jgharding

One of the AF features that I spotted on the leaked GH6 video is that it appears to have a focus limiter function that looks very similar to the one that (*own trumpet blowing alert*) I have in my AFX product.
On the AFX, you store a near and far focus point and it will only respond to subject movement between those two distances. So you can define the range of movement of the interviewee, put it in AF-C mode and guarantee that it won't go off focusing on things in the background etc. 
With judicious use of the aperture you can set near and far distances up in such a way that you have enough overall focus range to have a safety net without massively comprising the shallow depth of field aesthetic.
It remains to be seen how Panasonic have implemented their limiter in terms of it is just for AF-S but if it is AF-C like the AFX then it is a boon for interview applications in particular.
The AFX also has a separate absolute limiter function so you can selectively limit maximum AF-C focus range to, say, 2 metres which can negate a lot of the AF issues which present themselves when people are vlogging both indoors and outdoors.
Not sure if Panasonic have implemented that in the GH6 too though.
 
 

Indeed, when given the choice between buying a Sigma lens in E or L mount, one of the big reasons for buying a modern lens rather than using classic stuff is AF. So if they can't sort out AF, the entire mount dies. No rush then!

I agree on the importance of AF.
Especially in a mirrorless camera.
In terms of the market, Blackmagic seems to have got a free pass though. Shit AF all round from them, and nobody complains and the cameras sell like hot cakes.
So what's going on?
Sony, Canon and Nikon all AF obsessed and producing very capable systems in both video and stills mode. Fuji is patchy.
I thought maybe it's Sony patents holding Panasonic to ransom, or past mistakes. But then a literal Olympus CORPSE comes out of a graveyard and gives us Quad Pixel phase-detect AF on sensor.
It's absolutely bizarre the whole thing isn't it?
As for GH6, I have one but am under NDA so can't say anything about it until it launches for real.

There's a fella on YouTube who is pretty good with the ZV1 and possibly now ZV E10 and he reckons the HLG option is where it's at also and what I am currently using.

Indeed. Should be standard on all cameras.

Fuji made a cheaper version of it in the XT100 (which was enough for me), but abandoned it.

Yeah it has an S1H vibe for sure.

It's cool and all, but i'm really anxious about this DFD AI AF. If it isn't a significant step up...

Basically you can just do as many nodes ad you like in resolve and export that as a 65-point LUT, and that becomes your match LUT, so you only do the work once.

ACES is another option, but I quite like doing things my own way tbh, using a combination of stock conversion LUTS and my own tweaks
 

Yeah the top is the sony, that's the side affect of matching for skin, as that there is a tiny tint in other areas, that is what I'll dial out with secondary

The S1H is just a coversion LUT of mine and a node before for tweaks. I think the sony match is done in about 5 nodes, could probably be condensed into fewer but I like to be able to switch each on and off
The first node in the Sony is my own LUT though, with a new cam the first thing I do is spend a couple of days making a match LUT for my main cam, it saves tons of future time
 

It would be a bonus point in my eyes if the GH6 has the same/similar tilt screen as the S1H rather than a vloggers flip out.
#bestLCDever

Here's a first pass at matching up the ZV E10 and S1H, it's not perfect with the shirt and a slight tonal difference, but getting there, definitely will be close enough once I have it finalised, so I'm pretty happy. It didn't miss focus for the whole shoot. Which is more than can be said for me.
The rolling shutter is so bad though that if someone sways back and forth their head bends HAHAHA
But in general it's great, so if sony ever release a new APSC sensor cam with faster readout I'll likely upgrade to that. Or possible an A7S3 if I find I really start to enjoy the Sony more.

I don’t think simply fixing the AF situation alone would be enough.
It would be a start, but then needs some shouting about as a brand/system.
My fingers are crossed, but I’m not holding my breath.
The ‘savior’ of the DFD could be computing power from what I understand…but that’s not something I know too much about.
GH6 will be an indicator. 

