Emanuel

**Haven't been active a while but have been lurking often, just not posting.  Hoping to get back to posting much much more regularly now and actually being involved in this awesome community.  Hope everyone is doing great and making awesome art that plays in sequences of frames 😉
 
"_names_are_hard" from the magic lantern forum made a post yesterday announcing a new official development team; I am not 100% sure but seems as though this was not the case sine a1ex left a few years ago.  Obviously, awesome developments have still occurred in the mean time, such as the incredible work done to the EOS M, 5d Mark iii and more to sd overclock, implement new binning modes that provide more image detail and less moire, and enable excellent previews in modes that previously rendered almost unusable to monitor.
 
Now an official development team is back, and their aim, according to the post, is to implement features into main builds; finally we do not need to dig through forum posts anymore lol...
What is even more exciting is the announcement of great improvements towards Digic 6 and Digic 7 cameras.  The Canon 200d/SL2 has an OFFICIAL build with WORKING RAW VIDEO.  This excites me, as supposedly this camera has an entire stop better dynamic range at ISO 200 than the 5d mark iii does...and DPAF to boot.  Makes me want to get one just to play around with and rig into a poor man's interview b-cam for my Nikon Z6.  The 7d mark ii, 6d mark ii and 750d/t6i also have official builds, though more work needs to be done to implement RAW video.  Still, even this is exciting news, because it looks like a point will be reached in which the aforementioned cameras all have stable RAW video.  Man...the 6d Mark II is gonna become absolutely killer and I believe might overtake the legendary 5d mark iii as the ML king...why?  Full-frame AND Dual Pixel Autofocus.  So exciting.
 
Imagine if they progress on the EOS R and we get RAW video on that...we shall see.
 
Anyways, wanted to share as I think it is exciting that the ML community is getting active again.  Although I have never personally owned a ML camera, it has always fascinated me and I want to pick up a ML-compatible Canon body, even if it's the dirt-cheap Canon 50d that makes it possible to shoot continuous 14-bit RAW video for only $86 US on ebay haha.
 
Exciting times.  Screw modern camera releases.  My 7 year old Nikon Z6 is still alive and kicking.  And these old cameras are about to become beasts.  And to me 5d mark ii/5d mark iii/eos m crop mood stuff looks just as good as your youtube shill Sony FX2 bs anyways lol...
 
https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=27315.0
 
Also here's the dirt cheap Canon 50d...I might buy one.   Literally the cheapest half decent ML RAW cam in existence:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/326652260011?_skw=canon+50d&epid=100134403&itmmeta=01JYD74BEKB8BK43GTP64YXEYE&hash=item4c0dfdeeab:g:zH4AAeSwaqVoO8fg&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAAA4FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1dPuUUXNiquWqTtYdpH3VhCftZqA2312R5f5VSKqv6B737uadt8L7po3UhjQmLj7p22fLaKrov1%2FdF7%2FPis094b98Wz%2FnMbwS7WtRhqTqfyUhYZCMMmhc9OdIad%2FLodvcJXSllJYh90xsUWRTm7vGW5QqKQBbevi0jxouClCZ%2Fbk6QKRNa9LTJsvkdX56eaU7F7IwVfBdZCHZOygCtMLm6H3MlF0YovoZEHjhhYqNq10jPFnlPCjhOBrGydgfrK%2BKuCTwN1sGX5Pb3KDZ5MpxcA|tkp%3ABk9SR7i3kafzZQ

There are no riots in Los Angeles.  Get your information from a real news source.

GX80/85 here too (they are the same camera, varies the geographic version, EU or US).
Just arrived from street back to my Lisbon base, 5 minutes ago, with one in hands... as casual shooter for covering this: https://www.portugal.com/activities-experiences/the-ultimate-guide-to-the-biggest-party-in-lisbon-santos-populares-and-santo-antonio-2024-edition/
+ FX30 with my new Sigma 16-300mm f/3.5-6.7 attached to 1.5x Clear Image Zoom and no complaints on ISO as far as low light concerns under street bulbs by night, go figure for 4K 25p always under ISO 1000;
+ Osmo Pocket 3 which didn't leave the case this time and it's one of my favs;
+ Insta360 One X2 in my shirt pocket, despite its terrible low light/night shooting performance other than my beloved Osmo, the same, never came out...
 
