MrSMW

OM-1 is better than OMD E=MC2 EMiii etc Just make the next camera OM-2…if they survive and the leaked pics do indeed show the use of the OLYMPUS brand name with the company name, bottom right. I hope it’s a decent bit of kit as the industry needs success stories not more criticism of yet another new camera that doesn’t hit the spot for the majority. Z9 and A7iv other than a few niggles seem to have been well received recently, some others less so.

Not so sure about that Kye… I just need AF tracking to work for anything where someone is walking towards me. On a wedding day, the total time this happens for us about 2 minutes out of 9-15 hours coverage. Those 2 minutes are critical stuff though; entrance of the bride/bridal party, exit of the couple, confetti aisles, sparkler aisles and maybe some exclusive couple stuff. This is where DFD is totally unreliable. Sometimes it will work near faultlessly. Other times not at all. Mostly it’s somewhere between. I have come close so many times to just biting the bullet and trading it all for something more reliable just because of this specific issue. Ultimately though, I have decided against and instead found a workaround as the rest of the package is too good to junk. The workaround is on camera, hotshoe mounted action cam as backup. OK the footage won’t be the same quality and some (hopefully most!) of the time, I will be able to extract a 3 second in focus clip from the 5-10 sequences per wedding where I need to use AF tracking. But if not, I’ll just have to cut in some action cam footage creatively so it doesn’t look out of place. After all, I have been cutting in the same size sensor drone footage for 3 years so why not? The rest of the time, DFD is pretty decent/no issues. However, I am going back to manual focus for anything that isn’t the 2 minutes of every job that needs AF tracking in order to eliminate 100% any potential for even slightly OOF shots. I’m also ditching IBIS for 90% of the day and going back to freestanding monopod as that eliminates that weird sideways jump glitch that IBIS sometimes throws up! It will almost be like working like a proper pro… Even a Canon R5c would make sense to me now 😬

I’ll have another play later, but deliberately chose a tricky bit of footage! I like Nitrate, but their Portra 400 is not even slightly close to film with S1H v log. Neither is the Velvia which is a vibrant film stock. The Nitrate version is very flat and yellowy/green. It could be they are all miles off with the S1H camera pack… On the other hand, the way you can adjust the log footage is reckoned to be better than the equivalent Lumetri controls and my (limited) experience is that is true. I will play with both later, your @hyalinejim LUT and Nitrate in general…

OK, had a play with your LUT plus a couple of FilmConvert alternatives: Premiere, S1H log footage The order is: 1 = The Portra Lut as provided, no tweaks 2 = The Portra Lut tweaked...albeit, I brought the highlights down too far 🤪 3 = Nitrate's version of Portra based on S1H log settings no tweaks. Err, a bit purple innit?! I wouldn't call that very 'Portra'! 4 = Nitrate Astia no tweaks 5 = Nitrate Astia tweaked 6 = Nitrate Velvia tweaked 7 = Nitrate Astia best I could get it 'globally' ie, without any masking skin type tweaks etc + with S 35mm grain 8 = As 7, but + FF 35mm grain (7 = the closest I have got to obtaining the look I am after for my own work...but is still a work in progress)

Yes I agree. The 'problem' with judging colour science with screen grabs or photography, especially in side by side comparisons, is that your brain doesn't have time to adjust. If it's an entire movie or short film and has a specific colour, tone or whatever, we accept it much more easily, even if the colours are actually way off in regard to reality. This is especially evident in sci fi stuff like; The Martian, Mad Max, Dune etc where none of the colour in the entire move it exactly 'real'...but it becomes 'real' to us very quickly. I've looked at a few wedding films of a couple of folks I really rate and watching those, everything looks Captain Amazeballs. But when I have done some screen grabs and looked at those as individual pictures, I like it a lot less. We need to look at these things in isolation IMO, ie, the entire film needs to gel, same as a set of images needs to do the same. That's what I am working on myself, - a film grading style that is not too heavy handed, but is mine and ditto a photography grade that is similar with both complimenting each other.

