josdr

Fuji has superior colour science to Panasonic, not even something to argue about here. You do not need 4:2:2 unless using a green screen but people like to repeat it because a YouTuber said so. You can do 4:2:2 externally if you use green screen extensively.  You have the best app-c mirrorless available for video, use it.

Influence your shooting environment , deny the gear acquisition syndrome.

Invest in a Meike cine lens if you must buy something 🙂, the 25mm is butter coupled with the x-t3.. If you like the video look, go with Panasonic

On 3/2/2021 at 6:52 AM, pixelpreaching said:

You're not wrong at all - though I disagree about the IQ of the BMPCC's. But, The X-T3 and X-T4 footage is VERY nice too. Not as much latitude for editing and h265 isn't as pleasant to work with, and there are some other differences, but I do love the footage they produce.

 

We more or less agree on your other points so I will not comment on them but I would like to offer my opinion as to editing latitude and h265.  

Nowadays you can very easily edit h265 files with a mid-low tier Nvidia gpu that has a dedicated nvenc hardware decoder/encoder. They are very cheap all things considering so I am always amused by this" h265 is difficult to edit" for a reasonably powerful system that someone editing video would have.( I am talking 800-1000 euros here, not rigs costing thousands of your favourite hard currency ) 

I have a 1660s which is very affordable and I can easily edit 4k footage on a 1080p timeline without needing caching or proxies.. If my grade is too heavy just using Resolve's automatic caching makes it buttery smooth once again. 

If you like Macs, the new M1 chip makes short work of h265 editing as well. 

As per editing latitude. Do we really need that much latitude. Maybe the pocket 4k sliders go a notch more but are you going to do such heavy correction if you even have a rudimentary idea how to expose and what the general colour feel of your scene is? I think it is more the mentality that some more latitude may be there rather than actually needing it.

I was of that mentality as well and I am just an amateur dabbling in a hobby that I like and is quite expensive but as I progress I care less about the latest and the greatest and especially "YouTube reviews" of "Arri like" products and more on what I can learn in using my gear properly and manipulating the scene I am in. I am not saying that you are of that mentality, It is just a point :).

Just for fun I tried to take my X-T3 footage to very different colouring interpretations than what was actually shot and really It has quite a lot of latitude ..  You may counterclaim about RAW, but proper 10 bit is not really lacking at all for even a moderately capable DP 

P.S Sigma deserves praise and support

On 2/10/2021 at 7:09 AM, pixelpreaching said:

I was reading the most recent 5 pages of this thread and this made me literally laugh out loud

Andrew, you have this weird thing against Blackmagic that I think is personal.

Things you complained about on the BMPCC4K (no IBIS, no AF, no tilt screen, no EVF) are all literally true for the Sigma Fp.

Not all cameras are made for vloggers and hybrid shooters. Cinema cameras fall into that category. It's ignorant to expect a cinema camera to conform to the same expectations as a stills camera that shoots video.

None of the cameras you listed output better IQ nor do they have the ergonomics or user interface of a proper cinema camera (a la BMPCC).

Please, for the sake of your readers - myself included, get over your grudge against Blackmagic. It's childish.

Ι would hardly classify people that do not like BM gear as ignorant as to what constitutes a cine camera. There are well established problems with reliability, bad quality control, subpar sensors etc that do not help its case for indy use.

We are indeed thankful that it has disrupted the market with its pocket cameras that are affordable when compared to the ridiculous pricing of 'High end cine cameras", i.e mirrorless cameras with their menus on physical buttons.

You overstate the case for the BMPcc iq.. I do not know about the 6k one, but my X-t3 looks way better than the 4k one with better skin tone to boot. If one listens to the you tubers of course RAW iz alwayz better because sliders! Pushing everything around , highlights and dark spots alike. 

The sigma FP was a very brave endeavour by Sigma and despite its shortcomings I am waiting for the FP II.

This is not to support Andrew, not that he needs my support, or to totally contradict you. I am adding to the discussion. I have been tempted to buy one, I have handled footage from 4k ones (I do love Resolve) but they have certain problems to address.