Looks pretty good to me.  If someone notices then they're probably not paying attention to the subject matter.
I watched a YT video on colour matching different cameras and the guy said that the footage needs to look "like it comes from the same universe" which I thought made a lot of sense, as essentially as long as the colour differences aren't so obvious that they break the illusion then they won't be noticeable and so are fine.
Interesting that the top one has the greener mids (the shirt) and the more magenta shadows (the shadow on the wall) compared to the bottom one, when they've been matched on skintones and the wall colour.
How much colour work did you have to do for these shots? 

Identical to a T, except ZV1 for me.
If I’d waited a year, I would have gone for your slightly bigger sibling, but as my use case is so limited, I’ll stick with it for this year.

Here's a first pass at matching up the ZV E10 and S1H, it's not perfect with the shirt and a slight tonal difference, but getting there, definitely will be close enough once I have it finalised, so I'm pretty happy. It didn't miss focus for the whole shoot. Which is more than can be said for me.
The rolling shutter is so bad though that if someone sways back and forth their head bends HAHAHA
But in general it's great, so if sony ever release a new APSC sensor cam with faster readout I'll likely upgrade to that. Or possible an A7S3 if I find I really start to enjoy the Sony more.

Yeah that's right! Upcoming videos on vinyl mastering and another little surprise one too! Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed radiophonic, that was quite a long day that one 🤣
 
Cheers, I was using the ZV E10 a bit on a Zhiyun Crane M3 on this day, I didn't quite get it yet, I'm a bit wobbly, but getting the hang of it. But yeah in order to use a manual focus cam on gimbal you need a wireless follow focus etc, takes forever to set up blah blah... this is way easier. You just get the shot!

yeah that's what i mean. the CUSP of perfection... on AF system away from it.

Good job @jgharding
I decided just a couple of days ago to bump up my ZV1 to gimbal duty for those occasions when I need reliable AF.
Matching it to the S1H and S5 will be even harder I suspect, but it’s currently my best and only option so…
I tried the S5 with small/light lens in the Crane M3 but it was pushing the limit really…not that I really know much (anything) about gimbals, but the ZV1 is a much better fit. And the results are always in focus which means I don’t wish to smash it to bits.

Is that Abbey Road mastering?
I very much enjoyed the Radiophonic Recordings one that you did recently so look forward to seeing this too if its on SOS at some point ?

Here's a first pass at matching up the ZV E10 and S1H, it's not perfect with the shirt and a slight tonal difference, but getting there, definitely will be close enough once I have it finalised, so I'm pretty happy. It didn't miss focus for the whole shoot. Which is more than can be said for me.
The rolling shutter is so bad though that if someone sways back and forth their head bends HAHAHA
But in general it's great, so if sony ever release a new APSC sensor cam with faster readout I'll likely upgrade to that. Or possible an A7S3 if I find I really start to enjoy the Sony more.

After using the Sony A7S3 in one occasion, I quickly realized how reliable and convenient modern AF systems have become. It makes me question why I have decided to stick with my FS7 and not upgrade to a A7S3 or FX3 (well, because I have no budget😆). The new AF system just saves so much time. 
Why Panasonic still doesn't offer a good AF system is beyond me. Almost always the improvements on the AF system are for stills. For stills, that system is great. Very accurate and fast. Somehow the AF for video mode is just bad, and in my experience, worse than even some older contrast detection AF systems. I suspect the problem is not entirely the DFD system. 
Panasonic cameras are always very close to a perfect camera. IMO, they just have to fix the AF system, and they can easily out sale other brands. 

