IronFilm

The fact that we're comparing Nikon, which until four years ago was called "potato" in videographers community, with Panasonic, which was making pro video cameras when my mother was a young girl, and score points are about "anamorphic modes", is crazy if you think about that.
Anyway, feature leapfrogging is a never ending game. You get a capability in brand X that is missing in brand Y, but you get something unique in brand Y that is still missing in X. After two years, both will have them eventually with some differences in implementation. Decisions, in my opinion, should be based on "system advantages", not feature set. I love to have eye control AF in Canon cameras, but RF system is the most restrictive, while the native lens choices is like super cheap/super exotic. But some people would say they have 50% of the market share so there should be good reasons half of people bet on this system, and its ok. I don't think thats a good logic for choosing a system, but at least its an evaluation about the system, not the features. 

In-camera is the key because you need to check it on the spot. Only Panasonic does that in-camera.
Again, the key is in-camera and checking your result on the spot. Otherwise, you're going to have to go out again. Also, it takes half the time for long exposures. You watch it as it builds.
I reckon a cinema camera would be better then. If you're going to slap a Atomos on it, then you need to add that to the price too.
Yes, I understand. However, for the wedding photographer lugging this camera around all day, every little bit helps.
It's great to look at the hardware specs, but the software increases the usability massively. Also, Lumix is not shy about their firmware updates. No one actually knows what is going to be in-store for the S1rii as a lot of features might be added.

There are some significant negatives on the Z8 versus the S1rii:
No Open Gate No IN-CAMERA Live View Composite No IN-CAMERA Pixel Shift No Waveforms No False Color No IN-CAMERA 32-bit audio possibilities No anamorphic modes No anamorphic-specific IBIS Not great IBIS at wide angles No breathing compensation for Z-mount lenses The Z8 is about 100g heavier Maybe, they'll add some of these in a firmware update, but then again I'm rather certain Panasonic will also add stuff. These negatives were just off the top of my head, but I imagine there are more.
The crazy thing is that the specs today are so good that it doesn't really matter all that much. All of the cameras will do; some just have a few more features than others.
What sucks about reviews in general is that you watch them and you cannot help thinking that they are significantly impacted by how the company treated them in the past or present. Apparently, retribution is a real thing in the camera review business.

Even MFT lenses can find a home on the Z mount.
Yes it will only be for manual but that encompasses a lot of very fine and affordable lenses (particularly cine) that can be used and the vast majority of those will cover APS-C.

https://pixco.com.cn/products/micro-4-3-nikon-z-adapter

Even an "ancient" Nikon D800 still does "good" image quality by 2025 standards. 
Basically for a number of years then stills performances have been in a plateau of at best gradual improvement in image quality. Eventually we're starting to see the same happen for video image performance as well.
 

Perhaps it would be an S3 by hierarchy then. But yes, I get your point and definitely agree. There were more hybrid/video improvements than photo, I may be wrong though.
 
Perhaps the general reception is mixed since the expectation was already set for what the R is focusing in on. Maybe R is for resolution now (44mp + 8k recording) not just stills…?
The camera is fine though. I’m still surprised we’re debating this heavy about a (supposedly) photo first-camera with photo-first compromises on a video-focused forum but let’s be honest and call it like it is: it was DOA for most people not for what the camera could ultimately be but for how behind and underdeveloped LUMIX let their PRO flagship lineup and lens roadmap get in the eyes of the current and potential customers. And uncertain brand confidence in future product releases, making investing in the mount a hesitant choice. The outrage is less puzzling to me when I view it from that angle. But remember, pre- Z9, Nikon also faced the same challenges in brand confidence and future uncertainty. Now folks are switching to Z8, what a time.
 

Good points for sure. It’s funny that Z mount enjoys the same system-stealing benefit amongst mirrorless mounts that E mount had for DSLR lenses. 
Ohhhh man don’t get me started. The biggest fumble Panasonic made was not thinking about the m43 transition to FF. We talk about switching costs… Panny sabotaged their own users here. Unforced error.
I meant for folks that prefer to buy new, that used prices were irrelevant, but there’s probably not a ton of those folks. And good point, inexpensive and used E mount lenses are everywhere. 
Completely with you here. 

At the end of the day I really want Panasonic to succeed. Despite their current place in the market, I do think they drive innovation amongst all the manufacturers. They offer a distinct and useful product line that fits with my workflow very well. Without the L Mount alliance, such as it is, they’d be in deep trouble I think. 

