PrometheusDM

23 hours ago, Jimmy G said:

The S1 can be manually set to shoot video in either FF or APS-C crop, as seen at the 11:15 mark in this video from the kind folks at CVP...

Panasonic S1 | In Depth Review - YouTube:

...which they claim "will allow creatives to use Super35 or APS-C lenses". However it's not clear to me (nor do they explain in that video) as to which video rates (e.g. 4K 30?, FHD 60?, etc.) allow for that choice between these two frame sizes. Also, based on that same fleeting sequence there seems to be a user-selectable Pixel-by-Pixel (dimensions also user-selectable?) aspect ratio, as well.

In all of my online investigations into this camera I have only seen mention of this capability in this video. The function is located in the "Others (Video)" menu and has apparently escaped detection by other reviewers of this camera. FWIW, Panasonic, themselves, have done a fairly poor job (IMHO) up to this point (as of this writing) in not providing prospective buyers with a full, downloadable User Manual for these new S-Series cameras.

Perhaps one of our fellow EOSHD posters already using this camera can investigate the above functionality and report back here as to how and when it actually works or doesn't?!

Panasonic S1/R manual has been available for 1 month now. https://***URL removed***/forums/post/62426156

Here is a direct link to the manual if you are interested. https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/dscoi/DC-S1/P_PP/DC-S1_DVQP1869ZA_eng.pdf

7 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah but the EOS-R doesn't have DPAF in 4K.

EOS RP do not have DPAF 4K and no 4K 24fps. EOS R do have it

On 4/24/2019 at 5:46 PM, Skip77 said:

What could Sony do that's beyond the S1 and Z6 right now? They could try 10 bit 4K internally with no crop but at the end of the day unless they do a global shutter nothing else will have an impact. Rumor has the A7SIII will come out after the A6500 and A9 new models. That puts it a year out for the A7SIII. 

What's tough for Sony is the A7SII had great low light abilities and that's why people bought it. A lot has changed since then. 

I think Sony was caught of guard by Panasonic and Nikon with the models they came out with. 

The real question is how far is the gap in quality between the A7III / A9 video and Sony's cine video line up? Quality wise that's were the A7SIII has to land. And if we are honest about it You Tube - Joe doesn't know the difference. 

If I was Sony I would make the A7SIII a true hybrid cine mirrorless camera. I would put GH5 features in it and push the quality up to Sony's cine line up. Promote it as the A7SIII cine camera. That's the only way the A7SIII will be taken seriously. 

 

What can Sony do that's beyond S1/Z6? 

Great AF, 4K60 10 bit internal and/or global shutter along with 5.76 million dot EVF is the only way they can beat S1. I doubt it will be $2500 when it's debut. By then Panasonic S1 might be closer to $2000 with better ergonomic and built quality.

I think they are caught off card by Panasonic. I don't think Sony can do 4K60 w/o crop and 10 bit internal without heat issues unless they design bigger body like S1. They might severely limit the recording time as well.

I agree with you that quality wise is where A7SIII has to land, but people are more concern about specs than compromises Sony made to reach a price point with the A7III (2.4 million dot EVF, 900K lcd, poor build quality). I suspect A7SIII is the same - 4K60 10 bit for 10-15 minutes 

I contacted B&H and Sigma, they both mentioned US release date to be end of April/May 1st.

2 hours ago, dbp said:

Do any cellphones have zooms at this point? My Galaxy S8 doesn't. That's currently the big achilles heel, I think. You're stuck on a wide shot, which admittedly looks good in bright low. Doubtful it's gonna cut it during most low light receptions. Hell, my old boss used to send me his cell phone clips to use in edits and they looked terrible once the lights went down.

No one likes any camera shoved in their face, for the most part. Unless they're drunk. That's why longer lenses are so handy for stealthily sniping shots at receptions.

Samsung A9 has 4 camera in it - wide angle f2.4, telephoto f2.4, 24 mpx 1.7 primary sensor, and depth camera. 

I think eventually we would get something like DJI Osmo Pocket Pro/2 with 1" sensor that's affordable and good enough even in low light and most circumstances.

40 minutes ago, dbp said:

Yep, all of this. It doesn't mean actual robots will film weddings. 

It means AI will seep into the industry and have a trickle down effect. An accelerated version of what's already happened with cheap hardware and saturated talent.

