mercer

you don't have to, your value judgement is irrelevant. the fact is that nikon now gets to control red's patent, and now gets to decide who gets to use "compressed raw" on their terms: 
either we get more more cameras with internal raw from other companies, where nikon will be profiting from the income of licenses (imo unlikely) or nothing changes. instead of red going after other companies in court, it's going to be nikon, and thus having another source of income by claiming damages (imo more likely) this was red's business model after all. nikon probably doesn't care all that much about making products or entering the cinema market. my prediction is that red as a brand, as well as their cameras will cease to exist in a few years. nikon will probably keep making hybrids with a focus on photography, and i doubt that any of the red tech will trickle down. why would it after all? Who's going to buy a nikon branded camcorder in a world where sony dominates the market? reds are kinda dead in the european high end rental market, why would nikon even start?
 
here's a value judgement from me: lol

I feel very confident being a reader of this former for the past decade to fully understand every aspect of this acquisition. 

Yeah, but remember, our situations have almost nothing in common.  You're shooting dreamy images for someone else to pay you money and doing so in a situation where you're expected to be taking up space and using as impressive a camera setup as possible.  I am shooting environmental images for myself in situations where I'm discouraged from taking up space and where having the smallest possible setup is to my advantage.
As far as my understanding goes, if I was doing what you do then I'd also have the same thoughts as you.  I imagine that if you were doing what I do then you'd also understand why I have the priorities that I do.
It's easy to look in at a situation from a distance and see enough of it to have a good overview, but to be far enough from the details that the subtleties aren't apparent. 
The FF user telling the MFT user who wants small cameras that FF is just as good as MFT is like the cinematographer telling the wedding shooter that an FX9 is just as good for shooting wedding videos as a mirrorless, and completely missing that the price, size, weight, workflow, and a dozen small details make the proposition impractical at best.  The comparison probably isn't bulletproof and you could probably find weaknesses in it, but I've had enough issues in the field with the size of my XC10 and GH5 that I can pretty confidently say that the considerations involved are real, even if they aren't obvious to outsiders.  I mean, the other recent thread from @John Matthews was about cameras substantially smaller than the GX85!

@kye we've discussed this a bit in the past regarding selling everything and moving to a new system and normally I would be against it... I still consider my 5D3 with ML Raw as my main camera... but if my main camera was a m4/3, I might consider it.
Unfortunately, m4/3 as a small camera system is a thing of the past. Any new cameras will be as big as Panasonic's FF offerings, so if you want any of the upgrades you mentioned, the only option is to change systems or deal with the bigger m4/3 bodies. Sony could be a great option, as @BTM_Pix mentioned because you can use some of your current manual focus m4/3 lenses with a simple adapter while you decide what lenses you'd like to invest in. Also, eventually there will be no m4/3... it may not be for a few years, but the writing is on the wall... so your Voigtlander lenses will become VERY expensive paper weights. Sell them while you still can.
Then again, if you are happy with the images you are getting with what you already own, then there's no reason to upgrade.
But if you want some of the features you mentioned, the only options are a change in systems... hell you can have a lot, if not all including size, by going full frame. In the end, after selling off/trading what you have, you could probably end up with more money. 

I think I droned out these exact same thoughts in the G9ii or some similar thread about MFT but I'll repeat them anyway 🙂 
In terms of a new camera, I honestly think its time to give up on Panasonic producing that specced up GX85 that everybody knows they could make if they wanted to.
In the absence of the "new" Olympus not doing anything to move the MFT story along either in terms of a compact then something like the A6700 is that camera now.
As well as being a larger sensor, it ticks every box of what is being asked for in terms of being dual native ISO, 10bit 4:2:2 internal, IBIS, class leading AF, LOG and a very good out of the box profile in S-Cinetone.
Very flexible mount in that it can even take your MFT manual focus lenses and has very good options like the Meike EF>E which will give you full AF of Canon lenses with the bonus of variable ND.
In terms of native lenses, there are a lot more E mount options now compared to when, say, the GX85 launched and it is seeing more releases every month unlike MFT which is slowing now.
The writing was on the wall when Sigma expanded their compact f1.4 prime lineup with the 56mm and didn't release an MFT version. 
Their two compact contemporary f2.8 zoom lenses are also not available in MFT of course.
Size wise there isn't anything in it from the front and the GX85 is actually a fraction bigger.

The A6700 is deeper but most of that is attributable to the chunky grip which, to me, is no bad thing as the GX85 is not chunky enough for me and the A6700's incorporates a dial too.

Price wise, it is a lot more expensive than the GX85 was on launch but so is everything else now and it is significantly cheaper than Panasonic's latest MFT camera, the G9ii.
The virtual shark jumping price of the G9ii makes me suspect that even if Panasonic did produce a new specced up GX85 that it would likely be at least as expensive as the A6700.
If you want to be closer spiritually to a combo of the GX85 and OG Pocket then, if you embrace the quirks, the Sigma Fp is well worth a consideration particularly as the used prices are dropping.