Its small form factor with the cheap kit 12-32mm f/3.5-5.6 lens makes it unique. Didn't even feel the need to use my Osmo, can you imagine?
And Panasonic batteries last and last... A single battery for all night long, two batteries for Sony.
 
Follow @kye's entry for everything else, it's for free and you have there more with him than whoever else here or anywhere out there ;- )

Congratulations on your purchase! 
I have the GX85, which apparently is very similar to the GX80, but you might notice small differences perhaps, so I guess maybe not everything I say below will apply to you.
I shoot run-n-gun fast-paced stuff so probably very similar to the challenges you are facing.  Here is how I setup and use my GX85.
This is the screen, showing lots of handy info.

Going from top right, here's what I do.
I use the custom modes to store different configurations.  In this case, it's in C3 and that is fully-manual.  You can't set the mode (ie, PASM) once you've created the custom mode, you need to create the custom mode with the right PASM mode.  To do this you choose the right PASM mode that you want to use using the top dial, then save that configuration to the custom mode with the "Cust Set Mem" function, and then you can change to that custom mode using the top dial and then further customise that custom mode.
I use the standard profile.  I've done lots of testing and the standard profile is the most flexible if you're going to further tweak the colours in post.  If not, feel free to choose whatever mode you like.
I use focus peaking and have set it to a custom button to switch between the high and low sensitivities.  I use this in combination with making the display black and white so the peaking is more visible.
No flash.
4k 24p.
I've setup back-button focus.  This means the camera is in MF mode, but I have configured the AE/AF Lock button to enable AF while you hold it down.  The way I shoot with an AF lens is to push in that button, see what it focuses on (which is obvious because of the peaking) and then I release the button, then I hit record.  This means that the focus doesn't change during the shot.  This means the focus isn't hunting around all over the place, it's not focusing on the persons hand or on the person that walks in between you and your subject, it doesn't focus on the background if they move in frame, etc.
It won't follow them if their focus distance changes, which can ruin some shots, but my experience is that AF jumping around ruins more shots than the subject moving does.  Plus, if the subject moves slightly the aesthetic of them being slightly out of focus for a bit is far less objectionable than the AF jumping around for no reason.
IBIS is enabled.
IBIS gets a lot of criticism but if you stand still and hold the camera as still as you can then the IBIS will simply help you to be more stable and the jitters and jello effects can be reduced entirely.  Shooting in fast situations means that tripods and monopods are often too slow and cumbersome, but if you try and emulate a tripod by using IBIS (or better yet, combine IBIS with OIS from a stabilised lens) then you can easily get very stable hand-held shots that with a tiny bit of stabilisation in post can be perfectly locked off without and artefacts at all.
I set my AF to be in the middle of the frame, which combined with back-button focus is really fast and usable.  Even if you do the photography thing of putting the subject in the middle, doing AF, then setting up your composition, it all works perfectly.
I expose using the histogram.
Exposure is a big topic, but I have done extensive testing and have concluded the following.  
In the Standard profile, you can do quite significant changes to exposure and WB in-post, even with simple tools, if you keep the exposure in the middle.  The limits are that if something is clipped then it's clipped (of course!) and if it's in the noise floor then it's also gone.  Apart from that, you have lots of flexibility.
Audio meters show the levels.  I use auto-levelling, but audio isn't really a big part of what I do and if you only shoot short clips like I do then any variation in level that it introduces isn't going to be much over a short clip, and it saves more shots by adjusting itself than it ruins.  You can always set it to manual if you like.
Aperture and shutter speed.  I always use 1/50s when I shoot manually.  Adjust as you see fit, depending on if you want to expose with shutter speed and not use a vND.  Personally, I find that not having the exposure going up and down randomly is a good thing, and adjusting the shutter speed with the dial is just as painful as adjusting a vND.  
If you're using a manual lens then you can just set the camera once, and then all your controls are on the lens (vND, aperture, focus) so that's a really nice way of working.  Lighting doesn't change that much, especially in daytime exteriors, so it's not a big deal.  I've swapped to a high quality 2-5 stop vND and it's got enough range for daytime if you're willing to stop down a bit during the brightest bits.  In busy outdoor situations you don't want to blur the crap out of the background anyway, so stopping down is actually more relevant than isolating subjects to the point where the shot could have been taken anywhere.
The exposure meter is sometimes useful, but it's dumb.  For example if you're shooting a person and a white van drives past in the background it thinks that you should change the exposure.  Obviously that's dumb because you're shooting the person and not the van.
ISO200 = base ISO.  This camera doesn't have great high-ISO, so stick to base ISO when you can.
WB = 5600K.  I shoot exclusively in this mode.  After using auto-WB for many years, I've come to realise that while different lights appear different with a fixed WB, things look like what they are.  During the day things look right, sunset looks very warm but looks right, fluorescent lights look green but that also looks right.  I rarely change WB in post now, and if I do it's to even out and tiny variations between shots just to polish the final video.
My final piece of advice is to get a native zoom lens.  Either the 12-35mm F2.8 or 14-140mm F3.5-5.6 are great, but the 14-42mm kit lens is also very capable and not to be underestimated.  In complex situations you are often restricted in where you can move to, and will often want to zoom in to control your compositions.  Having AF speeds up your shooting substantially, especially when you might only have seconds to get rolling when you see a moment about to happen.
Happy to discuss further if you have questions, and I recommend searching around here, I've been posting lots of stuff over the years, including lots of tests and sharing what I have learned.
Also happy to talk about strategies for shooting coverage, etc.
Once you buy the gear and learn the settings you can make a video.  It's what's in front of the camera and what's behind the camera that determine how good that video will be.