I'm 34, but I've been on forums like these long enough to learn about what the generation prior to mine were able to charge. The rates for basic talking head clips blew my mind! But you could do it, back in the day. And frankly, the quality was trash. A lot of those folks washed out because they could no longer command the same rates as the younger crowd, and they got blown out of the water by people with actual artistic sensibilities. You have to stay ahead of this game, or it will eat you up.

And hell yes weddings are formulaic. The videos, the photos, everything. Anyone saying otherwise is full of shit. I've produced enough of em'. I've seen enough from people all over Canada and the US. Slow motion walking through the trees and kissing to some goddamn Tony Anderson song. Seen it, x1000. AI can and will whip those up, and weekend warriors will undercut, and people WILL laugh at the old rates, cause they don't have to pay them. The wedding industry preys on the idea that weddings are expensive, and people should expect to pay alot. Photo/video has benefited from this for years.

 

I'm in the same age bracket. Great mind think alike ha!

Years ago you can make a career just by taking decent SOOC exposure from film. With the invention of DSLR, taking decent SOOC isn't enough. Recent tech even make things even more easier now with eyeAF tracking, and EVF allowing WYSIYG. Now we have animal tracking. Alot of niche of photography are  very difficult to make money now as a career that was once a viable career (journalist, magazine photographer).  

Technology won't replace cream of the crop photographer/videographer with good marketing, but it does enough damage to low and midtier market where most of the clients are.

None of the stuff I've seen are that impressive for me to be so naive it can't be imitate or duplicate by sophicate AI software, basic human operator, readily available quality education, and affordable gears.

7 hours ago, jpfilmz said:

People will always pay for someone to focus in on that aspect of a wedding if they want it done right no matter what the picture/video capture taking box is.  My focus is documentary style wedding production and cell phones or fixed ceiling cams cannot make it through 8 - 10 hrs a day of video recording through different environments and locations. Even taking photos would't work.  Imagine someone with a cell gimbal phone invading the alter the space of the bride, groom and pastor just to get a close up of the wedding rings.   I'd slather that type of customer experience competition every time.  By all means have at it....more differentiation for me.  

It's like to see AI and Robots endure following a bridge and groom around for 8/10hrs a day in multiple locations indoor and outdoor on weddings shoots.  

 

 

I think you are too fixated on having an ACTUAL robot to the filming. We aren't going to need to have robot filming/photography to be disruptive. The disruption will come from both hardware and software.

Imagine AI software that allow you to import all the video and images and it will analyze all the scenes, generated multiple draft of final edited video with music, transitions, title. It will be able to copy another videographer's editing style and apply to your videos.

This combined with affordable camera and useful features such as DPAF & affordable gimbal will allow any weekend warriors to do videography as a side hustle and undercharge the full timers. If I spend 10 hours shooting and the software will take care the rest, I have no problem charging less.

I have work with alot of wedding videographers and have seen alot of the final edit. The videos are very generic and formulaic. I would have no problem doing it myself as a weekend warrior let alone a sophisticated AI software. I would definitely raised the bar even though I mostly shoot stills.

I think you are underestimating the combination of human operator and sophisticated AI software able to produce quality works and undercut the competitions.

I can definitely see the perfect storm happening when the recession hit and even people with 4 years degree unable to find a job (there alot!), people sick of working for min wage, job loss from automation (automated car, factory worker, job taken away from robot) and so many affordable quality gears (imagine DJI Osmo Pocket Pro version with bigger sensor sub $1000, mic, LED light ), sophisticated AI software that cut significant editing time and plenty of free and premium education out there. The quality will rise significantly while the pricing goes down.

4 hours ago, currensheldon said:

Yep! Purchased one and have had it for a week. Initial impressions are very positive. I have never written a review on a seller's website before but felt compelled to do so for the S1. Here is what I wrote:

I have used a variety of mirrorless cameras, starting with Sony A7s and A7rII and then the GH5 and most recently the Canon EOS R. The only camera that Ive held on to long-term is the GH5, so I was very excited when I heard Panasonic was releasing a full-frame mirrorless camera. Now that it has arrived, it is truly the most professional, robust, and beautiful mirrorless camera Ive used. I bought and tested out the Canon EOS R, but found it frustrating ergonomically and with hindered video specs (big crops, no stabilization, etc), it required a lot of compromises. It took beautiful images, but for video (which is what I mostly do), the GH5 outperformed it in every way.

