MrSMW

Ouch

It took me a long time to be persuaded of the advantage of raw vs Jpeg, but once I gave in, I saw the light. I suspect if in camera storage and subsequent drive storage was not an issue, I might be tempted. If I was to earlier in my career rather than the twilight, even more so, but I have decided against. Very tempted with the new Zr, but in the end I have made the decision that I am better putting my effort elsewhere. There are 3 areas for me where I could invest my time & energy. 1. Tech 2. Creativity 3. Marketing I choose 2&3 going forward because 1. is as good as it needs to be for me.

Probably and until Resolve etc support the new codec. But then I've seen some side by side comparisons with Nraw where the reviewer is saying, "look at how much less noise there is" and I agreed, there was less, but also, "look how much better these skin tones are" and I thought, really? have you got your labelling wrong because the Nraw looked better in your side by side examples. So I guess until folks you know, love and trust start showcasing or you can get your own hands dirty, the jury is still out on just how good it is beyond the hype. My own personal jury has ruled against it despite thinking the camera looks fabulous, the screen is killer and the pricing excellent, but no way am I going to be using those file sizes. Lumix, get on with the S1H2 please.

Someone above was asking about the data rates I recall. For Red Raw ‘Lite’ they are as follows: 6048 x 3402 : 59.94p (3780 Mbps), 50p (3160 Mbps), 29.97p (1900 Mbps), 25p (1590 Mbps), 23.97p (1520 Mbps) Compared with S1II 6K open gate at 200Mbps it really hits hard. As much as I love this camera (the Zr) now I have had more time to think about it, I’d want to use that Red codec and both the 25p and 50p options but that’s 8-16x the data rates…and that would be nuts for my kind of work. Nikon is still the best lens platform however at this time.

Mid season report. Actually, I am nearing end of season with just 2 more jobs to go this year until June next…which is quite normal for me. The TDLR is I almost love it… Why ‘almost’? I’ll get to that… The Good = The body design actually. Yes I would rather Lumix had moved to a body style more like the FX3, but I guess they thought that might scare photographers who expect a hump. Whatever the reason, it’s not as innovative as it could have been and despite not having a top screen, really is like a smaller S1H in the hand and IMO, that is a good thing. In my hands, with no battery grip or any other adornment other than the smallest Senheisser mic, it feels just right in terms of size, weight, build, comfort, ergos. It’s a true hybrid. It would be even better with an internal electronic VND, but hey ho, maybe that will come with the S1H2? With 5x C1-5 custom settings and a simple photo-video switch, it’s fabulous for hybrid work. I don’t even use all 5 photo and 5 video settings, but have it set up basically as: landscape photo, portrait/candid outdoor, portrait/candid indoor and low-light, all with a starting f stop, aperture, WB, ISO and equivalent matching settings for video so it’s actually only one flick of a switch to flip between video and stills in any given scenario. Brilliant. The sensor. 44mp. Perfect 👌 for me sweet spot between the more traditional 24mp and the 100mp of the bigger MF sensors. Suits both photo and video. Video files and capability. I shoot 7.2k 30p open gate and the file sizes are not huge or slow to work with. With baked in conversion LUT, SOOC I love them. Yes raw would be even better, but an almighty faff and overkill for my needs. The open gate allows any number of crops, 30p a 20% reduction in speed on a timeline and the 7.2k quite a bit of scope for punching in etc. Having said that, not fully edited a finished production yet but I have checked and edited a few bits here and there and it’s even better than the 6K I was using before which itself was better than the 4K from Lumix FF cameras so thumbs up. The Not So Good = Battery life is pretty poor. I’ve always scoffed at people reporting poor battery life and never experienced it on any camera. Until now. It’s not great, but a spare battery in my pocket at all times is how I now roll and is what it is. AF accuracy for video is good but not Sony level. Ditto for photo. Having come directly from an A7RV, I’d give the nod to the Sony for ultimate outright stills quality and AF, but the S1RII gets the nod for video and body. I don’t think there is anything else other than I have a pair of them matched with the 35mm f1.8 on one and the 85mm f1.8 on the other. The S9 is on lighter duties of video only, mostly longer than clips and sometimes even full length ceremonies and speeches and has only overheated once and that was on a very hot day in direct sunlight. The S1RII by the way, I have never even had a warning and has never got hot to touch, - just the usual warmth you might expect shooting a thing all day long. I may replace the S9 next year with an S1IIE for a bit more robustness and utility, but waiting to see if any S1H2 appears before doing that, if I do that. Almost certainly will trade the Sigma 28-70mm f2.8 for the new Lumix 24-60mm f2.8 next year as I think it will suit my needs better and appears to offer better AF and detail/rendering. S5II soldiers on in its static role and just does what I need it to do. I do need to find a way to get rid of the battery grip and the heavy tripod however and working on that… So ‘almost’ love it. It’s the battery life and good but not stellar AF plus the less than exciting body design that drops it 2 points for me so I’ll give it an 8/10. Along with the Z8, probably the best all round hybrid camera available today? At least for my needs. Taking into account lens options and prices.