I get your point and hell, I'd consider a used camera for less money even if it wasn't in mint condition! But we can't expect any camera company to price a camera based on what the used prices are, you know? $3300 is still a competitive price and if the Z8 stays at $3400 I suspect we'll see the price edge downward by the fall, along with bundles to make it even more enticing.
There are also ways in which the Z8 is a "worse" camera, too, like IBIS, auto focus, cinema assist tools, etc. It doesn't even feel right to call one camera "worse" than the other though, haha, because in the big picture both are really great cameras.

This isn't my experience with the Sigma MC-21 or the Fotodiox ND Throttle adapter. Both work quite well with most EF lenses I have been able to try, including on the S5II with excellent autofocus. And its nice to have an ND filter behind the lens - though this can be accomplished on other mounts with a proper adapter.

More generally though, I would agree that L-mount lens options are both uninspiring and limited - especially compared to E-Mount. Basically all I use are adapted Contax and EF lenses, and for this the L-bodies are fine. But in terms of native glass, I have one lens - the 24-105, which is boring and competently utilitarian. Even voigtlander options which were such a strong point of the M43 ecosystem (the f0.95 series!) are non-existent. This I think is really the downfall of the system - it's not even the bodies but the lenses. There's ridiculously priced leica lenses, and bland expensive offerings from Panasonic, or sigma lenses that I am admittedly reluctant to invest in given the overall weakness of the ecosystem.

I think one thing that has kept me from migrating from the S1 / S1H is the desire to own a hybrid that supports a good XLR unit. The XLR unit on sony appeals greatly, but 12 megapixel sensors on the video-centric cameras seem lacklustre for photography. I really just want one camera that does everything, and the S1H is 99% of the way there, for me.

There are also, in this price range, a hell of a lot of interesting options that one could start to consider for filmmaking - I'm seeing used Alexas, C300 IIs, C70s all kind of reaching into this price range second hand.

An interesting aside - I talked with some of the filmmakers behind No Other Land - and while I'm not sure of every camera used, the GH5 played a major role. It's a generational workhorse, IMO, not unlike the Canon 5D MK II / MK III.

I still think of what a massive leap the GH5 represented from previous systems I'd used, and how I don't think there's been a hybrid to represent a similar generational leap in technology yet. We're in an era of more incremental progress, which is perhaps why the S1RII feels underwhelming - for not being a 'perfect' camera.

My gripe with some of the tit for tat comparisons is they almost always ignore the reality of switching costs for folks with established kits. Would a Sony A7iii shooter looking for a higher resolution upgrade be persuaded to switch to the S5Rii versus the A7Rv? Most of the time, probably not. It's hard to get people to switch systems with one camera body, for good reason. Personally, I switched back to Panasonic after 2 years with Sony. The thing that clinched it wasn't actually Panasonic—it was Blackmagic! 

For those folks looking to start buying into their first camera system Panasonic offers the best value setup both new or used. Some people prefer to buy new things in general so a used Z8 being the same price as a new S5Rii is irrelevant. And, if they don't mind used, Panasonic is an even further better value.
 
What Panasonic really needs is consistency moving forward. It's been a long time since the original S1R and S1H. Release these cameras and establish some sort of regular rhythm to firmware updates and new bodies in the future and they'll regain customers over time. But, one amazing camera wouldn't do it. A good system will.

Agreed. For a new camera you can't beat the value. It's not really fair to hold used prices against it, either. Is Lumix supposed to price it to match the R5 or Z8's used prices? I don't fault anyone that decides to buy those instead, but Lumix can't control that. 

Some believe Panasonic is on the verge of shutting down, a narrative that a few users continue to push. I suppose their decision to release the S1R II instead of an S1H II only fuels that perception. The main criticism of the S1R II is its rolling shutter—something even Panasonic has acknowledged, advising those who prioritize it to choose a different camera. Essentially, Panasonic can't win. Pack everything into a camera, and it's too expensive. Leave something out, and it’s not "the very best." The real question is whether it offers good value—and, like most Panasonic cameras (new and used), it clearly does.

I'm honestly a little shocked at the reception to the camera on some forums. It provides a fair bit of upgrades to both the S5ii and the S1R while still staying at a lower price point than the competition, and even it's own predecessor. It seems to me that every brand's offerings are more or less the same with little differences here and there while also offering their own distinct competitive advantages. I can't help but notice that many folks want Panasonic to do everything Sony or Canon does, PLUS their own thing. Or that these manufacturers have running checklists that they compare and contrast to each other line by line when developing a camera versus largely doing their own thing. 

I preordered the S1Rii so my bias is clear, but as someone heavily invested into the Lumix S system I can't see this as anything but a solid camera for their lineup.

