MrSMW

...and photography, though most appreciate the latter. There's been quite a bit of negativity and still is out there in some quarters, re. Nikon as a brand. Fair enough, in the earlier days of mirrorless, they were not quite the co-leading player as they were with Canon in the former DSLR days. When I started shooting weddings 20+ years ago, it was Nikon or Canon with Canon taking around 2/3rds of the sales. Today it's; Nikon, Canon, Sony, Fuji and Panasonic with Sony being the biggest based on pure sales and probably also on image/marketing with the younger end of the market. Nikon along with Panasonic, seems to have developed a slightly fuddy duddy image which I think is a bit undeserved and I think it's because they haven't approached their marketing in quite the same way as say Sony or even Fuji. Fuji obviously went down the nostalgic route with some of their designs and film sim approach and Sony the 'YouTube Gen' and Canon seems to bob along based on legacy as does Leica. But not so old Panny Boy and Nikon have suffered I think by being less active than some others despite having some exceptional products. The S1H and S5ii, my own personal weapons of choice in the hybrid video arena are amongst the best available. Nikon produced the Z6ii which is right up there still in its class, the Z8, the Z9 and most recently the Zf, all exceptional top of their class acts. RED for me as a brand though, is a bit mixed... I think it is a bit of it's time... As someone said above, a few years back it was all RED MEGA GODZILLA XXX and had a certain appeal to a certain market, but that's not any kind of widespread appeal or dare I say, very mature. So I think a toned down, more youthful, more left field, side brand, could be good for Nikon on one side of this acquisition and on the other side, whatever the tech is that they can utilise. It should be interesting for sure. But if they are going to make any camera with a red body, they need to make sure it's a matte red, not a gloss one.

I don't mind so much what they do as my requirements are primarily for hybrid kit. I could make...and it would work very well, having a 'cinema' camera from Nikon to replace my 2x Lumix hybrids in that role as my 2x Nikon stills (purchased and used specifically for stills) are actually hybrid cameras (Zf and Z6ii) and could pick up some of the slack/act as B and C cameras to a principle video unit. Currently my set up = 2x video + 2x stills, but 3x hybrid works equally as well and the only reason I have not continued with that set up for 2024 is finances. Z6iii could potentially make that reality as could a Z9 (but I've ruled out the Z8 due to battery life, though any Z6iii would probably need a battery pack for my needs...) I have zero idea though whether any RED tech would make any difference to my needs, but probably not... 6k 50p internal though, full frame and I'm in. That's really the only thing I am interested in right now that I do not have access to. Z9 has 8k of course but slightly overkill for my needs but future-proofing and all that, is a possibility...

I want a Nikon Z6iii RED Phoenix now just because of the name! But probably too soon…?? The Z6iii must have been in development for a while now and should be appearing fairly soon… I suppose it’s not unrealistic for them to add another codec at this time, but unless something has been cooking behind the scenes for some time, it’s probably unrealistic? I am still very interested to see what the Z6iii might be, even if it’s the non RED Phoenix edition as part of my possible wholesale move back to Nikon for both my stills (current platform) and video needs, for 2025.

Why? You planning a moon mission? Just trolling 😉

There is one thing in this acquisition of RED that I am sure of and that is all future Nikon cameras will remain black. Even if they have any kind of badging that reads RED. Joking aside, I could see a 2 tier camera here: Nikon Black (line) and Nikon Red (line) cameras. The same bodies, DSLR and box style, but with different levels of tech with Black being more stills/hybrid focused and Red being more video.