Just ordered one and it will be here next week... I've never had much success with this type of thing, but am hoping that on my 4th attempt... Started with a GoPro 5 Silver. Didn't last long. Tried the DJI Go, two of them in fact. Didn't last long either. DJI Action? Best to date, but sold it as I wasn't using it how I'd intended, though it had some potential. But, as above in my original response to this thread, I've decided to get one for a limited, but very specific purpose and that is as a voice activated, hot shoe mounted, back up for AF tracking sequences to my S1H. My typical wedding day coverage is between 9-15 hours. The ONLY times I need any form of AF tracking is; entrances, exits/confetti, waiting staff bringing out plates and the couple walking towards the camera, so about 2 minutes of 9-15 hours. I have been using C-AF for everything and it's mostly been reliable, but not 100%. As we all know, AF and especially tracking is the Achilles heel of L Mount video. Well I have decided to remove it from the equation and take all uncertainty out of the equation with the following steps: 1: I'm moving my S1H back into a mostly freestanding monopod role and eliminating both IBIS and AF out of the equation as I'm going fully manual AF...other than those few moments each job where I need tracking and then I will re-engage C-AF and instruct the Action 2 mounted on the hotshoe to back it up. I'll still use the S1H sometimes handheld, but if I can, it will remain on the monopod. The use of C-AF (S1H) and the Action 2 (hotshoe mounted) will be limited to only entrances/exits/confetti. 2: Ditched trying to make the S5 work on the gimbal. It's my third attempt with a gimbal and to be honest, I still hate it but think I can make it work. I almost sent it back 2 days ago...but I have stuck my Sony ZV1 on it, which makes for a much lighter package also and I'll only have to mix in a few seconds of footage here or there, so reckon I can live with that. The use of this combo will be limited to tracking waiting staff, BTS other suppliers at work and a bit of stuff with the couple only. I'm also going to use the Action 2 mounted in or on the car to add some additional material to the drone coverage of venues and local area etc. That worked really well with my first GoPro travelling around the Faroe Islands. I think this time, the use of 'non-pro' cameras can be made to work for my purposes, mainly because they will now have a very specific and limited role to play. But we'll see...

I am also currently down the rabbit hole of trying to find a consistent end result to log that I like. This level of science is way beyond anything I have tried which has ended up as being FilmConvert Nitrate. It’s giving me the look I was hoping for. Still playing with fine-tuning a baseline that I can apply to all my work because yes, I do want a consistent look across all my work. With your examples, the comparisons of the girl, as with most of these side by sides, my pick is always, “somewhere between the two”. The Panny one is a touch magenta and yours a touch yellow/green/washed out. As above, somewhere in the middle would work best for me. And this is one of the things I like about Nitrate and that is you could just use the ‘film stocks’ just as they are, but you are encouraged to play. The problem I always find is ALWAYS skin tones. Without resorting to tweaking the skin tones of every single clip, there isn’t much with an ‘aesthetic’ that keeps them as you’d want without skewing everything else. That again is why something ‘in between’ can work well, a happy compromise. Or just tweak the skin tones in every damn clip… Well done with the effort made and even if it does not end up producing the end result you are looking for, you will have learnt so much from the process.

Must be a reason surely why they have chosen to throw away the heritage of over 80 years of the brand name OLYMPUS. I’d hope so otherwise it’s not the wisest move… Say someone bought Ferrari and then had the bright spark idea to change the name to ‘FR-Cars’. Err, wot? Unless the new company does not have the rights to use the brand name?

I’m not sure why they changed the established brand name in the first place. I had a pair of EM5mkii’s with f1.2 and f1.8 primes for my video work around 6 years ago. In fact, must have been 6 years ago because when I moved to France they were what I was using. Liked them at the time, though I was less serious about video than I am now. Seriously considered the EM1mkiii for video work and it was only the lack of 4K 50p that killed it for me. Otherwise in the fence right now in regard to any/all future camera systems and I think Panny would have to bring out my ‘ideal spec’ S2H for me to consider anything this year. I’m interested to see what both the OM-1 and GH6 are capable of, beyond any initial media hype (good or bad).

Actually, it's a bit of both... The reality is, it's their wedding day, not our shoot, but the more we can make it a collaboration, the better the chances at capture are. I try and educate my clients in this regard and with a discrete subtext that I have a reputation to uphold so would rather not try to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear if I can avoid it, as ultimately, it will always be a pigs ear, just a slightly better pigs ear...but this is secondary to their day. There is a middle ground but we need to be on the same wave length in advance otherwise it's mainly reaction over action. Some clients...most actually, get this. Or can be sufficiently educated to get it. Others though, the princesses (and princes) are the worst to produce anything for as they are usually acting like manic mental cases all day long...and if that's how you act, that's what it looks like in the video!

