Fredrik Lyhne

Panasonic get's praised because they offer different codecs for different shooters. Why is that so hard to understand? 

Here's the graded shot of the new shot which I would say is a normal exposure. With this shot and the one "ETTR"? from yesterday I had to lower the midtones, but on this shot I could also raise the highlights slightly without loosing to much detail on the shirt. 
I would say it's a very good exposure for skin tones, but the shirt is loosing some detail, so I think 1/3 stop less would be perfect. 

On the ETTR I had to lower the midtones, but can't raise the highlights more and lowering them doesn't help with the skin tones or the shirt. 

On the -2/3 I had to raise the highlights and because the skin tones and shirt was not overexposed it didn't affect the image in bad way. I still think this was the best overall exposure of the bunch, but the new shot from today is also good. 

To match the brightness of the ETTR and -2/3 I raised the highlights even more from +5 to +10 and even though it seemed to clip the red channel slightly it still look better then the other shots I think. 

@jagnje we're just trying to find the best exposure settings as these cameras can go from good to great if you nail the exposure. And looking at these test I would say it's worth the time and effort we put into it  I understand that ETTR is the way do to it with many cameras, but these cameras seems to perform best when they are slightly underexposed. 

I think @jase made a very nice video with that lens.

I tend to underexpose to much at times and that's is something I really need to get better at. It's different but the same as overexposing and very hard to make it look good in post. 
Your videos look very nice and the exposure is very consistent so I wouldn't worry about cc and grading. I only had to do very slight correction on it which to me means you're doing things very right. I think your documentary/filmic style works very well for your videos. Grading looks however is off course a whole nother chapter.

Here's the graded shot of the new shot which I would say is a normal exposure. With this shot and the one "ETTR"? from yesterday I had to lower the midtones, but on this shot I could also raise the highlights slightly without loosing to much detail on the shirt. 
I would say it's a very good exposure for skin tones, but the shirt is loosing some detail, so I think 1/3 stop less would be perfect. 

On the ETTR I had to lower the midtones, but can't raise the highlights more and lowering them doesn't help with the skin tones or the shirt. 

On the -2/3 I had to raise the highlights and because the skin tones and shirt was not overexposed it didn't affect the image in bad way. I still think this was the best overall exposure of the bunch, but the new shot from today is also good. 

To match the brightness of the ETTR and -2/3 I raised the highlights even more from +5 to +10 and even though it seemed to clip the red channel slightly it still look better then the other shots I think. 

@jagnje we're just trying to find the best exposure settings as these cameras can go from good to great if you nail the exposure. And looking at these test I would say it's worth the time and effort we put into it  I understand that ETTR is the way do to it with many cameras, but these cameras seems to perform best when they are slightly underexposed. 

Haha, glad we're finally on the same page! Your test's have been very helpful and this really shows that one should pay more attention to exposure. 
Paul's histogram is indeed very misleading and I think it's just a case of an expert trying to explain something to non-experts but forget that they are not experts! 
The shots I graded are ETTR and -2/3 but I didn't try -1/3, maybe that one will work too? I find it a bit strange that your shirt was overexposed beyond repair when you followed Paul's advice with 100% zebras. Did you try to grade the different shots to see which was easiest for you? 
But you are right about the noise Jon, it's less noise in the shadows when done right, but unlike raw theres only a very small window where color, noise and highlights are perfect.

Doesn't look like ETTR on the histogram either and it sure looks a lot different from Noam Kroll's ETTR.
https://www.provideocoalition.com/use-ettr-technique-maximize-dynamic-range/
I believe when Paul Leeming used the term ETTR to explain how to use his LUT he should have explained that this is really ETTR light version or something. I took the shot off Paul holding the color checker and checked the histogram in Lightroom and it's very different from the one in his picture. Looks like he just used a another histogram to make his point, and this can be a little confusing when you're trying to match Paul's histogram in a shot with skin tones cause you could very easily ending up overexposing and possibly ruining the shot. ETTR is for raw, log and maybe jpegs/8 bit video without skin tones. 
If you look at Paul's images and explanation I would agree that you should adjust the exposure until the zebras disappears from the face, but that is definitely not a good idea. 
http://www.leeminglutone.com/#howtoettr
But's kind of funny how we're arguing over this, but we're actually kinda agreeing  
Thanks for the tests @jonpais!