On 2/25/2021 at 8:00 PM, dgbarar said:

Hi All:

I recently updated the firmware in my X-T3 to version 4.00.   Since making this update I have had issues with the camera in video mode.  Camera becomes un-responsive, LCD froze, and was unable to turn off camera--had to remove the battery.

Anyone else experience this on their X-T3 with an upgrade to firmware version 4.00.

Don Barar

Nope, I have shot countless hours with mine. Try reinstalling the firmware if it will let you, otherwise just reset all settings from the menu, that should fix it

Sigma is a greta company worthy of our support. A great corporate spirit unlike the behemoth with the "magic" colour science.

12 hours ago, EphraimP said:

True, in terms of 10 bit vs 10 bit. When I read Llaasseerr's comment I saw ProRes. Missed the RAW part. I find that ProRes files are some much nicer to use on a long/complicated edit. Plus, you do get the bump from 420 to 422 and a bigger, brighter screen with pro monitoring tools like false color, monitoring luts and desqueezing anamorphic footage. 

I would argue that the 422 is really useful with green screen recordings rather than anything else . Prores are much nicer to use, but any decent mid tier Nvidia  gpu can handle h265 natively nowadays..  But we all do like to whine :)..  If they would allow the X-T3 to output 12bit to the ninja v I would personally not think to "upgrade" a camera body  for a long time. 🙂

4 minutes ago, EphraimP said:

Ninja V is your pal.

It is still 10 bit.... No real quality gain there compared to internal recording

11 minutes ago, deezid said:

Not talking about color, which can be altered anyway or just by using better Rec709 conversions than the ones provided by Panasonic which quite frankly aren't great.

The processing is the culprit. Even with noise reduction and sharpening both set to -4 (lowest) and interframe NR OFF the X-T4 showed more sharpening artifacts than my GH5 even with lots of ghosting and smearing on top. Also color separation and tonality on Fuji cameras using F-Log both internally and externally is quite awful. Maybe the HLG workflow @Llaasseerr mentioned helps with both issues but didn't try that myself.

Are you sure your sensor/ glass are in pristine condition for starters? How do you handle the footage? Do you transcode the h265 to something else? I was a bit abrupt in my answer but colour is not a fuji shortcoming and I am not seeing the noise/sharpening reduction problems you are seeing. Why don't you try taking the nr and sharpening to -3 or -2 and see If that is better even if it seems counter logical. Sharpening artefacts , ghosting and smearing are not my experience . the X-T4 sensor is a bit more noisy than the one in the X-T3 (they are almost the same, with the X-T4 having a bit faster sensor readout If I remember correctly) but that's it really, definitely no plasticky over processed skin to the X-T series even with the 8bit x-T2 footage

13 minutes ago, Llaasseerr said:

It's true, the Fuji colours are exceptional at times. I'd love it if the X-T3 was able to output ProRes Raw or something.

I can find lots of faults with Fuji, but their colour science is just great...  I think he is confusing smaller cameras destined for Asian markets where skin over-processing is something that is sought for with what the X-T series can output. My X-t2,3 and 4 are stellar in this.  It all sounds like a bad YouTube video reeking of fanboyitis shouting for Full frame good, aps-c bad. I will concede that Panasonic has improved , there was a poster here with one of the S series cameras that posted some great footage, but even that has a video look to it in most cases. Prores raw externally may come eventually to Fuji but I am very happy with great 10 bit log footage as well. Take the C70 for example. Its 10bit output seems better to my eyes than Blackmagic's raw efforts. I have found the 10 bit footage from the X-T3- X-T4 very malleable to correct/transform if exposed decently enough. 

Back to the F-X3 now. I read that They just released Cinetone for the A7siii

1 hour ago, deezid said:

Ugh, the X-T3 and 4 have a nasty artificial and plastic looking image with strong temporal filtering on top of the excessive sharpening which gets thrown on the footage even when it's set to -4. Even the A7s3 performs better in that regard.

Really no comparison to the S1H with NR set to -1.

You should share what you are drinking buddy . Keep the Panasonic vcr colours , we will keep the lovely and unparalleled Fuji colour science.. You have no idea on how to use one do you??

6 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

. For weddings I had an external recorder to bypass that, but micro HDMI is too fragile. Plus record limits are just a pointless gimp. The camera is perfectly capable of recording past that, especially in 2k. 