So you may have see that Olympus latest M4/3 camera the OM-D EM1 iii (I'm not sure I could come up with a worse name as a joke) has "1053 phase-detect Cross Quad Pixel AF". 
I feel this is going to be the make or break generation for Panasonic. I recently bought a b-cam for the S1H and went for a Sony, not a Panasonic S5, due to the AF alone. In the latest Sony bodies it is nigh-on flawless for interviews, you can leave it on its own, wide open and it doesn't miss a beat. On the S1H i pull it myself, and the massive HDMI delay means I have to use the tiny screen to do it. Rumours for GH6 say it still uses DFD autofocus, now adding "AI" to the end of it and claiming this works five-times better. Which I assume means a future S body will also have some variation of DFD too... I'm waiting to see what happens, but don't have too much hope. If it isn't as good as Sony's I don't think I'll stay in the system regardless of Panasonic's superior colour and DR.
I do know the mantra "pros don't use AF" but that's just untrue in the real world, it's typical forum dogma. Pro does not just mean "working with a massive crew for a cinema film or Netflix", it means making a living from moving image making. Not everyone has a focus puller, most people don't. Professional crews are smaller these days, and AF is really useful in more circumstances than not and thus translates to sales, which translates to camera being supported, updated and made in the first place. I'm not just speaking for myself when I say AF is going to end up making me pick an inferior image quality for more convenience, it's all over the Panasonic groups too, loads of people jumping to second hand A7S3.
As much as one can worry about cameras, I worry that Panasonic will stick rigidly to their contrast AF, pretending as they do that it is usable for video or even in the same league as their competitors... I get it, it allows the sensor to remain unadulterated, but as it stands it just... doesn't work. I'd love to be proven wrong but... I think I'm out of faith.
I just think it's such a weird hill to die on. We know the other system works. Why persist with trying to fix something broken, when you could switch to a system that performs said function properly?

Nailed it. They can maybe get away with DfD in the GH6 but if their next FF S-series camera does not offer a major upgrade to AF reliability, consistency, and performance then I am of the opinion LUMIX will be on its way out. We now have cheaper cinema level cameras available with less need to buy something like the S1H for cheaper and put up with its limitations. Other video people, driven mostly my YT'ers, will buy something with amazing AF like a Sony or Canon, and maybe even Fuji.
It is literally the only feature that matters for them. They have all the rest. But it will remain a mystery why they don't put PDAF in their cameras.
At this point it would make a good investigative documentary. 

Maybe it’s a corporate level suicide pact? 🤪

I’ll only buy a new Panasonic camera if I can get continuous AF with my Helios 44M. Everything else is for amateurs.

I think you'll find that the new camera is the OM Systems Olympus OM-1 and the camera name you have quoted is a couple of years old, but otherwise, yes, Panasonic are probably doomed unless they sort the AF out.
I'm not part of the tin foil hat brigade but the few individuals who do have their heads screwed on, don't make up enough of any market to really influence it.
The simple reality is Panasonic have a fundamental marketing problem that comprises 2 parts:
Part A is that their 'ambassadors' seem to be jumping ship in recent times, mostly I presume as they individually wish to move to other camera systems.
Part A2 is that none of them are trendy YouTube influencers.
Part A3 is that they do not allow comments on any of their official channels, ie, kill any kind of community, so all 'community' is unofficial channels such as Facebook groups and a handful of YouTubers.
Part B is the AF tracking issue. It doesn't matter whether it's real or not real or it's adequate in some instances or total shit in all, it's a HUGE reputation/marketing issue directly affecting sales.
And before anyone says, "how do you know it's affecting sales?"
Because it's fucking obvious to anyone who has even the slightest understanding of how business works!
The bottom line is it may already be too late and it's just a question on time now, but the issue isn't contrast vs phase IMO, but simply one of whether it works or not that is the issue.
I don't care if the next gen is DFD, providing the AI bit does what they claim.
And what they claim is slightly vague... 5x faster.
5x faster than what?
I don't know if they even said 'faster' but they have stated it's 5x something along those lines and implying they have something they are confident in.
I hope so anyway, because I'm also a S1H/S5 user for video (and S1R for stills) and really don't want to have to move to another system for a whole load of reasons.
And am not as things stand, at least for this year, but at some point, new kit will happen because I'm a business user and what I have will not work forever.
Let's see what the GH6 is first and go from there...