I forgot that for exposure I also use Zebras to show what is clipped.  
To expand on my exposure strategy, I try to expose to the right (ETTR) but making sure that the only things being clipped are things I'm ok with being clipped.  If the DR of the scene is significant, you have a decent ability to bring up the image in post, so underexposing high-DR scenes can be a good strategy.
This might sound silly, but when shooting in available light, having the sun clipped is just fine, at night having lights clipped is fine, etc.  The GX85 image can always be brought up in post, but you can't bring it down if something is clipped.
I have a good thread on testing the GX85 here.
Here is an example of the torture test I did with exposure and WB.
These are the test images SOOC:

Note that these are horrifically wrong in exposure and WB.  This is a torture test after all!
After correction:

Small adjustments in exposure or WB are completely possible in post.  

I have one on the way after looking at the image samples here:
https://www.gsmarena.com/xiaomi_14_ultra-review-2683p5.php
The 75mm F1.8 lens in particular...



Like some of the famous Zeiss Distagons it has a floating element to get close.
With such a fast aperture in combination with the close-focussing abilities make it look incredible.
The 14 Ultra in fact has two such lenses, a 75mm and 120mm.
And the main imager is 1"
Which also in the close-to-mid focus range has a very shallow DOF.

I have lighted tweaked that last one in Pixelmator Pro, the JPEGs have a surprising amount of chonkiness to play with.
Then there's the RAW capabilities...
With Motion Cam Pro there's the RAW Cinema DNG recording.
Within Xiaomi's own camera app is the expert RAW mode for stills, with Leica's colour tuning.
This allows you to completely turn off any noise reduction and sharpening... one of the main caveats of modern smartphones.
I think at £600 used this is the real deal.
The 15 Ultra doesn't change things very much, indeed to go any better would require a big leap.
We're talking at least Micro Four Thirds size sensor instead of 1", and F1.4 maximum aperture.
And to make this pocketable is going to require a lot of physics bending.
There are some other options like the Oppo Find 7 Ultra, and Vivo X100 Pro which have a large 1/1.4" sensor on the telephoto lens, 200MP.
But the lens quality itself is a bit compromised as a result.
The Vivo X100 Pro has the Zeiss modes, Zeiss lens simulations, even RAW video built into the main camera app I believe.
But I find Xiaomi's image processing with Leica to be the best of the bunch.
Looking forward to when it turns up from CEX this weekend with the photography kit which gives it ability to use filters and a proper shutter release button!
I think for street photography requiring stealth, 3 lenses in one pocket and very high speed, this is a better choice than a proper camera, X100 VI or Leica Q. The ultimate shot getter?

Defocus Test:  1+8 pro with Vega20mm @f2 wide open  (78mm FF equivalent) Vs canon 5D3 with Lomo 75mm @f4

1+8 pro with Helios 58mm on a steady tripod, 226mm FF equivalent.