As to rolling shutter its not usually noticeable, but its nice to have low or global shutter for handheld.

Truth be told if you record weddings a C or a FX may be more suitable in the long run, but I understand your position . I do not think the cameras can record indefinitely although they run quite cool in direct sunlight.

As for the global shutter unicorn, I just do not know. I have been reading it for ages. I  remember that Fuji and Panasonic were developing an organic global sensor. Fuji is quite strange in its decision. Its lens production choices are bizarre for starters and there are too many holier than though fujistas that will not accept anything deviating from their holy cannon 

4 hours ago, Jay60p said:

Wow.

Kubrick often shot with the 200ft magazine, that lasts 2.2 minutes.

My Arri 400 foot magazine lasts 4.4 minutes.

So 1 year = 90ft/min x 60min x 24hours x 365 days = a 47 million, 304 thousand foot magazine.

That’s a magazine weight of about 266,000 pounds.

Is that camera on Ebay?

 

I could not find one with a quick search but I am sure that all the hipster DP's would get one when it becomes available and keep it rolling for a couple of months just to prove a point 🙂.

Seriously though, if you want to record a company meeting or a convention, you get a FX or a C and call it a day. No point for mirrorless to record for hours for a documentary or a movie.. I think that we do not understand that we now have access to miracle small boxes that DP's would be salivating over 10 years ago. 

1 hour ago, TomTheDP said:

Unlimited recording, full size HDMI, and Prores RAW would be a big start and both fairly easy implementations. Record limits are a big reason I sold my fuji along with micro HDMI. I just can't really take a camera seriously that has a 30 minute record limit, at least they could have gotten rid of it for 2k recording. Micro HDMI is unacceptable too IMHO. 

 

The only other ask for me would be improved rolling shutter. It would be nice if the rolling shutter performance on the A7S3 and Canon R5 could be the standard going forward. The first three things I mentioned would be enough for me to buy it though. 

Hi Tom

I will agree with your prores raw and full hdmi for the X-H2. X-H2 should have both , the bar has been set. Unlimited recording not really, it is not that useful in movies, if at all and you will hardly use it as an A-cam for conferences. I find your statement that you cannot take a camera seriously that has a 30 minute record limit a bit unfair , with all due respect 🙂.

  I do not care that much about rolling - shutter as well, 99% of the audience will not notice or care. I kind of think that it is like those people that shoot brick walls , trying to find tangible flaws in modern lenses with modern coatings and quality assembly. There may be there somewhere but seriously , it either goes unnoticed or can be passed as artistic with some creative editing. DP's will beg to differ but then they are highly specialised individuals, trained to understand the image and as in many disciplines experts lose the forest for the tree.  I am guilty there as well.

Fuji is of course dependent on sony for their sensor , so whatever advances will come to rolling shutter are dependent on Sony and a new processing chip from Fuji. I think they could have  allowed for external raw recording on the X-T3/4 generation if it was their mandate to do so. Here is hopping for a great X-H2, since the X-H1 was a letdown and suffered from the Fuji disease of having too many lines of cameras without distinct purpose.

P.S They definitely need a more cinematic lut than Eterna , at least for the people that do not employ or are skilled colorists. And they definitely need a sensible price.

14 hours ago, EphraimP said:

Have you thought about making a video on how you did this? Palle Schultze made video about drilling and milling a wooden side handle to fit a button, but didn't get into the wiring at all. That was a bummer for someone like me who is pretty clueless about wiring but owns a soldering iron and is willing to learn.  

It is a standard switch with three prongs where you need to solder three wires. No point in a video really if you get a switch, a suitable tip and some wire. I have done one without having a diagram, just by trial and error. I suggest that your soldering will give you more trouble , so here are a couple of tips. Apply solder  to both sides of a connection before applying them together. Warm up the joint before applying solder. You will probably get "cold" joints in your first tries but you will get there.

1 hour ago, pixelpreaching said:

Absolutely love how people like you immediately hop to "cancel culture" the instant someone has a dissenting opinion, as if I even alluded to him being cancelled, have the power to do so, or am attempting to do so. Y'all love to cling to "free speech" and say things like "if you cannot accept a differing opinion" while literally not being able to accept a differing opinion.

