DevonChris

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To simplify the discussion: a 42.5mm/f1.2 lens on MFT has the sane DoF as a 42.5mm/f1.2 lens on FF, but a narrower angle of view.

Actually this is wrong!

A 42.5mm f/1.2 lens on MFT has the same depth of field as a 42.5mm f/2.4 on FF as well as a narrower field of view as you mentioned.

So if you want the depth of field that a FF f/1.2 lens gives you on MFT, you will need a f0.6 lens

38 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Take a picture out of a magazine. Take a pair of scissors. Cut out a x3 crop piece. Did the dof change?

 

I think you and I must be talking about different things. 

You seem to be saying that a crop sensor only takes a small part of a scene (ie taking a pair of scissors to it) whereas in actual fact it records the whole scene but with a narrower field of view, which is then subject to the physics that creates a deeper depth of field that I mentioned above.

2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

A cropped sensor doesn't affect exposure or dof, so the conversion is pointless imo.

Hi Mattias

Whereas you are correct that a cropped sensor does not affect exposure, you are wrong about it not affecting depth of field.

I think you know that a small sensor video camera (ie a typical ENG camera) cannot achieve narrow DoF, whereas a FF DSLR can achieve narrow DoF. 

So if I set up a MFT and put on it a 50mm manual lens (no sb) and measure the light with a light meter to be 5.6 at ISO 200 at 1/50, I set the lens and camera up with those settings and achieve perfect exposusre.  I then take that lens off and put it on a FF DSLR next to the MFT camera, leave the lens settings the same and set up the DSLR with those ISO and SS settings, I will also acieve perfect exposure.

This is because f stop is a ratio between aperture and focal length, so sensor size does not influence exposure, as you stated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-number

However, as the MFT sensor is smaller than the FF DSLR, it has a greater DoF for the same focal length when compared to a FF camera. So when you look through the view finder of the FF DSLR using exactly the same lens and settings as we used on the MFT, you will see a narrower DoF.

This is explained here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_of_field

This quote from the article summarises it.

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Moreover, the larger the format size, the longer a lens will need to be to capture the same framing as a smaller format. In motion pictures, for example, a frame with a 12 degree horizontal field of view will require a 50 mm lens on 16 mm film, a 100 mm lens on 35 mm film, and a 250 mm lens on 65 mm film. Conversely, using the same focal length lens with each of these formats will yield a progressively wider image as the film format gets larger: a 50 mm lens has a horizontal field of view of 12 degrees on 16 mm film, 23.6 degrees on 35 mm film, and 55.6 degrees on 65 mm film. Therefore, because the larger formats require longer lenses than the smaller ones, they will accordingly have a smaller depth of field. Compensations in exposure, framing, or subject distance need to be made in order to make one format look like it was filmed in another format.

So this is why lenses designed for MFT are smaller than an equivalent lens for FF. Sensor size compensates for absolute focal length ie a Panny 12-35 is equivalent in FoV to a Nikon 24-70 FF lens, but at the cost of shallow DoF.

Unfortunately this means that however good the Nocticron is, it can only achieve the minimum depth of field of a FF equivalent lens set at f/2.4 so it is very unlikely that the subject seperation will be as good as the Noctilux.

13 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

Im slowly scaling down. 1st step to recovery was to quit buying the "just in case/one day i'll need it" focal lengths that you never use. I had wide angles catching dust lol @Geoff CB

I wouldn't sell the nikkor glass unless you plan on shooting with sony a7 series. That big ass mount you need for nikon lenses can make the camera toooo front heavy imo. For a panny camera I'd keep the nikkor cause of that speedbooster ?

Nice shot btw !

Yep. I can't see myself moving to the a7 series as I'm happy with MFT and Nikon bodies.

I'm struggling with the decision to stay with my AiS set (and maybe add the 50 1.2), build up a Contax set or go all out for Leica R's. I foolishly sold my 35 and 90mm Summicrons about five years ago, and I'm missing them.

Contax glass does rock. I shot this still for a gig last week using a 50mm 1.7 AEJ on a GX8 (using an adaptor, not speedbooster). The lens is amazingly sharp and has great colours as kidzrevil said.

2 minutes ago, Nikkor said:

Yes.

Ah Ok. Thanks for your feedback. Doesn't sound great from your experience. Wish I could find one to try out.