Personally, I'd add the EVF-11 as it is so much nicer to shoot with whilst at the same time you can remover it and leave it in your pocket if you need to go smaller. The tilt action of the EVF enables you to press the camera to your chest to offer a lot more stability when handholding.
That is important because you lose IBIS of course but you gain RAW and, as with the AF of the Fp, the internal 8 bit 4K is far more serviceable than people give it credit for and if you only need HD then its 12 bit internal. 
As with the EVF, the modularity means that if you want more capability in terms of bit depth then you can add it easily and discreetly.
The Fp has largely been forgotten/written off by an awful lot of people around the world but in Japan, in particular, there is some absolutely lovely imagery being uploaded to YouTube every week from it.
 

I have a lot more to say about this... but only have a few minutes to reply. I think I wrote a similar post years ago and one of my arguments for a camcorder is that when you are shooting a zero budget, guerrilla style film, you need to look as inconspicuous as possible and nothing says dorky dad more than a camcorder... nobody would pay you any mind whatsoever.
Now I could be content with ProRes HQ but being a raw video only shooter, I would much rather have raw.
I love the form factor of camcorders... but I also still prefer DSLRs to mirrorless so I'm basically a dinosaur in today's market.

Oh, I'm dreaming of even more. I'm thinking of internal raw recording in a camcorder. (It would likely have to be uncompressed raw because of Red's patent but if I'm dreaming here it would be ProResRaw and/or BRaw.)
I'm thinking of the type of narrative filmmaking where you have actors and all but the filming situation is such that you don't have much control over the setting (or much time with the location). You need to set up fast and get the shots and move on. A camcorder is perfect for that. It would need some type of timecode jam sync for any external audio recorder(s). 
 

I spent a lot of time testing different configurations to make the FP more ergonomic. I finally found the best cage and drive to keep it, relatively, compact without going down the Dark Labs rabbit hole...

With that said, out of the box, the camera isn't much bigger than the original eos-m, so when you add a cage, the ssd, lens adapter and lens, it morphs into a much larger camera that isn't much smaller than my 5D3 but much more cumbersome.
The screen is pretty nice on the FP and excuse the pun, but with the 5D3, you can see the "magic" of raw on the LCD. With the FP, although it's a better screen, the image has a very flat, dimensional look.
Battery life isn't that great with the FP either, compared to the 5D3... I'd say you can get about 45 minutes, or so.
In some ways, the FP would probably work better if fully rigged out or if the barebones camera was on a gimbal with the SSD attached to the gimbal's handle.
With my current setup, I'd say @BTM_Pix 's approach using M mount lenses would probably be the most compact route. I've been looking at some LTM lenses, so we'll see.
In a perfect world, I'd have the money to buy an R5C or R5ii when it gets released, but that doesn't seem likely, so I'll decide what to do with my FP.
To tell the truth, if someone offered me a good price, I'd consider selling it right now. I got OpenAI for video now. 

As I'm sure you know and you just misspoke, you need an external drive for 12bit 4K, not an external recorder. You can shoot internal 12bit 1080p, but ML Raw has an undeniably better IQ, in all respects, than the FP's FHD.
I agree about the IBIS, but I don't really see a point for ML Raw with the R5? You can already shoot internal raw. But all of the Canon IBIS cameras are Digic X, so it will be a long time before they break that code.
It will be interesting to see what they can do with the EOS-R and hopefully the M50. I'd actually be really happy if they were able to enable continuous MLV raw on the 5D4.
But I'm still really impressed with what the 5D3 with ML Raw and a Canon IS lens is capable of handheld. So maybe I'm just easily impressed. 

As I'm sure you know and you just misspoke, you need an external drive for 12bit 4K, not an external recorder. You can shoot internal 12bit 1080p, but ML Raw has an undeniably better IQ, in all respects, than the FP's FHD.
I agree about the IBIS, but I don't really see a point for ML Raw with the R5? You can already shoot internal raw. But all of the Canon IBIS cameras are Digic X, so it will be a long time before they break that code.
It will be interesting to see what they can do with the EOS-R and hopefully the M50. I'd actually be really happy if they were able to enable continuous MLV raw on the 5D4.
But I'm still really impressed with what the 5D3 with ML Raw and a Canon IS lens is capable of handheld. So maybe I'm just easily impressed. 

It's called a Sigma FP and I assume it's due for an update soon. 

As I'm sure you know and you just misspoke, you need an external drive for 12bit 4K, not an external recorder. You can shoot internal 12bit 1080p, but ML Raw has an undeniably better IQ, in all respects, than the FP's FHD.
I agree about the IBIS, but I don't really see a point for ML Raw with the R5? You can already shoot internal raw. But all of the Canon IBIS cameras are Digic X, so it will be a long time before they break that code.
It will be interesting to see what they can do with the EOS-R and hopefully the M50. I'd actually be really happy if they were able to enable continuous MLV raw on the 5D4.
But I'm still really impressed with what the 5D3 with ML Raw and a Canon IS lens is capable of handheld. So maybe I'm just easily impressed. 

I spent a lot of time testing different configurations to make the FP more ergonomic. I finally found the best cage and drive to keep it, relatively, compact without going down the Dark Labs rabbit hole...