His article was written and posted on the internet. With a link to a forum discussion specifically about the article. I guess I missed the disclaimer that to post in that forum you had to (ironically) keep your differing opinion to yourself.

"Bronzed Hollywood MILFs" is a degrading, gross, misogynistic description of - among others - amazing veteran actors like Connie Nielsen and Robin Wright. This disdain for working professionals isn't the first time to appear on this site from Andrew, however.

The movie is bad. For so many reasons. Hell, many feminists have brought attention to the very weird and borderline rape aspect of Steve's character inhabiting someone else's body. But, oh, wait... that can't be... this is a movie that "has nailed itself to gender equality, and female identity, thus putting itself beyond criticism."

Maybe if people around here actually, I don't know, SPOKE to working film critics - both men *and* women - you'd know how absolutely, insanely nonsense that statement is. I can link you to *at least* a dozen different essays/pieces about how bad or problematic this movie is just from critics I know... probably more than half of them from women. Frankly, the idea that this movie is immune from criticism by "woke" circles is the most laughable thing I've read all week... and it's been an insane week here in the US.

I'm sure all of this will, once again, be dismissed as being a "Little Hitlerite" or "cancel culture." Apparently those things are just when you respond to someone on a forum that they created specifically for an article they wrote and posted publicly on the internet.

Orwell is indeed laughing. Just not for the reasons you think.

You wrote  a lot of words but are unable or unwilling to a address my main critique of your  Orwellian statements. That the author of the article should seek mental health help and whoever does not agree with you (shock and horror indeed) should immediately be castigated according to your fellow film critics down the pub.

I think your intended audience is the skewed distorted catoptron of reddit , rather than this forum, but as yourself I am a guest here so do continue preaching as as how the bronzed MILFs hypocrisy of another silly Hollywood movie is the latest Magnus opus of how should we think. I may disagree with you but I would strongly support you actually having the ability of being able to express your views , even if they are part of a skewed social conditioning by the mass media system you have been subjected to.

Woe to us if we err from the prescribed truth you and the MILFs prescribe for us. How dare the author post articles you disagree with "publicly" on the internet tubes. What next, clubbing seal pups and not being vegan? A culture that has been conditioned to be "insulted" with whatever it does not agree with its "leadership" is of course a mark of an emerging authoritarian regime. 

Lots of the "people around here" do not seem to conform to your ideas. Are we all to be liquidated mentally for not calling MILFs doing cgi stunts an anathema to good cinema? 

8 hours ago, pixelpreaching said:

This is absolutely unhinged.

I actually know and talk to *dozens* of working film critics and I don't know a single one that really liked this movie - and easily half of those critics are women. Maybe one or two said they enjoyed it just fine but it's not great, while the VAST majority have talked about its many, many issues, including a lot of xenophobic/racial nonsense.

But this.... is just, I have to say, the writing of someone who needs to really look at themselves. The off the scale irony of complaining about how men are portrayed while consistently railing against all the women involved here ("bronzed Hollywood MILFs" is a real nice line, very cool and mature and not sexist or gross at all).

Man, you write this shit on the INTERNET. You do know everyone can read this, right?

The movie sucked, but holy hell, seek some help. Or maybe this is just who you are.

The cancel culture is very strong with you. Perhaps you should seek some help rather than prescribing it to somebody else. "Bronzed Hollywood MILf's" was a great line leading to the crux of the matter about this movie. If you cannot accept a different opinion rather than the politically correct emasculating one, there is always Reddit to vend. Whatever you do not like, ohh its is sexist, oh it is xenophobic....   Little Hittlerites is what it is.

Orwell is laughing.

