Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
markm

Sony 55 v Black Magic camera anyone?

Recommended Posts

Here is a link to a film shot in Wales on a Sony F55

 

[url="https://vimeo.com/54571154"]https://vimeo.com/54571154[/url]

 

Of course the Sony has a larger sensor can record smaller files and can shoot 4K with optional recorder as opposed to the BMC 2.5K On board recording and Sony records to 16bits

 

BUT

 

Looks like BMC footage to me. Only difference seems to be the price

Sony F55 £22,794 PLUS a recorder for 4K

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

If you only shoot 24p narrative and don't need to worry about rolling shutter.... then they may be comparable.

 

Other than that, the F55 is clearly a completly different beast and will likely be the shining light of 2013.

 

S35

Global Shutter

14 stops DR

1250 ISO base

Amazing colour spectrum

Ultra low noise

4K 60p 10bit 4:2:2

4K 60p RAW 16 bit (external)

Dual recording

240p 2K mode

Pro I/Os (audio, monitoring etc)

Sony Service centers worldwide

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep... for certain narratives and with the right glass.... You will get a similar look... Just like the F55 will push close to the more expensive F65.

 

But extra "bells and whistles" is not the right way to look at it, imho..... For some people, they are essential features.

 

One of the most overlooked of which is the service you get with a CineAlta camera. You can be shooting anywhere in the world and get fast customer service, parts or replacements.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The films been taken down now and yes it has lots of bells and whistles but still looked like BMC footage to me!

How can you say that it looks like BMC footage to you?  A BMC camera would have to shoot the exact same shots and scenes to be fair, and Cine lenses as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can see the same full plumped richness that comes from RAW in both. I watched both the F55 films that showed a huge and varied locations and lighting conditions and I think enough to asess that whatever the CFA is supposed to be doing isn't doing anything noticeably different to what the BMC does and certainly is not comparable to Vision 3 film at all.

 

Admittedly the BMC is limited in functions but who cares if you can go out and get the same or similar picture to the F55. I think onboard 2.5K is better than offboard recorder at 4K Because of all sorts of reasons to do with where we are with technology at the moment.

 

For me the BMC is a better camera that happens to be a fraction of the price.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes because I would have to buy the £4000 recorder plus over priced batteries and media.

 

I have four T1.2 Arri zeiss lenses that will fit the BMC perfectly The alternative is to buy a set of Zeiss primes and rack up another £12000 if I want their new f1.5 primes.

 

However if you want to give me an F55 with the Zeiss lenses and recorder batteries and media then I would go with the F55 because of its bells and whistles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, if you had $40k and both cameras happened to be $40k... You'd take the BMCC?

 

I'm signed up for a BMCC, looks amazing.... But come on

 

Depends if you need to spend $40k. I wouldn't spend it on a camera at all!

 

Regardless, comparing a $3000 price tag to a $40k one is kind of insane.

 

And you shoot with what you can afford, allocate funds appropriately. If you're Roger Deakins it would be silly to compromise on a mere camera.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like BMC footage to me. Only difference seems to be the price

 

Image quality is obviously very important, but the BMCC is not a camera that a DP would use on a big production. You'll definitely see many being used on big productions though, as B and C cams, or for specific scenes where they need a stealth camera, etc. but it doesn't have what it takes to be an A cam on a big production, and I'm not talking about image quality. They need it to be able to plug into the video village, record into external media, and so many other specific things, and the BMCC wan't made for that, it was made for us.

 

On top of it all, no matter how much a vimeo video looks like the BMCC to you, the F55 is a different beast in all aspects, and a much superior one I'm sure, which doesn't mean the BMCC wouldn't still be preferable for some situations or aesthetic choices.

 

It's apples and oranges really.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Image quality is obviously very important, but the BMCC is not a camera that a DP would use on a big production.

 

 

Who cares?

 

You'll definitely see many being used on big productions though, as B and C cams, or for specific scenes where they need a stealth camera, etc. but it doesn't have what it takes to be an A cam on a big production, and I'm not talking about image quality. They need it to be able to plug into the video village, record into external media, and so many other specific things, and the BMCC wan't made for that, it was made for us.

 

Who cares? Video village. Meh. There wasn't even a video village on Dark Knight Rises, it was hands-on.

 

 

On top of it all, no matter how much a vimeo video looks like the BMCC to you, the F55 is a different beast in all aspects, and a much superior one I'm sure, which doesn't mean the BMCC wouldn't still be preferable for some situations or aesthetic choices.

 

It's apples and oranges really.

 

Superior for $35,000?! Good detective work Mr Bruno :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Very constructive comments mister Andrew, but they should actually have been addressed at the original poster.

What I meant is that they're not comparable products, they're meant for totally different types of movie production. It's amazing and great for us that the image quality is as close as it is for such different price tags, and honestly I don't think an indie shooter would gain absolutely anything in buying an F55 instead of a BMCC, he would very likely get much less done on his own, but that doesn't mean the F55 is not a valid product, or even an extremely cheap one for what it (possibly) does.