I would hope so but possibly/probably too late for me as I don’t have the luxury of waiting to find out as I need to work this year, last year and the year before within the system. I’m not being in any way facetious John as I am sure you will appreciate, but it doesn’t help with most/any manufacturers in this industry who play their cards quite close to their chests before suddenly announcing, “ ta da, our latest lens”. Brand specific strategic planning isn’t always easy when you have such specific needs as I have! Did I make a mistake going L Mount? Kind of, but then there weren’t any other real viable alternatives at that time…but at the same time, any/all could provide what I needed, but it’s really only in the last couple of years that the really niche items that work for me, have come into existence. A long, relatively lightweight and compact at least APSC, but preferably FF fast zoom. Tamron E Mount. Only player on the planet! There’s workarounds of course, but it’s complicated and niggles with every system and combo, but E Mount adapted to Nikon Z is I think, a bit special. For my needs. I’m happy with all my kit for 2024. It is easily the best set up I have ever had. EASILY. Could it be better? On paper spec-wise maybe but not by much and for me going forward and making any changes for 2025 and onward, it would have to be because it is at least; smaller, lighter, even more ergo friendly and without sacrificing any performance…and possibly gaining some. Such as my interest in 60mp+ sensors and 6k 50p internal, because that opens up opportunities to carry less bodies, smaller and lighter lenses, compensating with cropping and pulling stills from video. Leica SL3? In my dreams… The simple reality is the maths doesn’t work even if I had the beans…and a crucial lens is still missing from that line up. S2H could change things, but the glass for me will always be the sticking point for me with L Mount in the future. Or rather the combo of bodies and lenses.

Going to revise my OM-1 to include and possibly prefer the XS20 from Fuji because yes, not quite as wide or as long with that lens choice, but as a compact package with arguably higher spec and capability in quite a few areas... Threw in an 'average sized' FF, the S5ii with the Sigma/Leica 24-70 (because there is still no option for the Sigma 28-70 which is slightly smaller but the Sigma/Leica 24-70 still smaller than the HUGE Lumix 24-70).

Sounds very sensible to me. Unless it’s an asset stripping and rival preventing intention in which case possible short term gain, but probably little beyond that all factors considered.

The main + points for me are: 60mp = great ability to crop and even in APSC mode, that’s still a more detailed 26mp file compared with a FF 24mp. Tilt screen. Yay. Not a flippy flappy. Double yay. Smaller & lighter. More yays. PDAF = yay. The negative points for me = €7k (but bodes well for something similar around 1/2 the price from Lumix?) and no option for anything like either of the following; Canon’s 24-105mm f2.8 Tamron’s 70-180mm f2.8 A lens similar to either of these is THE fundamental weak spot for me with L Mount.

All I know is I want a Nikon BASTARD now.

All I know about overheating is this: Sony ZV1 on tripod, indoors, ambient around 25-30c = approx 20 minutes max and it's cooked. Lumix S1H on tripod, direct sun, 40+ in the shade = either the battery or the card will run out first. The obvious conclusion (in general) is if you need reliability in this department, a heat sink at least is a must and ideally, a fan. Or live above 66° 33'N.

Same for many of us Kye, but pertaining to our own needs and we often use this place as both a sounding board and place to ramble and go down rabbit holes. And that's all good. I'm in a place where I have been frustrated with the tools since about 2010 because for my specific needs, nothing really existed that was 'perfect for my needs' until around 2020/21. But that then coincided with 2 years of Covid that caused so many issues, one of them being 'sending' me on a tangent I would not have otherwise gone on. That tangent is called L Mount. Great video specs, but the reality has been not a single body from Lumix, Leica or Sigma that has met my needs and only a couple of lenses. Chasing the holy grail? Nope, because both the bodies and the lenses 'perfect for my needs' exist with 4 other manufacturers. So why not just bin L Mount lock stock and barrel and just flip to one of those? €€€€€ or lack thereof in '23 and '24 and quite probably '25. Regret L Mount? Regret is the wrong word and for the video side, I can't fault it. S1H + S5ii. For pure stills, can't fault it. S1H. For my specific hybrid work though, that is where it falls short as the combo of body and lens options I need (NEED), are too big and too heavy for the the duration I use them for. I can get the result out of it I need, but the process is far from ideal. So my answer to my own personal frustration/conundrum, has been to keep only the L Mount kit I absolutely need for my video work, and invest all of what I sold with some cash, into a Nikon + adapted E Mount solution for my stills. My 'ideal' still does not exist. As above, that would be the Sigma FP-X and the contemporary lenses. My 'perfect' set up...except the body does not exist and possibly never will. I can do it with Canon with the least amount of kit, but with the largest units and most cost...and a cost I cannot afford. I can do another version totally in E Mount and it actually has a lot of appeal, but again, cost. Fuji offer everything I need now and has HUGE appeal, but again, cost. Nikon also have it, combined with E Mount and is at this time, by far and away the most affordable route. It could be my standalone option next year, but we'll see. In the meantime, like you and many others, I muse over options and that's cool even if some folks don't like it!