Dear Jon,
 
yes, scenario is the main criteria, be that climatic, experimentally motivated or commercial ones f.i.
I don´t think it is ETTR what you are doing. I think it is getting the maximal amount of light before the nasties are appearing, in order to avoid noise, in order to get the
maximum potential and not always immediately visible visual information.
With RAW it is supposed to be ETTR big time. Taking pictures with my GF1, even in RAW, it is a no go. But exposing as much as possible is still desirable regarding quality of the signal.
I think, it is that what you are aiming for. And sometimes that can be -1/2 dialed into the camera, because sometimes camera meters are different than others.
In my bright sunlight scenario with huge dynamic range and plentyful light to feed the sensor, the risk of noise was much lower than the huge risk of nastily overexposed mess.
That mess could have never been rescued afterwards, not technically nor in any pleasing visual manner at all.
 
For the jerky movement with auto shutter, I can see it very often too. Just check my bicycle video, if you like for stuttery motion because of that.
I filmed a little exercise two weeks ago, with auto shutter, -2/3, in softer GX85 HD and by accident with gruesome ISO 1250. But it turned out kinda pretty,
because amount and even more the quality of natural light was beautiful.
 
Regarding color shifts, that is even a thing one can try in Resolve. Pure white can expose nasty greyish purple if pulled down
in post. So for filming or acquiring material, it sure will show how we expose. And getting the curves right in Resolve can be a tricky one too,
sometimes a lucky one.
 
Once I graded one of your G81 videos and it turned out awesome, because you had captured great quality light.
Event though I dled it from youtube.
 
In Glenns videos I never noticed stutter, neither in Jase´s. Only in mine, which is not fair!
So I usually prefer to stick to a fixed shutter. I actually recognize stutter and jittery motion, with anything that doesnt involve faces.
And on my HDMI monitor I can see the jagginess, I wasnt able to see on the VGA I have been using until only a few months ago.
Tilts and Pans sometimes look terrible. It´s quiet an art to do handheld with these Panny photo cams. Was amazed @mercers videos
because his camera movement always looked stunning.
I wish you all happy shooting and experimenting.
 
 

I really don't want to beat a dead horse, but what is your on camera monitor calling your ETTR shot?
Because to me, that isn't ETTR and that looks like +/- 0.
At 90% zebras, what f-stop did they disappear at?
I don't think you can truly ETTR by dropping a full stop. Those zebras could have disappeared at any point during that stop drop. 
Plus, you ETTR your subject, so technically the zebras should have been pulled back from your face, not your shirt. 
Which is another problem with ETTR on these 8bit cameras, you end up with a lot more work in post fixing your exposure. Not a big deal for small videos, but another point any beginners reading should be aware of. 

so what? I am using auto-shutter all the time. Do you notice it in my videos? Well, I dont - which is good for me, I am apparently easier to please

I do that when in bright sun light filming docstyle. Autoshutter and -1/2 to -2/3 underexposure with 95% zebra.

I am by no means experienced in the department of grading, but my last 3-4 videos or so i underexposed with -2/3 and I love the results I am getting. However I also have to conclude that my GX80 is sometimes overexposing, so turning it down by -2/3 makes the zebras go disappear in the highlights area.

According to my experience, with (GH4, G80, GX80, GH5)  Expose maximum to 0 ,but mostly better slightly negative, If even slightly overexposed the colors disappear and the predominant yellow (waxy skin) , and mainly in combination with negative contrast !
 
In this test it is clearly visible, exposure +1 and red from the skin is out !
http://www.thehurlblog.com/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gh4-vlog-l-latitude-test-cinematography-education/
my exposure Zebra max. 90% in skin
 
My current setting GH5 :
Cine D    0,-5,-5,-5, 0
iDynamic : standard
WB : Auto A:5 M:4 
and 0 and mostly slightly negative exposure.
Panasonic and ETTR It does not fit me, sorry...
 