Regarding The Dark Knight Rises, I think it would take much more than a video village to stop it from turning out the massive turd it is, no idea why you even brought it up...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Seriously...i would imagine if a $40,000+ camera is even an "option" for you, you're more concerned about Mr. Pitt. On paper, yes, the $35k camera with the bigger sensor, higher bit color, modularity, global shutter, higher frame rates, and 4k ability..(for another $5k) - is the better camera... for that market. The thing I never hear about is, don't you think Blackmagic could've made a camera like that? More than likely.. & then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

So granted, you can rent. I don't know of any big budget productions where the DP said, "dude. f-ck fox. I have some Alexa's at the house. Gimme 10 minutes." They rent i'm pretty sure 95% of the time. But there again, we're talking about a different market even if they didn't.. At that level, they probably look at the BMC like the defacto crash-cam replacement for the 5D2 and I would assume, because it's only $3000. The argument shouldn't be that this "5-digit $$,$$$" camera is better than the Bmc..At the end of the day, money talks. If you're even "excited" about the Bmc when the Alexa, Epic, F65 shoot raw....it means you're probably poor, lol.

..forgot to add this in, so praise the edit option...

The bmc doesn't have a production launch film like "Mobius", or "Dig" does it? Canon didn't market the C300 with random test shots of a woman frolicking around.. They launched a campaign of short films with it in its native demographic on lenses that cost souls. Blackmagic doesn't "have" to do this, but it should. We all know the advantages of raw, 12 bit, etc.. But for the simple fact that it hasn't had the royal treatment yet, i'd like to see it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Image quality is obviously very important, but the BMCC is not a camera that a DP would use on a big production. You'll definitely see many being used on big productions though, as B and C cams, or for specific scenes where they need a stealth camera, etc. but it doesn't have what it takes to be an A cam on a big production, and I'm not talking about image quality. They need it to be able to plug into the video village, record into external media, and so many other specific things, and the BMCC wan't made for that, it was made for us.

 

On top of it all, no matter how much a vimeo video looks like the BMCC to you, the F55 is a different beast in all aspects, and a much superior one I'm sure, which doesn't mean the BMCC wouldn't still be preferable for some situations or aesthetic choices.

 

It's apples and oranges really.

Oh come on. They use 35mm cameras on big productions and in years gone by without monitors or video assist. Just a Light meter and tape measure. The BMC has outputs for monitors and can be built up to look sexy if you'd rather have a sexy camera and an empty wallet. What extras do you think you need to make a feature? I mean surely the art of the DP and Gaffer have to play some role. Give me a good DP with a light meter and a BMC over a bells and whistles two hour setup and a mediocre DP who doesnt need a light meter any day.

 

Actually I don't really understand your post as it seems a little disingenuos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the F55 was built by Sony as a direct competition for the Arri Alexa

as over the past 18 months the Alexa has been used on more and more Movies and TV shows world wide.

(Homeland, Dallas, Skyfall etc)

The Alexa is now THE camera everyone is using more and more.

I spoke with Sony and Arri 2 weeks ago about just this issue at a trade show.

 

You are comparing the wrong cameras!!!

you should be Comparing the Alexa to F55 for film and TV ......not the BMC guys!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see how this converstaion is still going on.

 

The F55 is superior in every respect and that is reflected in the price.... and considering what it offers, the price is resonable.

 

The BMCC is fanatastic, but alot of DPs will need s35, higher frame rates, the extra stop of DR, the dual recording (HUGE!), 4K, 3D capablities, global shutter, pro I/Os etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Alexa and BMC both give RAW The only real differences will be the CFA In my opinion. I dont think it works well in the Alexa and after seeing F55 footage nor that either.

 

The truth is the Alexa / F55 / BMC footage all looks the same and your not going to notice any difference when you grade it.

 

Unless of course you believe in the emperors new clothes and have money to burn.

 

BMD levelled the playing field Sony will either price accordingly IE £6000 for their new offering or sell to a few who like the emperors new clothes and end up in a year or so with a very expensive camera they make a huge loss on as other manufacturers bring the technology in at BMC  prices.

 

Seriously who would invest such a large amount of money when they have seen what happened to the C300 and now the F3 and REDs repricing etc.

 

BMC all the way folks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

reason why all camera look similar is because they all have cmos sensor ...

in my opinion ccd sensors have more pleasing (organic ) color/texture rendition ....

this guy buy  sony f35 from ebay for 12000$ and image is capture by hyperdeck shuttle ...

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGsNjdY6veE&list=UUaGPZ1bDQ7ATyf357gTSEiw&index=8&feature=plcp"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGsNjdY6veE&list=UUaGPZ1bDQ7ATyf357gTSEiw&index=8&feature=plcp[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIN3NWk7MM4&list=UUaGPZ1bDQ7ATyf357gTSEiw&index=9&feature=plcp"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIN3NWk7MM4&list=UUaGPZ1bDQ7ATyf357gTSEiw&index=9&feature=plcp[/url]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh come on. They use 35mm cameras on big productions and in years gone by without monitors or video assist. 

 

Actually I don't really understand your post as it seems a little disingenuos.

 

I don't know what makes you say 35mm film cameras didn't have video assist. They didn't in the first few decades of filmmaking, that's for sure, but any 35mm camera these days or the past few decades has full video assist support.

 

Well you were comparing these two cameras in the first place, it's no wonder my post seems disingenuous to you! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...