With that said, out of the box, the camera isn't much bigger than the original eos-m, so when you add a cage, the ssd, lens adapter and lens, it morphs into a much larger camera that isn't much smaller than my 5D3 but much more cumbersome.
The screen is pretty nice on the FP and excuse the pun, but with the 5D3, you can see the "magic" of raw on the LCD. With the FP, although it's a better screen, the image has a very flat, dimensional look.
Battery life isn't that great with the FP either, compared to the 5D3... I'd say you can get about 45 minutes, or so.
In some ways, the FP would probably work better if fully rigged out or if the barebones camera was on a gimbal with the SSD attached to the gimbal's handle.
With my current setup, I'd say @BTM_Pix 's approach using M mount lenses would probably be the most compact route. I've been looking at some LTM lenses, so we'll see.
In a perfect world, I'd have the money to buy an R5C or R5ii when it gets released, but that doesn't seem likely, so I'll decide what to do with my FP.
To tell the truth, if someone offered me a good price, I'd consider selling it right now. I got OpenAI for video now. 

As I'm sure you know and you just misspoke, you need an external drive for 12bit 4K, not an external recorder. You can shoot internal 12bit 1080p, but ML Raw has an undeniably better IQ, in all respects, than the FP's FHD.
I agree about the IBIS, but I don't really see a point for ML Raw with the R5? You can already shoot internal raw. But all of the Canon IBIS cameras are Digic X, so it will be a long time before they break that code.
It will be interesting to see what they can do with the EOS-R and hopefully the M50. I'd actually be really happy if they were able to enable continuous MLV raw on the 5D4.
But I'm still really impressed with what the 5D3 with ML Raw and a Canon IS lens is capable of handheld. So maybe I'm just easily impressed. 

I spent a lot of time testing different configurations to make the FP more ergonomic. I finally found the best cage and drive to keep it, relatively, compact without going down the Dark Labs rabbit hole...

With that said, out of the box, the camera isn't much bigger than the original eos-m, so when you add a cage, the ssd, lens adapter and lens, it morphs into a much larger camera that isn't much smaller than my 5D3 but much more cumbersome.
The screen is pretty nice on the FP and excuse the pun, but with the 5D3, you can see the "magic" of raw on the LCD. With the FP, although it's a better screen, the image has a very flat, dimensional look.
Battery life isn't that great with the FP either, compared to the 5D3... I'd say you can get about 45 minutes, or so.
In some ways, the FP would probably work better if fully rigged out or if the barebones camera was on a gimbal with the SSD attached to the gimbal's handle.
With my current setup, I'd say @BTM_Pix 's approach using M mount lenses would probably be the most compact route. I've been looking at some LTM lenses, so we'll see.
In a perfect world, I'd have the money to buy an R5C or R5ii when it gets released, but that doesn't seem likely, so I'll decide what to do with my FP.
To tell the truth, if someone offered me a good price, I'd consider selling it right now. I got OpenAI for video now. 

4K raw looks clean but I prefer the look from the 5D3. The 14bit color helps with the highlights. But I do like the FP.

As I'm sure you know and you just misspoke, you need an external drive for 12bit 4K, not an external recorder. You can shoot internal 12bit 1080p, but ML Raw has an undeniably better IQ, in all respects, than the FP's FHD.
I agree about the IBIS, but I don't really see a point for ML Raw with the R5? You can already shoot internal raw. But all of the Canon IBIS cameras are Digic X, so it will be a long time before they break that code.
It will be interesting to see what they can do with the EOS-R and hopefully the M50. I'd actually be really happy if they were able to enable continuous MLV raw on the 5D4.
But I'm still really impressed with what the 5D3 with ML Raw and a Canon IS lens is capable of handheld. So maybe I'm just easily impressed. 

Allthough you need an external recorder. (something I don't like because it makes the setup too big and defeats the joy for shooting for me). + the IBIS is not to be underestimated.

But the sigma FP does have an nice image.  

Haven't thought about that. @mercer 🙂 How do you like the output and experience compared to the 5DIII?
Eos M50 would also be a fun little raw cam. Looking forward to that one. It has a Digic8 processor just like the Eos R. @Andrew Reid
 

I suspect you've fallen foul of the "y" being adjacent to the "t" on the keyboard there.

It's called a Sigma FP and I assume it's due for an update soon. 

It's called a Sigma FP and I assume it's due for an update soon. 

One of the people from magic lantern figured that the bandwidth on the 7D MKII might also allow for DCI 4K Raw 12bit. That would be pretty sweet. So far they tested it for 1984x1068, 14bits 24p. Looking forward to the upcoming news.
One testclip of the og EOS R recording 1080p 30p raw is online. Just check the slashcam website yourself with autotranslate.:) The Digi 8 processor of the EOS R is also powering the EOS M50.
https://www.slashcam.de/news/single/Erstmals-Magic-Lantern-RAW-auf-EOS-R-mit-Digic-8-a-18410.html

We hope it happens on page 24.

22 pages on...  and nothing has been learned.