Before that I had the Sony, and that ETTR was ideal.  (a6000, a5100, A7S , a6300)

@jonpais I think it's a little more complicated than that. What really matters is what you expose for, skin tones, skies etc. And it's really difficult to get it spot on without a light meter and a monitor as Curtis mentions in the video. It's a lot harder to expose v-log than cine D with just the camera. 
I mess up the exposure to often when I shoot, but I agree with @kidzrevil that the colors look better when they are slightly underexposed, and corrected in post. 
You've probably seen it before but I'm really curios to hear your thoughts on this test by Shane Hurlbut? 
http://www.thehurlblog.com/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gh4-vlog-l-latitude-test-cinematography-education/
 
 

Thanks for posting this. It's interesting to see exactly how he came to those conclusions. When you have controlled lighting, definitely worth thinking about. But that is just one controlled test, would have liked to see his results by performing the same test outside with natural light. 
As is, there seems no reason to doubt his controlled test using a light meter. 

Very nice! Here's mine with Canon 85mm and Lie709

Sigma 18-35:

The more I use the GH5, the more I love it.
http://imgur.com/a/Ff6ME
 

The other videos are actually shot with the GH3, except a few B shots in a couple of videos. The other videos are shot with LED's in the winter and these new ones with natural light so they are not 100% comparable. Anyway, the color coming out of the newer camera models are just so much easier to handle in post.
The DR gained in this shot is probably lost in the grade  I don't see much either and this location is a bit tricky to say the least. I've tried covering up the windows, but it looks a bit weird and I obviously loose a lot light. I'm still getting used to exposing v-log and these were a bit too much underexposed if I remember correctly. But for what it is I'm happy with the result for now. 
I just got the G85 really cheap and that is a great camera. The GX85 is much better looking, but the ergonomics on the G85 is in another league. Compared to the GH5 and GX85 it's easily the most bang for buck for enthusiasts who wants a small footprint. The GH5 is much more a "Pro" camera which can be built into a low-budget cinema camera. The GH5 is also a lot bigger and heavier. Have you went to the store to check it out yet?
When the GH4 v-log was leaked I was very excited to see how good it looked with just a small contrast correction, unfortunately it didn't work well without an external recorder. Now with the GH5 you don't need that unless you want to shoot 4K 50p. I probably don't need the GH5 or v-log but it's very exciting to shoot with and I also enjoy the challenge of mastering it and improving my skills. This camera will be with until 1) the GH6 comes out with or 2) someone starts paying me and I need something better (which is very unlikely  ).
What I like about the GH5 though is that there is nothing to miss. Every feature I need is there and it just feels solid. And even though I've had it for a while I've barely touched the surface, there are so many new features to explore like the Like 709 profile that I just tried and looks very promising. Slow motion is also very cool!

Here is the link to purchase: https://www.thecampcomet.com/gh5luts
 
Post workflow was easy. I just used the Comet Color LUT and made small adjustments to contrast, saturation, and tint. I pushed it toward magenta a bit more b/c of all the greenery.
I used the LUT to monitor at the location as well.

Wow, looks great!! What is the post workflow on this? 

Kholi finished the Comet Color LUT for V Log. It's not supposed to emulate film or any other camera. Just a specific look, similar to the one's he made for Blackmagic.
 

4K in a Canon Cinema camera you say. How does $ 8 000 sound? I'll bet they will continue to sell c100 mkii and c300 mkii at the same price as now and place this new model right in the middle. 

4K in a Canon Cinema camera you say. How does $ 8 000 sound? I'll bet they will continue to sell c100 mkii and c300 mkii at the same price as now and place this new model right in the middle. 

4K in a Canon Cinema camera you say. How does $ 8 000 sound? I'll bet they will continue to sell c100 mkii and c300 mkii at the same price as now and place this new model right in the middle. 

If they made the focus transition feature controllable via the image app it would be much more useful.