Anything that is one less step of faffing about is a good thing in my book which is why I bake my conversion LUT into my files in camera. But what if I wanted to change my conversion LUT? I’ve never wanted nor will ever need to and so it’s one less layer on my timeline. I’m ‘only’ on an M2 chip on my MacBook but no speed issues editing 6K timelines.

Maybe next year… Currently on a 13 Pro bought as a refurb a few years back and it’s about the right size for me as I travel a lot and a Mini is too small and Macbook a pain unless I am actually working. The 13 does everything I need it to do but I’d like a better camera or rather more lens options so…

Found a flaw. A big one. Price to change 😂 Just costed it and it came out at around 15k to purchase everything I need even using used prices for some of the gear and with trade in for all my L Mount gear not much over 1/2 of that, it’s not happening…which is fine as what I have is great. Just wrestling a bit with that S5II/biggish lens/battery grip/heavy tripod conundrum, but I’ll work it out and not pollute this thread any further with dirty Lumix talk. The Zr though I think is THE camera of 2025, especially considering the price. It depends on your needs of course but it pretty much nails mine and I didn’t think it would, but then again, Nikon have been on a bit of a roll lately and in the hybrid mirrorless world, might just be the system to beat right now…

I wonder how soon with a firmware update they might bring the new RED Raw ‘lite’ to the Z6iii and Z8? I guess not for at least 3-6 months after the launch of the Zr in order to not hurt sales… It’s taken me 3 whole jobs to get my S1RII’s dialled in (note to self, never make any fundamental changes mid season, ever again) and for hybrid work, easily better than the Zr… …but the Zr is comfortably better than my S9 and I think at least matches my S5ii and these two are the ‘weaknesses’ in my lineup. ’Weakeness’ in the case of the S9 as the Zr has it well and truly beaten (IMO) and in the case of the S5II because in my specific use case, it’s attached to the 70-200mm f4 which is bordering on being a bit of a lump by my standards and needs the battery grip due to battery anxiety for long takes and that lot requires the use of a heavy duty tripod. I’d prefer no battery grip, a more compact and lighter and faster (f2.8) lens…such as the Tamron 70-180 and a lightweight tripod. Clean sheet today, I’d build a system based off a pair of Zr’s and single Z8, because my ultra compact 4 body Lumix set up, can be beat. I haven’t found a single flaw yet in the Nikon set up, but still searching…

I was going to say the same thing! My neighbour has a pale blue one but he won't sell it to me...

Agreed and one of the reasons why as much as I like the look of the new Canon, the lack of IBIS is a no go for me and if that puts me in the camp of being a non-serious filmmaker, 🤷‍♂️ I also do not want to and will not rig anything up so the micro hdmi I could not care less about.

Yes I think Techart do but they are quite expensive at something like 400+ and I do need AF for some of what I do, but I need it to be highly accurate. The weakness of the old Lumix cameras such as the OG S5/S1H/S1R was forward tracking AF when ideally you needed a stopped down aperture, crop mode and some tweaks to the tracking to stand a chance. Since the S5II, not an issue, but even if there is an M to L Mount adapter with AF (and I have not been able to find one), I would not trust one to do this specific job above any better than the old Lumix system. The rest of the time, I don’t need AF and at 400+, might as well just have a cheap AF lens for this purpose. The Zr looks very interesting however as I always suspected it might. Enough to warrant any kind of flip, is too early to call and there is so much to consider such as… Zr stills mode vs S1RII stills mode I suspect is a win for Lumix being the sensor is 20mp larger and has a mech shutter. Video probably also the Lumix, especially as it has open gate which I shoot in all the time and Nikon does not…but probably can and maybe can in a future firmware release because it’s the same sensor as the S1II isn’t it? Red Raw ‘lite’ makes the Zr very interesting but where it gets even more and most interesting to me is I could build an even more compact kit, both bodies and lenses and tripods, than I currently have. Anyway, 6 or so months to consider and by that time there will be used Zr’s on MPB (so I could at least try one with their 14 day return policy) and Lumix may have brought a more cine-orientated camera to market than the current offerings as maybe, just maybe, they might ditch the current format for any S1H replacement…??

I’m looking at M-L for my current system but that won’t happen for about 6 months or so even if I do not flip to Nikon because my season is over in less than 2 weeks so other than some play time (and nothing really compares to actual work) so too soon. I didn’t know there was an AF adapter or rather I think there is for Nikon but is there for L Mount? It would be useful but not 100% necessary. If I went Nikon, I’d go E Mount though as it would make more sense as all my glass would be adapted. I have looked at every cine lens going and based on; price, size, weight, sharpness, character, shorter than normal focus throw, close focus distance, they are a clear winner for me. I have some final manual focus tests to do with my AF Lumix lenses next job first but other than having just one camera designated to AF duty, currently my S9 with zoom, I’d prefer to go MF on my hybrids as I’m not 100% happy with the AF hit rate with pics and stickiness with video…another area where based on my experience with the Zf, Nikon is better than Lumix and it can pick out faces at something like less than 3% of the screen which is bloody good!