16 minutes ago, Nikkor said:

I don't think the lens is worth it. I might have a bad copy, who knows, but I don't like the rendering except for face closeups. It also has some sort of a cold look. I think any cheap 50 1.4 is the better choice.

Hi Nikkor. Is it the Nikon 50 1.2 that you were talking about?

Cheers

There's not much discussion about the Nikon 50mm f/1.2 AiS lens which seems to be awesome, as the 9 blade aperture creates fantastic bokeh and you get almost the low light capabilities of the Voigt 0.95, and maybe even betters it with a speed booster.

I am seriously thinking about this Nikon, but I've held back so far because on MFT with a speedbooster it is still a bit long at 75mm FF equivalent.

You can get them new in the UK for around £340 so it is a lot cheaper than the Voigt 0.95's.

Another advantage of the Nikon is that it is portable to other systems whereas the Voigts are limited to the MFT platform.

Any thoughts?

5 hours ago, jase said:

For sure the micro is quite tempting, but I have to admit that rigging doesnt really match my profile of using a camera. But the specs of the BMMCC in a BMPCC v2 and I would maybe even forget about how nice stabilisation is. In the meantime, lets find out about the GX80

Jase, I've watched your Splash 2014 video five or six times and I love the way that you convey the atmosphere of the festival. If the GM1 and Voigt gave you the flexibilty and simplicity to tell the story so well, then I reckon that you've done the right thing in buying the Voigt again

Contax 50mm 1.7 MMJ on a GX8 using a standard CY to MFT adaptor. Shot at F1.7

1 hour ago, kidzrevil said:

right now I am torn between nikkor and contax zeiss. Since I do not want to get in the habit of buying hella lenses I won't use I am torn between getting the Contax Zeiss 28mm f2 and 50mm f1.4 and how I can use nikkor 20mm f2.8 ais, nikkor 55mm f1.2

I have the Nikkor 28 AIS and use it with a Metabones on a GX8. It rocks. I also used it extensively on a Nikon 810 (for stills and video) and it worked well with that too so it is fine in high resolution systems.

I have a Contax 50 1.7 MMJ which is nice but I notice that I don't get as much focus peaking on the GX8 as I do with the 28mm AIS, so it isn't as sharp. Still has nice rendering though.

10 hours ago, Mat Mayer said:

The main reason I still use my Macbook is to use Preview and screenshots. It is really easy to resize images. Doesn't seem to be an easy way on Windows. If Apple can make it standard to take a screenshot of a part of the screen and show the pixel size, plus allow to easily cut an image up and past it, surely Windows can do similar. Instead I am probably going to order Photoshop just to do this a couple of times a month on Windows, which seems like overkill (unless I discover a Chrome extension). The only other reason to use it is when out and want lightweight laptop with long battery. Want to ditch it for a Chromebook one day; Apple are too "premium"and awkward with things like transferring files.

Check out the snipping tool in Windows 10. Pretty neat as it works better than the Mac screenshot functionality

It's easy selling great lenses, but you have to watch out that you don't regret it later on. 

I had 35mm and 90mm Leica R Summicrons from my film photog days that I sold for way more than I paid for them.  Boy do I regret selling those lenses now!

Unfortunately the Windows stand alone version is not compatible with 4K screens

8 minutes ago, Fatalfury said:

I think the IS on GX80/GX85/GX7-M2 is mechanically implemented thanks to the new compact sensor tech. GX8 itself is in difficult situation when the lower end model is in some (actually very important) ways more advanced model. Shame that the GX80 battery is so weak, but that problem will be liquidated in GH5. 

Yep.  I use my GX8 for both video and photos and am getting very good results with the well stabilised 1080 video, even if it is only 4 axis.

Buying a GX80 as well might be a great option for dedicated video, but the audio syncing and lack of tilting screen is a pain. 

But it doesn't have a tilting screen which is excellent on the GX8

I wonder if the 5 axis IBIS implementation in the GX85 is software implemented and can therefore be firmware upgradeable for the GX8.

Panasonic GX8. The stabilisation is good with Panny lenses, particularly in 1080.  The audio is very good and the continuous autofocus and face detection is excellent. This camera continues to surprise me with its versatilty and excellent image quality.

Just noticed that Dell Outlet UK has 10% discounts for XPS 13 and XPS 15 laptops now. The offer lasts until 2nd March.