On 1/2/2021 at 9:39 AM, josdr said:

Here is a very short movie I made, under heavy covid restrictions etc... It was meant purely for fun and shot in about an hour. I used an X-T3 with a 18-55 , f 2.8-3.6 , f-log, iso at 3200 mostly. Denoised in a very buggy Resolve 17 that could not export a 1080p file from a 4k master and which gave me lots of trouble with its idiotic ram handling of my  gpu .Very inefficient code. ( I know its beta , but Resolve is very inefficient in handling 6gb of Ram even in 16)

 First outing for the mixpre 3-ii I was really impressed by  it , I have never recorded sound that sounded so lovely and clear. I blame @IronFilm for his bad influence on my sound aspirations 👍

Fuji's AF in the dark is mostly useless . It was mostly manual aF and parts of scenes were shot a bit out of focus for artistic effect (that is my excuse and I am sticking to it) 😁

Mostly shot handheld/on the shoulder with his supposedly engaged on the 18-55. In retrospect I may have saved myself a couple of stops of light and used my 35 1.4.

 

We had fun and that is the most important thing that we sometimes forget.

 

https://vimeo.com/495306397

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nobody is killing film making. As long as there is a story to be told, there will be the need for the medium through which it will disseminate

11 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

Nice location, but that looks quite digital to me though.

Great clip but I will agree as well. Sorry! It has nothing to do with your handling at all.. Even at golden hour in the great outdoors, something is not quite right. I suppose it is the same for most cameras of course.

1 hour ago, zerocool22 said:

Yeah def agree, its part colour science but also too sharp and detailed. Using vintage lenses helps, but for narrative work I would use a proper cinema camera. But the s series is great for company videos and thats what I will use this cam for as it is a faster way of working. (Ibis, small, less weight, pretty good battery life)

I can definitely imagine that these cameras are great for company work. @omega1978 wedding videos are as good as it gets in a non-controlled environment for company work . Very nice work

@PannySVHS I agree that you can take the super high resolving look in post but there is some emotive character missing vlog or not. Unfortunately I never had the pleasure to perhaps shoot an s5/s1 along with my x-t3 in the same exact setting in order to be able to describe it further. I am envious of Panasonic's approach of making their cameras more videocentric friendly in their use (most fujistas are ignorant of what their cameras can do video-wise )

Do the professional panasonic cameras have better colour science or is this as good as it gets and the rest is production value and ease of use? I almost bought a gh a couple of years ago but I still did not like the look back then. I am not bashing Panasonic at all , these are fantastic cameras I would be very happy to own.  I am just interested in what their everyday experienced users critically think away from "the mine is better than yours" mentality.

I suppose the feeling we are after is too fleeting and complicated to be explained in a couple of paragraphs

Dead thread revival alert. Did you do this comparison Andrew?

While a lot of work, craft and talent has been poured in all the latest videos from the S range cameras I find the footage too "video" for my liking. It is very clean, it has nice  hues but it seems to lack soul...  Just my feeling, I am not bashing on what are clearly excellent cameras. Some of the videos in this thread are great but you cannot help feeling how better they could become due to some more emotive colour science. What is the critical opinion of the S camera owners?

@BrunoCH Thank you very much for your hands on advice . I was deliberating between the 25 and the 35 since I could only get one for starters and I decided to go for the 25 ,although you are correct the 35 is the "basic" one. I  got it directly from Meike, hopefully I will have it within January.  How were they flare-wise in outdoors sunny shoots ?

Here is a very short movie I made, under heavy covid restrictions etc... It was meant purely for fun and shot in about an hour. I used an X-T3 with a 18-55 , f 2.8-3.6 , f-log, iso at 3200 mostly. Denoised in a very buggy Resolve 17 that could not export a 1080p file from a 4k master and which gave me lots of trouble with its idiotic ram handling of my  gpu .Very inefficient code. ( I know its beta , but Resolve is very inefficient in handling 6gb of Ram even in 16)

 First outing for the mixpre 3-ii I was really impressed by  it , I have never recorded sound that sounded so lovely and clear. I blame @IronFilm for his bad influence on my sound aspirations 👍

Fuji's AF in the dark is mostly useless . It was mostly manual aF and parts of scenes were shot a bit out of focus for artistic effect (that is my excuse and I am sticking to it) 😁

Mostly shot handheld/on the shoulder with his supposedly engaged on the 18-55. In retrospect I may have saved myself a couple of stops of light and used my 35 1.4.

We had fun and that is the most important thing that we sometimes forget.

https://vimeo.com/495306397

Happy new year to everybody, with health and lots of creativity and happiness. A thanks to Andrew for keeping this community alive.