I’m considering it myself… Seems to get a pretty long run time out of a single battery and overheating despite not having any active cooling doesn’t appear to be a problem. Perhaps I should have waited before going all in on Lumix 🤪 I still want to see what it can do for stills and would want to test it first, but a trio of these might work as I have the adapters for the Sony lenses and the Tamron zooms are the best in my experience. I’m moving towards a pair of Thypoch Simera C’s also and as these come in native E Mount, also has appeal going fully Nikon. Love the RED colour science from what I have seen and the camera itself including that rear screen is what I have always wanted and hoped Lumix might do. I still think what I have is super great, but always open to other options if they might suit me better and trimming down even further to 3 small bodies and just 4 lenses has a lot of appeal. 6-7 months to think about it and meantime, Lumix might pop out something similar and that might swing things back in favour of L Mount. Certainly not rushing into anything or blindly jumping ship but musing on options…

Cool stuff. I look forward to trying it later this year when less busy as Lightroom is my go to for stills, but I would like to get out of Adobe in 2026. 👍

Exactly why/how I am shooting the S1RII; 7.2k 30p 3:2 open gate and *horror* no VND and allowing the shutter to go into even the thousands, because 1/60th is too slow for most stills. If there is any chance of banding such as LED’s, 1/50th here in the EU fixes that. Having said that, not pulled any stills yet, but based on shooting 6k 30p @ 1-50th I know it’s going to be better.

Not that I have tried it yet, but post-season, for the first time, I am going to as storage is cheap and why not at least try the full capability of the camera?, good point, the data rates on Lumix has always been good!

Which is exactly how I’d use it with Tamron zoom’s, the: 20-40, 28-75 and 70-180 f2.8’s.

Admittedly only looking on my phone but I wouldn’t know which is which unless I was told. At the extreme, I am sure the RED camera has a marginally better image/latitude, but for 99% of the time for 99% of real world users needs (the latter of which is not RED’s market of course)… The 2 best things this camera has is the image quality using the RED raw 12 bit and that screen.

I'm not sure I agree... I think some folks expected Nikon to take everything from RED and simply dump it in a Nikon body and to then charge 20% of the price of a RED. Was never going to happen. Who would then buy a RED camera going forward if they could basically get it all for a fraction of the price? Virtually no one and they would have cooked their golden goose. What they have done is made a RED-lite camera (arguably more Nikon than RED) that can either act as a B cam to a RED user, or something for the Nikon user to use alongside other Nikon cameras they may already have such as the; Zf, Z6iii, Z8 or Z9. and give them a taste of RED, if not the full-blown illusion of shooting something much more than it is (the 'Creator FX3 effect'). Or for the minimalist, low-budget filmmaker (or content creator) who fancies a bit, but not full on, RED colour science and 'RAW-lite'. I've watched a few reviews now and I'd definitely have gone for this (subject to overheating and battery life tests) for my needs as a hybrid shooter. In fact a pair along with a pair of Zf's (a pair of the new black & silver models) for a pretty compact, capable and fun to use set with a super-nice image output. It's not a full-blown cinema camera and I do agree, the choice of placement for the card slots is bloody awkward (as it is for my S9), but that rear LCD more than makes up for it for me. Now if they could just get the spec of the Zr into a Zf body...

Ditto. I see this new Zr as more comparable with the S9 than anything else within the Lumix lineup. It’s build by all reports is a notch up and the rear LCD on another level. It’s a ‘red cinema colour’ Nikon camera though rather than ‘RED in a Nikon body’. I like it and would have one if I was in the Nikon ecosystem, but nothing I’d switch to or build a system around. And as a 50:50 hybrid shooter, vs the S1Rii, it’s not even a conversation.

Between the two, the new Canon and this, obviously if you are in the Canon ecosystem or with Nikon, the choice is obvious, providing either of these things can do what you need them to do. I think they both look the part, but neither of them really suit my needs so still perfectly happy I went full Lumix, and even if they had been Captain Amazeballs, I still wouldn't have jumped. If I had gone for one of them, I'd have gone the Nikon route, but only if I'd stayed within the Nikon body, adapted E Mount glass camp where I partially previously was. I am happy they exist even if they don't tick all my boxes.

OK, the new Canon looks good, despite the spec not yet fully known and I suspect the Nikon ZR will also be competitive so Lumix, over to you, - how is that S1H coming along because the time to pop it out would be immediately after the other kids do otherwise you risk all the newly found brand hoppers, hopping in their direction?

Stills to micro SD

Absolutely. I could not work without a camera with great stability and I mean great, not merely OK. If it can be achieved digitally, I’m OK with that but yes, Lumix is the best I have seen and experienced. I have my S9 set up to be ‘gimbal like’ with both mechanical and digital IBIS, but it’s not reliable enough for consistency and next year I am going to pick up (for the 4th time 🙄) a gimbal, except this time it won’t have a camera that needs balancing, ie Pocket 3.