Next to the EOS R (and definitely all the Sonys), the Panasonic S1 feels like a true professional camera. It's a bit heavier than the other mirrorless cameras, but since I mainly use Sigmas 24-70, 18-35, or 50-100mm, once you have the lenses on there, it's not a huge difference. Its actually more comfortable because the grip is so nicely designed.

REALLY looking forward to the 10-bit, V-Log update in a couple of months as well as the Sigma EF L adapter in a few weeks. Will really help make this camera shine.

--

To expand on some of those points, it really does feel like a truly professional camera. While there are plenty of mirrorless cameras that get you great results, I often feel like I am fighting the camera (like the EOS R) to have it do what I want. You can do it, it's just not that much fun. Same with Sonys - they just don't feel good and I (personally) don't enjoy using them. I also really think the Sony mirrorless and 8-bit (FS) image is seriously flawed - and that's my #1 consideration for any filmmaking tool. 

I'm in no way a Panasonic fanboy, but after trying for years to use Sony and Canon, the former with a compromise on image quality, the latter with a compromise on usability, specs, and performance, I'm finally satisfied in Panasonic world with the EVA-1, S1, and GH5. Great color, incredible image, great usability, incredible customization, all the tools and all the required specs and approved codecs. Their mount system is a mess, so looking forward to them hopefully streamlining that in the next year or two. 

Highly recommend the S1. 

 

If nothing else, this test really shows the pretty wide gap in color and image quality between Panasonic and Sony, in my opinion. S1 looks fantastic. 

wha the f***

I read your review and thinking it's me that write that review! 

I have never used Panasonic camera or switch to any brand before. Always Canon for 10 years. I thought about switching to Sony for the eye AF and better sensor, but there are always flaws I found it annoying such as the ergonomic, EVF, screen resolution unless I get the A9.

The more I use this camera, the more I realized how much thought Panasonic put into this camera. It make my job incredibly convenience. This camera is not perfect but definitely show Panasonic listened and execute unlike Canon and Nikon. For everyone that say this camera is expensive, I say it's well justify. I think it provide excellent value especially if you get free battery, free grip, and extended warranty.

If this is their first camera, I'm excited to see the refinement for future camera. Whatever they do, you can expect them to push boundaries and raising the bar higher 

As a big Sigma Art fan, I'm looking forward to their version of 24-70, 70-200 and whatever they can come up for the L mount.

I bought the camera for $2250 with free battery, battery grip and 3 year warranty. I'm selling the grip so it's $2000 camera for me.

I really think it's the best camera I've ever owned. I had Canon 6D, 5D IV, EOS R and tried various camera Sony A7III, A9, A7RIII.

I primarily use it for still photography. Beautiful EVF, ergonomic, great IBIS, and no banding. The AF is really good for still and the inclusion of eyeAF is much better than Canon EOS R but still no match for Sony. It also track animals.

It has alot of little things I like - quick toggle for AF-C/AF-S/Manual, quick lever for silent shutter, manual focus magnification, backlit buttons, focus bracketing, and custom modes.

This might be the first camera where I can set the setting for each scenarios I commonly shoot with - timelapse, portrait, landscape, etc. This is so great to have!

This does not have the best AF compare to Sony but it's more than usable as is for me. EyeAF is much better than Canon EOS R. I'm sure it will get further improvement.

I considered all of Nikon, Sony, and Canon offering. I ended up with Panasonic S1 based on my priority and needs - dual card slot, great EVF, good sensor, IBIS, ergonomic.

Here is a AF test done between Sony A7III vs Panasonic S1

Also, I just find out ISO 50 is a true ISO. https://www.l-rumors.com/diggloyd-panasonic-s1r-has-true-iso-50-not-a-faux-iso-kudos-to-panasonic/

This is pretty amazing for increase dynamic range.

On 1/17/2019 at 12:14 PM, salim said:

That said, I don't love Sony cameras and that's probably what you're referring to. They're good gadget but never feel like a tool you want to use. I have the 6000 and the A7Riii. 

I was debating between waiting for Sony A7RIV/A7SIII or Panasonic s1. I ended getting the Panasonic S1 for $2250 with free battery and battery grip after I came to the same realization you made.

Sony will always make a tech gadget instead of a tool for creatives to use that I enjoy using. The A7III took many short cuts to get to the $2000 price point - poor EVF (2.36 million dot EVF), poor LCD that's not fully touch screen (900k dot). 

