newfoundmass

I needed 5 rec lights minimum, so this is no bueno

This talk of a great image makes me nostalgic for the OG Pocket Cinema Camera. Nothing I've owned since has come close to it. 

I don't miss having to rig it up though! 

6 hours ago, chadandreo said:

what applies to one person doesn’t apply to everyone. 
for interviews in which the subjects move around, good AF is invaluable, especially if the production decides to shoot with a more shallow aperture than f8. 
 

the way people have responded to cinema cameras adding AF, reminds me of when people thought seatbelts and abs weren’t important. 

That's a really foolish comparison. I am fine with AF, it's great. What I don't like is how people act as though it's a must have, especially in a cine camera. People discredit cameras because of it. It's silly. 

As far as your scenario, I've shot close to 100 interviews and have always used manual focus. Most productions I've worked on manually focused, too. Everyone is different, but I wouldn't depend on it. 

AF isn't really important, it's just people now write off anything that doesn't have good AF because of YouTube and YouTubers thinking everything, including cine cameras, should be marketed and catered to them. So it's become "important" in a marketing sense, but a cine camera really doesn't need AF and most people probably shouldn't rely on it when using a cine camera. 

It's not IBIS but throw this on a cheap shoulder rig and you can definitely get great handheld footage. 

24 minutes ago, crevice said:

It lacks a ton of cine features? It lacks BRAW. There is 1 feature. What else does it lack? It has dual xlr with phantom power, 10 stop ND, better internal battery, dual SD card recording, 4:2:2 10 bit, 4k 120, tracking auto focus, and dual gain 16 stop sensor.

It lacks the resolution and frame rate options, anamorphic modes, RAW, and codecs that the Pocket 6K Pro has. And it costs more than twice as much. These are major features that productions want in a camera. 

If you don't see why this is a far more superior value than the C70 I don't know what to say. 

11 minutes ago, crevice said:

Do we not care anymore about the actual inside of cameras anymore? Last I checked the C70 has a 16 stop DGO sensor found in a $10k cinema camera. It also has 10 stop of ND vs 6 stop. 3 hour battery life with no need for a battery grip. Far superior mount in the RF. It also has a button for every single thing you could want. I would pay more just for the DGO sensor alone. Pocket 6k pro is an amazing deal. But, minus BRAW, C70 is better in almost every single way.

It costs over 2x as much and lacks tons of cine features that the Pocket 6K Pro has. Writing off one of the biggest ones, and one that is most beneficial to actual productions (RAW) really doesn't help your case. But if the sensor is what's most important to you then by all means go that route. 

45 minutes ago, Origami101 said:

Worse, since L mount is now their halo product, they’ll be loathe to undercut it by offering better features on m4/3, even if they’re technically feasible. So a GH6 that substantially outperforms the S1 or S1H? Probably not going to happen, even if S series sales continually underperform. But I would love to be proved wrong.

The thing is, I don't think a GH6 that substantially outperforms those cameras would even hurt their full frame sales because those are the people that won't consider anything smaller than full frame anyway. 

Sensor size is not a major selling point for me. If I end up going full frame it's because I was forced to or the value was just too hard to beat, not because I NEED full frame. As it stands, as I look at other options, I'm looking at APS-C more than full frame. If Panasonic abandons M43 and I go with Sony, I see myself getting a couple A6600 bodies and MAYBE splurge for full frame lenses so I'm "future proof." Yes the A7siii intrigues me but not because of the full frame sensor. I'd be as equally compelled by it if it were APS-C, maybe even more so if given a lower price tag. 

I don't know, part of me feels like I'm being overly negative but at the same time, I'm really disappointed with how things have played out. I've never been a fan boy, I've just stuck with Panasonic because they gave me tremendous value and were leaders in innovation. But if they leave M43 users hanging I just can't justify supporting them even if I wanted to go the S1H or S5 route, because I'd have no reason to believe they wouldn't do the same in the future. 

It really is remarkable how opposite their body designs are from their OS. One is ugly as sin, the other is truly elegant. 

Unless you need auto focus it's hard to justify getting the C70 over this. There's A LOT of value in this. $2,500 for all of that is a tremendous value. 

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera

For those that missed it. 

2 minutes ago, Sethman said:

what about the sensor? Same from the 6K?

Yes. 

$2,495 for the camera and the battery grip is only $125. Not bad. 

That's a hefty boy with the battery grip ha ha. Good lawd

Two XLR inputs, that's nice too. 

The battery upgrade alone makes this compelling. 

2 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

Yes!! Not a very pretty camera though lol

It's as ugly as you'd expect a Blackmagic camera to be, that's for sure ha ha. The viewfinder is a real cool add on, too. 

Pocket 6K Pro... I think I see internal ND buttons on the back? And updated battery. 

The ATEM Pro Extreme is nice but I wish they'd gone with SDI instead of HDMI. 

9 hours ago, omega1978 said:

In church 30 grad celcius with A6400 2 hours with no problem. Maybe with Ibis on A6600 is different ??

That's the kinda info I'm looking for, thank you! I do wonder if the IBIS makes a difference. 