Have an 11 Ultra since it came out and it does provide wonderful image quality in MotionCam and McPro24Fps.
Three things makes photography a difficult task on it though;
For street photography I need an app that opens fast and captures fast (preferably the native camera app)
1. When you select 5x in the camera app it crops into the main sensor instead of switching to the native zoom sensor. You have to zoom to 10x and then to 5x again to fix it, every time.
2. The audio clips even at low levels and concerts can't be recorded at all for example.
3. The processing is bad on the native app and has a lot of smoothing and way too much contrast. So raw is really the only option.
None of these was fixed for it.
Considering the 15 Ultra and it does seem much better in most respects, but I'm not sure I trust Xiaomi after all this. GCam looks great on it though, if it´s fast enough.
Anybody has any input on how 14/15 Ultra is to use in practice? The images in this thread does look great.

Flexible Colour Picture Controls.
I have been waiting a long time for this. A Z6 III feature, first the Zf got it, now the Z8.
It's effectively a full grading suite on-camera, bringing in-camera colour profiles far ahead of what Nikon offered before.
The latest NX Studio Software used to create profiles and export to camera.
It is much more advanced than the Canon Picture Profile creator software too.
As good as having real-time LUTs.
Pixel Shift + Focus Shift at same time is also pretty mega. Like having a 200MP medium format camera for macro, close-ups and product shots.

Now its even a better camera
 

I hope the author receives just compensation for their idea!
 

The one we know is the other one, but OK thanks for your heads-up! : ) We have another case very likely then... This is a plague. 
I have nothing against technology but those people who tend to take advantage from illegitimate access? We're obviously talking about something else in fact...
On that case, we're studying right now a legal action based on copyright claim. Now you've brought another case. I've just notified the author on your finding.

Right.  That's what I'm saying - the plot is nearly the same as your friend's.
"Chichi (Sienna Stevens) writes a letter to Santa Claus for Christmas but accidentally misspells Santa's name. This leads to the letter finding its way to Satan (Paolo Contis), who answers to the girl's wishes. Satan attempts to tempt Chichi to evil, but the girl's virtues resists the demon's plans and changes him instead."
Yes, and a number of those evil assholes own the companies that make large language models. 

Are you saying that you trained an LLM entirely on things where you owned the copyright and all other appropriate rights?  If so, that's cool and ethical.
On the other hand, if you're saying that you used one of the existing LLM's that were made by OpenAI/Google/HuggingFace/etc, then you're not using your own stuff.  You're using a tool that could not exist without massive copyright theft on a previously unprecedented scale.
The part that's black and white to me is silicon valley buttholes who have admitted that their business model cannot possibly function without stealing content.  I've heard that some people (Getty images, maybe?) are allowing people to opt in to AI training for some compensation.  I think those people will be short sighted and a bit foolish, but the resulting AI would be, in my opinion, fully ethical.
Maybe I'll go ask AI how to make my dick bigger than everyone's.
That is also very bad.  But "Hollywood also steals things" is a kind of a terrible justification for "AI companies steal things."  Was your friend's script the one that was used for the Filipino film that google tells me also exists with that name that was made by Mavx productions?  If not, it seems like the Phillipines also stole from your friend (and that's also bad).  But also, knowing that the other exists makes me want to intentionally not see the Hollywood release and go see the other one, at least partly because I don't like supporting that kind of theft.
The phrase doesn't make a lot of sense in English so I don't think you'll have to worry too much about it being stolen.  Did you mean something like "Where people present things with good will, a thief finds victims?"
 

Impressive @kye no idea what this forum would be without you, really. Food for thought. You're such an asset and a few people here, if no more or/and elsewhere, miss you when you're absent : )
You've summed up the whole thing : ) it's all about that, no more no less, one of the reasons why people love (and use) anamorphics :- )

I already do it daily, just not here... ; ) Well, I think it's natural Andrew has a scope for his forum on his favourite tools. Nothing against, I actually share his love as I'm sure everyone here do.
The fact we have now a sub-forum especially dedicated to these other tools only bring those people there really interested to look for information on them, so I believe such approach ends helpful.
So far, a new thread I started here 24 hours ago has only about 1/6 of the views compared to one in the main section. It really narrows down the audience to those specifically interested in these tools, which is kind of a bonus.
 