Oh I get it Kye. I’m just musing along various trains of thought more than anything but always with at least a nod to the OP and the post. For sure if I did not need to earn a living from my kit, OM-1 with 12-40mm f2.8 would be my one and done right now. Something longer I keep on a shelf but bring to that safari adventure, but otherwise, other than the lack of dual ISO, it’s a brilliant little thing.

I suspect there would not have been a G9ii of they had not done it in existing FF S5 body… I will be surprised to see another unique M4/3 body from Lumix going forward… No idea what the official sales figures are, but I would not be surprised if it’s been a steady downward decline in sales of both M4/3 bodies and lenses. We know that overall sales of all cameras is down over the last decade, especially at the lower priced and more compact end of the market. Logic and basic economics suggests to me if the market is in decline as I believe it is, then so is investment. For my needs, we have already reached ‘peak camera’ in various forms such as a system exists for me now with; Nikon, Fuji, Sony and Canon, but sadly not within L Mount. That’s 3x FF brands/systems and 2x APSC with small compromises that make little to know difference between FF and APSC, but M4/3 is too big. For me. For my needs. YMMV. For me personally, the current conundrum and potential future one, is how much smaller and lighter can we get this stuff without sacrificing performance? For me, switching to a (much) smaller sensor is not a viable option and neither is swapping out an f2.8 for an f4 or something even slower. But none of it matters as I have very good options for this coming season that suit me very well and all I am personally interested in for the future is can I get the same performance out of a smaller & lighter set up? Probably… Can I afford to do it? Maybe… Am I going to do it? Almost certainly, but not in ‘24!

If only the 60mp FP-L had: IBIS 4k 50/60p A tilt screen No banding with stills under certain lighting conditions. It would be my forever system. The f2 lenses are gems and the f2.8 90mm can easily crop for all my needs well past ‘150mm’ with 60mp. I know there is an aftermarket option for the tilt screen, but it’s not enough to sway me as there are just too many compromises for me. But if Sigma do bring out another and it fixes at least 2 of my above 4 ‘issues’, everything gets packaged up and sent to MBP. But are Sigma going to even make another camera ever again or is it just lenses now?

That would be interesting as they stated officially there would be no more small (or compact anyway) cameras. But there are indeed some very valid FF body/lens combos now that are not exactly massive and bigger/longer lenses can be compensated for with cropping, ie, larger sensors and AI etc... Sony A7RV for instance is basically the same weight as my S5ii and Z6ii, but smaller and with 2.5x the sensor size. They can be had for a little over 3k euros from reputable dealers with warranty used in 'like new' condition and when you compare it size-wise with say the OM-1 M4/3 camera, it's spec and real world capability are just nuts. With E Mount, there are also the largest range of smaller lenses from any other FF manufacturer. I went Z6ii with Tamron 70-180mm f2.8 myself as the best compromise of cost vs size/weight vs outright ability for my needs, but could easily have made a case for the A7RV with the Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 which in APSC mode produces a more detailed 26mp file at an equivalent focal length around 40-110mm so a bit shorter, but I could make that work because I could crop a bit harder still and really, only I would know. M4/3 is up against it IMO though. Always has been. Ever more so. It's advantage was size & weight (or lack of) and with older stuff, that can still be the case, but the move forward that many have needed on the tech side, have come at the cost of it's primary appeal. APSC is still a good shout though with Fuji and Sony leading the way. Canon I don't think have the lenses and no one else is really in the game. Sometimes, a clean sheet is the answer, but for most of us, pro or otherwise, we can't easily do that.