I've seen the overheating tests but most of them have been in either a climate controlled room (70f or so) or in direct sunlight. While kind of helpful, the majority of my work is done indoors sometimes in really high temperatures but hardly ever in direct sunlight. 

If I'm using a couple of A6600's to film an indoor sporting event that lasts all day (with up to 2 hour takes) in 90-95+ degree temperatures (sometimes really humid too) is that going to be a problem? I'd ask about the A7siii too, but I don't know if many people have had the opportunity to test it out in those conditions. 

Any user experiences? 🙏🏻

There can be a future for M43, it just really depends on if Panasonic wants there to be one and if they're willing to pull out all the stops. Everyone has caught up or surpassed them, so they need to do something that grabs people's attention like they did for the GH4 and GH5. 3 years ago I'd have said there is little doubt that they will but then came the LX100 II, G95, and G100. Those releases pained me as a Panasonic user because of how underwhelming they were, particularly given how interested I was in the LX100 II and G95. 

Things like eND, internal ProRes (even if not Raw), proxy recording (especially if they go with 8K), and other higher end features need to be seriously considered. And it needs to be competitively priced. 

You may never be able to win over the people that refuse to use anything other than full frame, but there are a lot of people that don't care about sensor size and care more about what it can do more than anything. I think the Pocket 4K and 6K, and even the ZCams, have shown that to be true. If your provide value it will succeed. If you don't then it won't. 

One thing is for sure, at least for me: if they let M43 go out with a whimper I don't see myself going with Panasonic or the L-mount. As much as I love my Panasonic cameras and as much as I'm tempted by their FF offerings, I'd really feel as though they abandoned us loyal M43 users. I also have my doubts about the L-mount in general, and Panasonic in particular. The alliance doesn't seem very unified, Panasonic lenses are still very expensive compared to their Sony equivalents, and Panasonic's stubbornness when it comes to AF in my opinion has become a serious detriment to the brand at this point. As much as I hate to admit it, the influencers have influenced people into making it into THE selling point and it's impossible to ignore how many people, from larger to smaller YouTubers, have left Panasonic. It's pretty much the first thing people tell me they want more when asking for camera recommendations. As much as it shouldn't, that stuff matters a lot now. 

I'm watching for developments and already looking at plan b myself. Plan b is just trying to decide between Sony and Fuji, though the unlimited recording with Sony makes it the favorite which doesn't make me very happy. 

It's really hard to recommend a M43 camera right now with so much uncertainty. Still, the G85 is a great camera. If you pick that up and get a couple prime lenses you'll be able to do pretty well with it. The G9, if you can afford it, is even better though the recording limits are why I never got one but if you're not doing events or anything like they you are unlikely to need to record longer anyway. You also might even be able to get a GH5 and a prime lens for the $1000 mark. 

I don't have a ton of experience with the X-H1 but I'd maybe look at the X-T3. The IBIS in the X-H1 wasn't great in the first place, as I recall. 

The Canon M50 might be an option too, maybe? 

Honestly the funnest thing in the last 6 or so years has been the vintage lens game. I enjoy finding the cheapest lenses and trying them out. Even the "bad" ones will give you an interesting look and I like seeing if I can use them. It's a relatively low stakes game, since I only mess around with cheap ones (I already have my nice set of Minolta lenses that I'm very happy with.) I also use them to help teach my nephew, who I've given my old GH3. No sense in giving him even the lower cost native lenses when I can give him some old lenses that I don't care if he scuffs up as he explores and learns. 

If @Andrew Reidever does another contest, I think a cheap vintage lense challenge (lenses under maybe $30) would be a cool idea! 

The shutter button might also just be on the handgrip they used when building an early prototype. Don't they sometimes use parts from other cameras in the early stages while they finish up the overall design? Would help explain the different finish it has. 

Their silence is another thing that doesn't make me feel particularly confident. I know it seems like I'm being negative, I'm honestly looking for a reason to stick with M43, but things have changed rapidly in the last 2 years and everyone has caught up. Back then they were the only one that had all the features they had, so it was easy to make the argument (which I made) that AF wasn't a big deal when they gave you everything else they did. And still, I find the AF on my GH5 to be OK, but I'm also aware that my needs aren't the same as other's needs and for a lot of people AF is one of the main selling points. 

I'm just asking Panasonic to rise to the occasion or at least let us know what's going on so we can make whatever decisions we might need to take. Stop leaving us in the dark, please. 

14 hours ago, kye said:

Actually, the 12-35/2.8 equivalent for FF is 24-70/5.6 so the 24-70/4 version is better, and the 24-70/2.8 is a FF lens that MFT never offered.

You can make the argument that the 12-35/2.8 is a 2.8 ff equivalent based on exposure, even if it's not equivalent based on DoF, but even then, a FF sensor gathers so much more light that the noise performance and quality of colours is probably the same between MFT at 2.8 and FF at 5.6.

It really irritates me how people adjust for crop factor on focal length but not on aperture, and Panasonic and Olympus even labelled their f2.8 lenses "PRO" which is completely ridiculous.

I'm aware, but it's still much more expensive than what I paid to get my current lineup. The bang for buck value M43 has just isn't there.