Yet regarding your comment about energy drinks, I suggest it’s better to finish with water instead ;- )

There's also something else to add as point I guess, the fact they tend to each year launch a new version à la GoPro business model and they're not always a jump as far as specs/performance concerns.
Despite the fact sometimes they bring some valuable tool as said above — it's the case of X5 this year, as for instance.
 
Osmo Pocket 3 is yet another (revolutionary) case study...
(I seriously don’t get how every member here keeps forgetting to carry a unit — especially considering it should be second nature to pocket it as soon as we stand up!)
and IMHO is not even an action camera... 
(well, DJI has named another series on purpose, so I guess I am not so distant from reality).
 
Without mention, it's all about the content produced, no less : )
 
360º or even 180º VR cameras can often be used as action cams, but that’s not their primary purpose I tend to see.
Stereo 3D is there to remind us (they’re not listed up there, so I guess they don’t really fit in this category ; )
Still, it makes sense to include the 360º devices here, as they now fall within the scope of the discussion.
 
A single thread is useful to not spread too much in many directions when the debate on these small devices can be focused and enriched here.
 
Even though drones are somewhat related for their most frequent users, they’re still a separate focus of attention as matter of fact. They could be excluded from this discussion due to factors like legal implications, only to provide an example of something not necessarily related to this subject. Plus IIRC there’s already sufficient information on them here too.
 
If the idea is to place it as action cam style filmmaking/shooting, I think it makes all the sense to gather all together in the same place.
Let alone it’s the webmaster’s call in the end so everything’s in order, we have a unique spot/thread to safely post it now :- )
 
- EAG

We have today a new sub-forum expressly open by our webmaster in order to include this niche as many others of similar kind. Have you already noticed it?
https://www.eoshd.com/comments/forum/38-gimbal-dji-drone-action-cameras/
I believe once up now by Andrew, it would be nice to have a few selection of these threads moved to there instead?
If not for anything else, it might help to establish a new trend and become people here used to visit the sub-forum too, increase the visibility and diversify the offer for valuable information on topic.

PS — Just to answer someone else out there to whom I’ve sent this link:
Nothing against it looking like video, if so.
Video is cinema : P 
If this means looking like it was made for the big screen in terms of narrative — well, docs are usually made in a different form.
But docs are also cinema ; )
That narrative form, usually made for the big screen, can also be reached through distinct ingredients such as cadence, dynamic range, lighting, framing and their respective language each element carries. Not to mention editing, pacing, sound design, and how it all aligns with intention.
That is, further to that — narrative intent doesn’t depend solely on medium or format.
Whether fiction or documentary, cinema arises from how all elements are orchestrated: rhythm, texture, spatial composition, sonic atmosphere. The so-called 'cinematic look' is less about resolution or gear and more about coherence — how lighting interacts with story, how movement informs meaning, how editing shapes perception. A documentary can be just as evocative, immersive, and crafted for the big screen as any scripted film — sometimes more so, precisely because it plays with reality through an authored lens.
Think of the slow-burn, meditative tempo of Chantal Akerman’s News from Home, or the hyper-composed observational poetics of Gianfranco Rosi’s Notturno and Fire at Sea — all undeniably cinematic. Or the emotional montage and reflexive voiceover of Agnès Varda in Les glaneurs et la glaneuse, merging essay film and personal documentary with formal invention. Even in cinéma vérité — like Frederick Wiseman’s institutional portraits — the framing, duration, and soundscape create a cinematic rhythm far beyond "capturing reality."
Lars von Trier’s The Idiots (Idioterne) and one of my favourite ever (as you well know ; ) offers another perspective on cinematic form, blending the boundaries between staged drama and spontaneous behavior. Shot with a raw immediacy and handheld style that can resemble documentary, it challenges traditional narrative structures and pushes cinema toward an exploration of social taboos and collective behavior. The film’s use of naturalistic lighting and unpolished texture contributes to its unsettling, immersive atmosphere, underscoring how cinematic expression can emerge from both form and content in provocative ways.
Closer to us ; ) Portuguese cinema brings its own deep contributions to this idea of documentary as cinema. Pedro Costa’s Vitalina Varela or No Quarto de Vanda / In Vanda’s Room unfold in shadow and stillness, shaped more by presence than plot — fiction and documentary blending until the line dissolves. And Manoel de Oliveira — whose films stand almost outside time — gave us a cinema where documentary, poetry, theatre and metaphysics cohabit the frame, inviting reflection instead of reaction.
Also worth noting in the video I’m commenting on here (shot on the Panasonic G7 with cheap C mount glass such as Kern Pizar 26mm f/1.9 and Cosmicar 12.5mm f/1.9 lenses) is the distinctive grain structure — a tactile, organic texture that enhances its cinematic feel. This film grain, far from being a flaw, enriches the image’s atmosphere and adds depth to the visual narrative, demonstrating how video can carry a rich, sensory cinematic language all its own.
All this just to say: the tools of cinema aren’t bound to fiction, nor to any one format. If it resonates, constructs space, breathes rhythm, and asks something of the viewer — it’s cinema, regardless of whether it was shot on film, video, or through a window.