Panasonic S1 has great ergonomic, best EVF 5.76 million dot, best IBIS, 4K60, 2.1 million dot but of course their AF do not rival Sony.  Whatever new sensor from Sony, I'm sure it will be share with Panasonic and Nikon.

On 4/13/2019 at 5:33 AM, dbp said:

My biggest worry by far is AI and robots. Our industry is going to be absolutely gutted at some point,  I think people have no idea. People talk about the DSLR revolution changing things....that's absolutely compared to what's gonna happen, IMO. 

 

I completely agree with you. I think AI will significantly change multiple industries including photography and videography. You may not have robot shooting weddings for a while, but it will impacts in other subtle ways from shooting to editing.

Once you have AI able to analyze all the clips & images and edit multiple drafts for editor to fine tune to final draft, it will be disruptive. They might be able to analyze someone's else clip and edit your image/video clips similar to it.  If there are more and more finding videography and photography easy, it will drive the price down while the production quality goes up. 

In photography, there is already eyeAF, animal AF, object recognition that's making it easier for general public to use. If you can take good exposure back in the day, it would mean you can make career out of it. Not so much now. In some field of photography, you can't make much doing much in that niche (wildlife, journalist, etc) than before.

I already see some impact with AI & robot in other field. Automated driving car will disruptive such as taxi, truck drivers, etc. 

Robots from Boston Dynamic will replace alot of factory workers, fast food workers, kiosk, etc. 

Back to the topic, I think now with the proliferation of affordable high quality gears, availability of quality education and a job force that left many people to do photography/videography, it's going to drive down the market.

I do creative as a side job and charge more than some of the pro in my area because I value my time and skills. I see more and more professionals and weekend warrior charge less because they can't compete on quality so they compete on price. I am continue to be impress by works of non professionals who aren't doing this for a living. Creative is a constant hustle and not everyone want that.

7 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I agree its a great camera especially for their first full frame. I can understand it from a photography perspective but for their video centered GH cameras they really need to get on the phase detect band wagon. 

I've seen some amazing video done with Panasonic S1. I don't think the AF is an issue unless you track sport movement. It's more than enough for most people need. 

This camera has more features than my skills.

On 3/29/2019 at 3:58 PM, thebrothersthre3 said:

No doubt the S1 is pretty awesome. 

However the OP stated Canon specifically. Its a given that a high end Canon camera will have A+ auto focus. Panasonic kind of dropped the ball not adding phase detection. There excuse about it degrading image quality seemed pretty far fetched. I've never heard anyone not buying a Canon camera due to the DPAF causing IQ problems. 

For stills, DPAF, Sony, Nikon all use phase detection that cause banding issues under certain lighting environment or raise the shadow.

This may or may not matter for video, but it's a concern for me since I primarily shoot stills. I've seen in various group and forum that show those artifacts make it unusable. This happens in EOS R, Sony A7/R, Nikon Z series camera. Sony A9 is the only one that doesn't exhibit this with the fast read out. It's rare occurrence but it does happens.

The easy way is to follow the pack and adopt PDAF at the expense of image quality. They won't ridicule on the net anymore.

I actually think it's bold of them to adopt a non compromise approach to image quality and go against standard practice. They are constantly attack for their choice in sticking with DFD. Despite all these ridicule, I found the latest version 1 FW AF to be usable. There is no pulsating and it's fast. It focus really fast in low light and track well enough for non sport activity. If you are using it for photo, it's a non issue while have no banding issues.

Sure the AF may not be the best, but it's more than usable since it's combination of features is the closest to being a perfect camera for me. It's also one camera I've been the most excited for. I've been a Canon users only for 10 years that was interested in Sony A7III, A7RIII, A9 etc. All those camera has compromises in some way that goes beyond features.

Panasonic S1:

• Class leading EVF 5.76 million dot 120 hz
• Dual IS (class leading IBIS FF 6 stops)
• Dual card slot (first dual XQD/CFE & SD card slot combo)
• 4K 60 30 cropped (1st FF to offer it) | unlimited 4K 30p
• EyeAF and animal tracking
• Ergonomic and weather sealing with button logically lay out
• Fully touch screen LCD
• Back lit buttons
• Focus bracketing 
• High resolution mode 96 mpx and 187 mpx for 47 mpx sensor. 
• Timelapse
• Fully touch screen LCD 
• Dynamic range beat Fuji medium format, Z6, A7III, A7RIII at low ISO with clean ISO 12,800.