Well I should be able to have it! 😜 Most anyway... OK, the size/weight could stay as that doesn't really bother me. The sensor is already in the S1R. Does 4k, but in 8 bit only. Internal ND already exists in several cameras, for stills and video including the Fuji X100, since the F, if not previously? The decent/reliable AF has to be phase probably... The full frame/zero crop is processing power or something isn't it? Not very far off really, ie, it's all doable in 2022 I'd have thought? Then just make a shrunk down version for the 4/3rders and we'll all be happy 🥰

Sounds like most wedding videos... (Mine included) 🤪

Speaking of cuts, I remember when the Tom Hardy Mad Max came out and it had something like 10x as many cuts as the original. Could be much more than 10 actually. I presume it’s been a gradual change with most movies…

Olympus as OM Systems has come back from the grave with this so-called ‘wow camera’ and maybe…and I hope it will be, - I want them to succeed. But if it doesn’t (succeed), they are dead. My fear with the GH6 is…and I am no tinfoil hat wearer, is that unless it’s a success, it will be the last. If it is the last, how does that bode for Panasonic’s entire camera division? The full frame line is hardly selling compared with the likes of Fuji & Nikon, never mind Sony & Canon. I want Panny to succeed for 2 reasons: A: I’m invested in the kit. Not so invested I couldn’t get out if I had to, though I’d take a hit. B: Other than the AF issue, for so many, it could the best system available. Except their marketing is head in the sand terrible so if the worst happens, they only have themselves to blame. I like the underdog and will generally support them, if I can, over the bigger players, but in order to do so, they do need to make a product; I need/want, is of a minimum standard/spec and actually make some kind of effort to deserve my commitment. In terms of kit, Panny/L Mount has been (mostly) achieving that, but as a company beyond that, I don’t care for them as I did previously with Fuji. Ditto Sigma, I like them, their product and their company ethos. I like it that the head of the family makes launch videos he presents himself. I don’t care for Canon’s policies. Sony to me is just a faceless corporation taking over the World. Nikon…are a mystery. I prefer them over the 2 above but I don’t know why… Perhaps because they have became a bit of an underdog over the last couple of years, mainly in regard to mirrorless? Ultimately, the bottom line for me is quite simple; “does it do what I want it to do?” Will either of these new models do something/anything that my current system cannot? If so, what and is the cost to change worth it? Well I have few needs/wants beyond what I already have… My dream camera is: 1: The S1H shrunk by around 10% in size & weight. 2: Sensor size increased from 24-47mp. 3: Some form of internal ND. 4: Decent/reliable enough AF tracking. 5: Full frame 4K 50/60p not cropped S35. If an SH2 only had 4:, I’d buy it in a heartbeat. If it had some or any of the rest, bonus. I hope the reveal of both of these new boys is not a disappointment, even if neither are for me, simply for the sake of the camera industry at a wider level.

Thanks all so far. I've been playing all day with mixed results but the best method for me seems to be: 1: Add gamut LUT to all clips. 2: Manually correct all clips individually to be 'about right'. 3: Add a global layer and add Nitrate to that and then use the Cineon thingy to reduce it's strength with selected film stock. 4: Select the individual clip and twiddle in Lumetri scopes until it 'looks' right. 5: Then make a screen grab and look at that outside of Premiere. 6: Go back into Premiere and do a final tweak if needs be. I've got a look almost about where I want it so tomorrows test will be to try a whole load of different, but typical clips I might use in a film and then apply the above process. Side by side with my best Natural profile, for the first time, I think I do have something that looks better... I'll keep at it...

I might be interested in one or the other (paired with the Panny 10-25 and 25-50 f1.7's) purely as my indoor/outdoor filming set up...but ONLY if the tracking AF is absolutely on it. I like Olympus or whatever they call themselves these days (so I suppose I like the old company Olympus) and the spec otherwise meets my needs. The OM-1 has hybrid AF but the proof will be in testing and the real world whether it's any good as it's essentially the same system that Fuji use I think? The GH6 though we still have no idea. If it's just tweaked DFD, then the camera is not for me as it's essentially a 6.5k cost less the trade in on the S1H and one, maybe 2 lenses), so 4.5k+ investment. For similar or only slightly better AF, but trading FF for 4/3rds? Err, no. I don't have much hope for either really, for me or for anyone else other than a handful of GH4/5 upgraders because in these media hype driven world of "THE AUTOFOCUS SUCKS", I think you'd be mad to release anything in '22 that wasn't at least decent. But what do I know...

Had a play, liked it. Bought it, got a completely different result 🤪 I don't dislike the completely different result but with the free trial, I was using it on a layer on top of gamut LUT corrected log. After purchasing and installing the specific camera profile, it didn't need the gamut LUT correction but worked instead on the 'raw' log footage. I'll have to play some more...

FC has a free trial I wasn't aware of so I'll give that a whirl and see what happens.

Oh you definitely would not want to blow it up/print it any larger than the original output size. The original full size file at 5076px long edge is a little better, but really this could only be book/album or smaller printing. Maybe higher rez 8k would be a lot better?