Even an "ancient" Nikon D800 still does "good" image quality by 2025 standards. 
Basically for a number of years then stills performances have been in a plateau of at best gradual improvement in image quality. Eventually we're starting to see the same happen for video image performance as well.
 

Even an "ancient" Nikon D800 still does "good" image quality by 2025 standards. 
Basically for a number of years then stills performances have been in a plateau of at best gradual improvement in image quality. Eventually we're starting to see the same happen for video image performance as well.
 

Even an "ancient" Nikon D800 still does "good" image quality by 2025 standards. 
Basically for a number of years then stills performances have been in a plateau of at best gradual improvement in image quality. Eventually we're starting to see the same happen for video image performance as well.
 

Haha. Nice.
Must be confident in the autofocus performance then!
Although perhaps I am reading too much into it and it tells us more about the state of BBC News than anything camera related!!

HDMI has very little lag now. Major improvement finally. 

Part of the fun of this place is deciphering Emanuel's posts 😉

And the best ratio for that is 4:3.. aka M43, if Pana or Oly were smart about it they really could really make a ultimate content creator camera, but looks like Canon got the better idea than them argh.

Okay but speaking of shills, this one might be the best I've ever seen 😆
 
 

I think we have to keep in mind that we all shoot different things and use and set up cameras in different ways.
I have no care who's name is on the top of the camera in my hand and have always used multiple brands at the same time, currently have 1x R6ii, 2x S5iiX and 1x Fuji XH-2s, I have shot Lumix and Canon for like ever, so naturally feel a lot more at home with them, however always curious so will rent gear to try out and sometimes shoot along with main rig on gigs to have identical footage to judge later.
I found the Z6iii and the Z8 AF inconsistent, they have a tendency to try to find what's closest to the camera and I had lots of shots where on a talking head either the nose or ear is sharp, the camera will maintain focus and not jump back and forth, the eye AF box is locked on the eye but after import when you look closely the focus point is a few centimetres behind or in front of the eye.
Again, it could be how I set up cameras, and I'm sure there are people out there that love their Z8/9 or 6iii...
@Andrew I see your other post, You are right, the Z line does have a lot going for it which is why I have been renting them on shoots, (there is no replacement for using the camera on an actual shoot) But it just didn't quite hit it out of the park the way I was hoping for me.

Also, for those of us in the US, I just see that if you preorder the S1Rii from Adorama, not only is there the Sandisk memory offer, there is also an offer for one year (yes - subscription-based) of C1 for $50. If these are of value to you (and you will need the latest C1 for raw and tethering support), that makes the S1Rii effectively a $3k camera.
This is a pretty crazy price at release that I would not have imaged.

Back then, capturing detailed video was the priority—and the GH4 made that possible. As a bonus, it also eliminated many of the moiré issues we were dealing with. Over time, our focus shifted to achieving high-quality, detailed video with a shallow depth of field. Later, IBIS became the next major step forward.
Panasonic has been at the forefront of all these innovations. The only real drawback was autofocus in video, which eventually became the defining feature on YouTube. This killed their sales.
Fast forward to today, and most cameras have nearly everything—but Panasonic still excels in IBIS, video tools, and in-camera photographic features. Their autofocus is only slightly behind, if at all (in fact, they lag in AF far less than other brands do in IBIS, video tools, and built-in photography features). Their image quality is second to none. If there’s something drastically better that justifies a significant price jump, I’d love to hear what it is.
Sure, rolling shutter can be an issue. So can slow motion. But even Panasonic would probably agree—if those are your top priorities, you might need a different camera. Personally, I’d take slightly worse rolling shutter and slow motion in exchange for that flip-out, flip-up screen—especially if it means saving a lot of money compared to other cameras with that feature.
The "do everything" hybrid camera is not that far off. We're an in-camera ND filter and slightly faster sensor away. I bet Panasonic is going to get there first.

The problem is that the artists are loosing in this new world of social media.
I recently caught up over coffee with a few filmmaker friends here in LA. All of them work pretty regularly shooting commercials. They told me last year that roughly 60% of their content was shot vertical with 40% horizontal. Even for the "traditional" spots, many times the clients didn't like the look of the sample video and asked if it could be made to look more like a "mobile phone" They claimed that they were going for a reality based, "Tik Tok" look. This made all of us sad.
I've been working with a client that has slowly been moving away from anything on his company website or YouTube and now I'm just shooting reels for him. I used to do nice little 3-6 minute mini docs and now he just wants 12-15 short 15 second clips.