Love this camera! : ) Right now, I have a crew to start working with my arsenal based on 4x units... What C mount lenses used there?

Kern Pizar 26mm 1.9, Cosmicar 12.5mm 1.9 (some shots are punched in to crop out the vignetting).

Love this camera! : ) Right now, I have a crew to start working with my arsenal based on 4x units... What C mount lenses used there?

I actually came back here after I don't know how long to figure out what camera to get. I've loved my Panasonic S5, until the LCD broke. The frame is now off-center and stuck in selfie mode. Very weird, especially since I babied this camera. And it's past the 6 month warranty from mbp. I bought a nice new external monitor, bit I hate rigging it up. I was thinking of selling it and putting the (probably) meager amount I'd get for it on ebay, now that it's faulty, to another S5, but now I'm afraid any copy I get can break down on me like that. So I'm trying to figure out what to get instead.
Recently I finally upgraded to Resolve studio and I've been remastering old projects in 4K. I'm surprised how good I can make old footage look. I have shorts shot on the GH1, Nikon D5100, and the Sony a6300, which I can make look really good in spite of the "old, bad" Sony color science. Even the short on the D5100 looks great. I've already thought for a while that we've had great image quality for a long time now, and the advancements in software have extended the life of these old cameras.
All I really want is something compact, with good 1080p that doesn't have horrible artifacts or chroma noise, uncompressed internal audio with good preamps, enough dynamic range that highlights don't blow out so easily (I can live with dark blacks and even kinda prefer it) and long battery life and is easy to use without rigging it up. Oh, and doesn't overheat. I've been trying for a while to pare down my gear and see how far I can go with minimal equipment, which can be burdensome.
I totally get why my favorite director, the late David Lynch (RIP) loved shooting with the Sony PD150. He knew it looked like shit but he loved the creative possibilities it gave him. He could shoot stripped down without a crew and cumbersome equipment to slow him down. He called the PD150 his "ugly, beautiful little thing". It's why I loved shooting with camcorder and the GH1 int he first place. I want to try and de-program myself from the cult of pixel-peeping and dynamic range charts and just embrace the "ugly". 
Any recommendations? I liked the G7 a lot when i had it.
Here are some old short (and sample footage) remastered:
"Ballad of Crazy Pete" was shot with a hacked GH1 (100mbps hack although it never yielded bitrates that high, some shots in that short are as low as 10mbps)
"Crappy Halloween" was shot with the Nikon D5100 (or was it the 5200?). I don't think I used nay flat or special picture profile.
I'm still remastering Chicken but here's a grading test I did with resolve. Shot on the a6300. 8bit Slog 2 with the "old, bad" Sony color science. All of these have film grain applied. Without it the remastered images were pretty clean after light NR (not all shots needed it).
Just for fun here's an old G7 test video from like 2017. Shot in 4K, but I don't have the raw footage anymore so this is just the original 1080p export scaled to 4K in Adobe Media Encoder. 
Another thing to note, I recently did a paid video gig with an old Canon HF100 consumer camcorder. I bought it for like $60 just for fun "vibes" and the client, who is a young woman in her early 20s, got really excited when I said I could shoot with an old camcorder, and requested I shoot with it. So times you don't need the latest and greatest.

Not to bring religion into it, but Jesus wept.
The column highlighted is in the classic Ionic style.
They need to stop teaching the classics at places such as Oxford, Cambridge or in architecture.
And knock down what remains of Ancient Greece.