How/what do you use in Film Convert?

OK, I have decided to try and make log work rather than the Natural profile I have been using to date for both the S1H and S5 footage. There's a ton of (often conflicting) info out there and I'm sure I'll get a few varied responses here, but it's worth the ask. For context, I shoot weddings and am looking to produce a filmic (as in slightly nostalgic film-like) cinematic end result and tend to prefer a more muted and pastel palette, but with an emphasis on subtle rather than "I slapped on this LUT I bought off ETSY" look. I've been using the gamut conversion LUT which quite a few rave about as possibly the best starting point, but then where? I'm also trying to avoid simply buying a whole lot of shit just to try it and some of it is quite pricey just for that purpose. I use Premiere if it makes a difference. I read good things about Film Convert, but maybe it's just hype, I don't know. Interested to hear and hands on experience from S1/5 log users. Cheers in advance.

S1H graded 4k 50p log screen grab, saved as a TIFF, exported to Lightroom and saved as a 50% size long edge size reduced Jpeg with a small amount of sharpening. Pretty sure I could shoot and edit an entire Wedding Film and simply pull off any number of stills in order to produce a complete set of stills with identical aesthetic. If I didn't want the dramatic crop, I could simply set the film size to say 3:2 before making those screen grabs. Click the image for a larger view. OK, it would not stand up to a side by side equivalent still shot on a 24mp camera, never mind my 47mp S1R...but as most never print and stuff is mainly viewed on nothing larger than a laptop...

Yes, more interested myself in say shooting 120fps at 240th second shutter speed as that more or less coincides the min 1/250th my stills camera is set at. Coupled with 6 or 8k, could be interesting as it’s already pretty decent from 4K. The boundaries and possibilities are certainly interesting and there is a certain appeal to focusing on just one form of capture and then producing 2 sets of results from it, with identical aesthetic. At the moment, I can’t quite get photography and video from the same shoot to have exactly the same look, so deliberately keep things different in a number of ways such as 3:2 pics vs 2.35:1 video, a different but complimentary grade to each being the main ones. I just need a full wedding day where I am booked to shoot only video and then I can pull out the stills for a full set of photography results…but of my 40 or so booked clients, about 5 are photo only and the rest hybrid. I suppose I could just pull from one of those jobs and will have to settle for that.

I started offering video on top of photography some 15+ years ago on the basis I never knew what type of muppet would show up 😉 To be fair, not all videographers were muppets, but few were compatible shall we say... So yes, totally in house ever since other than the 3 clients since who have breached contract, 2 of which were fine, thwe other, muppet. On the day, the couple hated him from quite early on and by the end of the day... (and don't ask about afterwards...). I've tested at 4k and 6k and 4k was better from the S1H. Motion blur is the biggest issue with 50 or 100fps shutter speeds... But I reckon I could get away with doing zero photography on the day and just producing screen grabs from 4k footage. I don't think a single person would ever know. I will test that theory soon, perhaps this year even, but the simple fact is I enjoy photography. I am as much photographer as I am filmmaker so why would I want to not actually take pics? Otherwise I just become a technician. Anyway, what was this thread about? Aesthetics. To keep it on topic, I'm going to be exploring the aesthetics of 4k screen grabs this year...

I've had guests turn up at weddings before with an enormous pro grade shoulder camera. I've had guests turn up with backpacks full of cameras, lenses and lighting... Some introduce themselves and ask if they can shoot alongside me all day. Err, no. Others just get on with it as if I'm not even there, indoors or out. I had one Leica toting dude directing bridal prep a couple of years back before I had a quiet word with the couple and said it's him or me, choose now. Nothing to do with ego if their camera is 'bigger or better' than mine, but when you have a professional image to uphold... It's no different to me walking into a chefs kitchen and saying, "Hiya, I've brought my own knives but I'm just going to use some of your ingredients the rest of the day if that's OK with you?" And that's the polite version, - imagine just wandering into the pro chef kitchen and just using their ingredients without a word as if you owned the place. There's bold and there's absolute fuckwittery... Fortunately, that kind of thing happens rarely, like 1 in 30 gigs maybe, but from time to time it happens. Once, it was the parents of the bride. Yep, blanked me from the start and acted as if they had been booked. Bride went along with it because they were paying but when I asked her why she booked me she looked at me funny and said, "because my parents are shit". At one wedding with 9 guests, 2 of them turned up and tried to shoot it like pros all day and when discussed with them, told me they could do as they wished. Imagine, one quarter of the people there were capturing the other 3/4. That was a fun day. I could write a book and one day, maybe I will 😉 People eh? Messing with my aestheticism 🤨