11 minutes ago, red said:

Dell Outlet UK have had some great prices on both the XPS13 and XPS15 in recent days. Tempted to replace my ageing MacBook Pro.

Yep. I bought ours from the Dell outlet during their recent Valentines sale when they offered 10% off their outlet prices. Our XPS15 cost £917 including three years next day warranty and I think thats a bargain for its quality.

It was amazing to watch how fast the refurbs were selling during that sale. You had to be really quick to snap one up.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is an Easter sale at the outlet too.

On 17 February 2016 at 9:14 PM, gsenroc said:

Dell monitors are very nice, including those in their XPS laptops indeed. In fact I know most of my friends are/were using Dell for photography editing and they do recommend them. For the price it's really nice.

I thought I'd give an update on the conundrum.

I coaxed my Macbook Air back into life and will keep it for a while. Apple must be close to releasing updated Macbooks soon so it is worth waiting a few months to see what they release.

They are falling badly behind in the specs race so their new specs must be good to be competitive.

I did buy my wife a Dell XPS i5/8GB with1080 screen though and wow it is good. As gsenroc said, the screen is really good and very sharp. We're not using it for editing videos, but photos look really great on it.

It is very fast and the improved wifi makes a real difference. Dell support has been great too, so it has been an excellent purchase so far.

I think the version with a UHD monitor will be fantastic so I am very tempted.....

1 hour ago, gsenroc said:

Dell monitors are very nice, including those in their XPS laptops indeed. In fact I know most of my friends are/were using Dell for photography editing and they do recommend them. For the price it's really nice.

I'm 50/50 video/photography which is why colour fidelity is important.  Thanks for your comment.

11 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

Don't listen to the average person over the internet. You have to calibrate the monitor or at least download the profile that was developed at notebookcheck. 

I have been using the previous generation XPS and it has a great monitor. Peple were just using the wrong settings! See a report at anandtech.  

Awesome information, Don. Many thanks.

I normally calibrate my monitors with Xrite, however I wasn't sure about the high white balance mentioned in the reviews.

I like FCPX so I will miss it. I also use Premiere on my desktop PC, so its not a problem to chose one over the other, although I don't like the Adobe subscription model.

I came across some YT video reviews about the XPS, which say that the screens have over saturated colours and white balance issues.

Hmmm, this is not an easy decision!

8 minutes ago, Calum MacPhail said:

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, but the MBP is supposed to be moving to Skylake (new cpus) in the next few months, so there will be a refresh. If you are going for an integrated GPU, the new models will have a better one. Though in saying that, its a lot to spend on a work laptop without getting one with a GPU. Apple moved back to AMD graphics with their last MBP refresh and I think theres mixed feelings about this as theres no longer CUDA support. Personally, I know a lot of people say you have to get on the bus eventually and cant keep waiting for the next computer to come out, but I'd seriously wait for the next machines this time and maybe save the extra to get a dedicated graphics card if you are set on a RMBP.

Apple have got to catch up in the specs war, as they are being outgunned at the moment, it seems.

A MBP with a Skylake cpu and a dedicated GPU would be fantastic, but chances are it will also be expensive and I'm not sure I can wait a couple of months as I use a laptop a lot.

33 minutes ago, M Carter said:

If it's just the SSD failing, they're dirt cheap these days. Just clone up a new one from the backup you do every night. (You do backup every night, right?) 

That won't get you more horsepower, but I still run an old G4 aluminum laptop for music to one of my stereos, they're handy to have around and a 2011 could be the heart of an on-set footage transfer rig. Would at least keep your current machine running or give it resale value.

Thanks, Michael. I had wondered about changing the SSD on the MB Air. Luckily I had it hooked up with Time Machine so at least the data is ok. Good point about using it for on set data transfers if I can get it running again.

34 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Don't get a high end Macbook for that price unless it has dedicated graphics. Iris Pro... no thanks!

Has to be Nvidia or AMD for future proof Premiere / Resolve / video editing performance and at least 2GB video RAM. At least.

The CPU and all the rest is nowhere near as important as the GPU for video editing.

Hmmm those Iris Pro graphics seem to be a showstopper. I'm not going to spend £2 k plus on a MBP with dedicated graphics.  Maybe it's time to say goodbye to Macs.

Thank for all the help so far.