For a $2500 S1 camera with free battery and grip, Panasonic offer a lot of class leading features. I can forgive it for not having the best AF. I'm sure they are working on FW to get it even better. 

This is their first FF mirrror less camera and it shows they really tried. I have no problem supporting a camera company that gave me such a bang for my money. There is no perfect camera, but what you are willing to compromise on. This come the closest perfect camera for me.

Quote

New Leica SL and CL firmware adds compatibility with the Sigma and Panasonic L-mount lenses and adapter

https://www.l-rumors.com/new-leica-sl-and-cl-firmware-adds-compatibility-with-the-sigma-and-panasonic-l-mount-lenses-and-adapter/

Problem solved.

13 hours ago, kye said:

It will be a while, so buy a temporary camera to use in the meantime.  Make sure its well specc'd and robust so it lasts long enough to fill that gap.

That's why I'm Panasonic S1. If something revolutionary, I'll buy it. If not, I have a very capable machine for $2500 that accept EF lenses

On 3/27/2019 at 8:11 PM, webrunner5 said:

You sound jelious of Sony. Canon is back in 2008. Nikon is kicking their ass. Fuji is biting the other butt cheek. Canon and is going to be Casio down the road if they don,t wake up. Casio was king shit also back in the day. So was HP and Kodak. Everybody bites the dust, man or company I don,t give a crap who you are.

You misunderstood me. I am brand agnostic. I use Canon for 10 years because everyone has it and my lens library and now switching to Panasonic. I buy various glass from all manufacturers not just Canon.

I couldn't care less if Canon, Nikon, Sony kicking whose butt. To me, it's only a tool. I don't own their stock or have any victory when one company do well.

If Canon goes out of business, I can see why. They are very complacent, but they also business savvy enough to focus things that will sell well - M50, EOS RP, glasses etc. They just aren't catering to the pro yet.

I really want Sony and everyone else to do well. They are so close to making the perfect camera. Intangibles that everyone else got it right (Panasonic, Canon, Nikon) Sony couldn't. It should be easy to make a better ergonomic, fully touch screen LCD and redesign menu. I would be totally switch over to Sony. If the A7RIV/A9 offer a bigger body with all these features, I would switch over to them. I'm sick of Canon. 

In regard of Sony fanboyism: I see alot of people bashing on Panasonic S1 paid FW article on DPreview, and most of them has Sony gears. I remembered Sony PS3 vs Xbox debate. It seems they grow up and bought camera. It's really petty

I am tire of seeing Sony fan boy:

• always interjecting them self in non Sony related gears post. Bashing other companies
• always show open box Sony toys 
• proclaiming their eyeAF to be the best. How did we manage to shoot before eyeAF?
• dismiss ergonomic and menu issues

At the end of the day, no one care what camera you use just the results.

On 3/26/2019 at 10:00 AM, thebrothersthre3 said:

Sigma already has a lot of nice full frame glass, it was a good move. 

Alot of Canon users still think Canon L lenses are king but I think the mystique is gone when it was just Canon vs Nikon. I think all current lenses manufacturers are very capable including third party lenses such as Sigma & Tamron. 

My last 4 lenses purchases has been third party lenses. I had only Canon 24-70 2.8 II that is still Canon. I would be happy with any trinity lenses from any company.

Given how much Tamron and Sigma has progress and my shooting preference now compared 10 years ago, I realized Canon doesn't serve me anymore. I am more excited about Panasonic S1 than any camera that came out in the past 5 years. 

MC-21 adapter is coming out 4/19. Perfect timing.

On 2/15/2019 at 3:31 PM, mat33 said:

I was considering the S1 but its a bit of a strange release.  How many advanced/pro photographers are really going to dump their Canon/Nikon/Sony cameras/lenses for a Panasonic, the big 3 all have pretty compelling hybrid mirrorless offerings now and while the S1 is a mighty fine camera, does it do enough to get people to switch and commit to the new system?

I am interested in it as a still only Canon shooter.

This will accept EF lenses via MC-21 adapter. Sigma EF will have native support via FW update. For $200 more than EOS R, this offer dual card slot (XQD/CFE), newer sensor than 5D IV/EOSR with better ISO and hopefully DR, IBIS, better 4K, better EVF, better video options. While Canon lenses are very nice, I don't shoot 50 1.2 or care too much about their $3000 28-70 F2. 

ALL FF mirror-less lenses are expensive but I expect Sigma mirrorless lenses to be affordable.