“All I want is the perfect camera”. I hear you. We should add the word ‘system’ after the word camera because there is too much emphasis on the body, but if the glass is not there… The best F1 car on normal road tires is a nicely painted tin can. I wish M4/3 could work for me as it’s primary appeal is the size & weight but the reality is the kit I would want is the bigger stuff, the OM-1 or G9ii and the 10-25 + 25-50 zooms and we’re talking as big as FF with a number of performance deficiencies in comparison. Discounting MF, at FF we have everything I want and need, but at the most weight, size and cost. APSC still seems to be the sweet spot for me, all factors considered and I am pretty sure that with a clean sheet and a reasonable budget for 2024 (I have neither) then I would go back to Fuji who have come good since I left the system at the end of 2020. 2021 the XT4 was the new boy and was just about where I needed the body side of the equation and they already had the glass and since then, Tamron joined the party. Fxxking Cxvid. If that arsehole had not come along, I would still be a Fuji dude. At heart, I think I still am.

With respect Matt, look at the use case. The FF S5 is slightly smaller & lighter than the M4/3 GH5, but this is now rigging it out. I suspect even the OM-1 is verging on the ‘plump’ side of the equation for Mr Kye, though personally for me it’s a good sweet spot of capability vs size, weight and handling. And then there are the lenses… S5 + Lidar, may as well go S5ii or for M4/3, the G9ii. I can’t speak for Kye but I suspect this stuff is all getting on the larger size. Other than the lack of dual ISO (I thought the OM-1 had that but maybe not then) a used EM5ii looks great value at only a couple of hundred on the used market. How important is dual ISO @kye ?

Well secretly… I had a pair of EM5 ii’s for a year for my ‘pro’ video work and used for some ‘pro’ photo, looking at going even smaller and lighter than Fuji X APSC. But in the end decided that using that P word, although the output was good and loved the size, weight and build, it was not quite ‘P’ enough for my needs. When the OM-1 came out, I trialed that and once again, loved everything about it except for that final X amount of P’ness. (Do not read that out loud). If however, I wanted a hybrid system and not a working P, I’d invest in a small system based around the OM-1. Probably with the 12-40mm f2.8 as my main lens and something longer if I went on safari or was interested in birds. The feathered type. I am very much interested in the featherless variety, but from within legal parameters. I do not wish to ever become a person of interest to the feds. There is also the current OM-5 which is kind of like a smaller, lesser OM-1, but then may as well go for a dirt cheap used EM5 ii. And then there is also the super stylish Pen F, but not sure what video capabilities it had…

The artist formerly known as Olympus enters the chat.

I had a guest do that at a wedding a couple of years back. Could not see a thing and totally trashed the shoot! Lasers, smoke and balloons 🤪

Yup; body, grip and lens, all used from MPB!

Ha, considered that very thing recently, ie, having that camcorder in a purely static role, but then came to the conclusion, I may as well stick with my S1H with battery grip (3+ hours so far more than my needs) and with the 70-200mm f4 on it. Massive overkill for I need it to do, which is essentially ceremonies & speeches, but based on trade in and then purchase of a used camcorder, makes no sense, so sticking with the static S1H paired with roaming S5ii approach for my video needs. For 2024 anyway. We'll see at the end of the season as there are various other options I might consider going forward...

I have had a play but not really come up with anything I like. Tried various LUTS I have used for video but somehow it has not quite translated over to stills. I found that for certain subjects under certain lighting scenarios, sometimes the things worked and sometimes the result was awful. In the end, I binned it and kept on with my old faithful of batch editing on LR import, all the raw files from any shoot and then just individually tweaked images before spitting out the lot as a set of finished Jpegs. I get the appeal of a look straight out of camera, but IMO, Fuji still do this best. Nikon also have an option for it, but again, it's a bit of a faff and not set up like Fuji. Where Lumix have an edge though is in the available crop modes, - there are more than anyone else such as 65:24. The latter can look stunning if you shoot for it ands by shooting Jpeg + raw, have the benefit of seeing and capturing in the panoramic crop, but being able to change to anything in post within the 3:2 raw file. I wish Nikon had this aspect ratio available in camera.

I understand. It's a shame bridge cameras didn't really take off... The Sony RX10ii I had was great with its f2.8 24-200mm zoom and the current (?) iv goes up to 600mm and has s-log. But they don't seem to have captured the mass market appeal for whatever reason. And speaking of the digital Bolex, that never worked out but there is a big market for 'retro', - just look at stuff such as the Fuji X100 and Nikon Zf, - folks love 'em. I'm all for modern hi tech spec in olde schoole body styles and it's a shame there isn't much in the 'camcorder' market.