EOSM as late as Spring of last year, but the TL site is gone.  I have TL builds up to December 19, 2014, if you would like to try them.

I would love to get ahold of the files for TL 2.0 if you have them. Shoot me a PM. :)

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Okay.  Attached are the five versions of TL that I have for the EOSM.  I think that the only difference between them is the "autoexec.bin" file.

 

Enjoy!

 

 

tragiclantern-v31337.TRAGIC.2014Dec19.EOSM202.zip

tragiclantern-v31337.TRAGIC.2014Sep30.EOSM202.zip

tragiclantern-v31337.TRAGIC.2014Jul28.EOSM202.zip

tl2.3eosm202_2-14-14.zip

tl31337eosm6-9-14.zip

 

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