richg101

Indeed.  I'd love to see these pitted against a set of contax.  a 35mm, 50mm and 85mm all f1.4 versions:)  Are these in your arsenal mister Reid?

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it is a poll where people are allowed to express their opinion.  I didn't say your opinion is wrong, just one that contradicts my own logical theories behind how a 'FULL FRAME' system of lenses should be built.   A slow 18mm lens to cater for those who can opt for smaller format faster lenses to fulfil wide angle seems like a complete waste of time IMO

24/T2.1 - 35/T2.1 - 50/T2.1 - 75/T2.1 - 100/T2.1 19.26%  (26 votes)

Ultimately it's easiest to get sharp results from smaller sensors since it's less stressful on the optics.  The bigger the sensor, the better the optics need to be in order to cover it successfully with less aberrations etc.

Assuming your budget allows an iscorama 36, then full frame will give you a more powerful setup since the 'rama can deliver sharp results on full frame and with big apertures.

a full frame sensor + 85mm + iscorama36 set at f2 will be nearly impossible to match in terms of fov and dof ratio.

to get a similar look on the pocket cam you'll need a 30mm f/0.7 - f/1.0 + iscorama36.  

Sensor size won;t determine the amount of oval defocus distortion, but since you;re using a wider lens for the same fov you'll need very very fast lenses to get the same shallowness of dof.  Without the shallowness of dof, the oval defocus wont be as obvious.

unfortunately very few anamorphic lenses can actually deliver on full frame sensors, so using smaller sensors can often be an advantage.

APS-C sensors are probably the sweet spot since a 58mm helios 44 and iscorama is having it's best portion of the optical path being used while the focal length of 58mm dictates a nice shallowness to the dof, while coming close to the limitation of the iscorama36.  you can get to around 35mm, but will need a fast 35mm that is also sharp to match the cheap 58mm f2 helios44.

very nice.

be sure to change those internal set screws for nylon ones though!

looks great.  really good.  The full frame sensor and stopped down lenses is creating a very strong and sharp aesthetic.  3d pop on some key shots is beautiful.

whether or not the actual glass in either of these lenses will contribute to a cinematic look is purely down to personal opinion.

I for one believe modern canon glass is about as far away from motion picture lenses as you can get (in visual terms).  If you had Cooke or Panavision at one end, the modern Canon lenses would be at the other.  Maybe because just about every stills photographer turned corporate film maker from 2008 till now just goes stright for what they owned as still photography lenses.  It's blighted modern canon glass imo.

There is also the focus mechanisms.  the nifty fifty for example has a really nasty manual focus mech.  as I imagine the 40mm does?  Focus pulls look very non cinematic from most af lenses when used in manual mode.

I'd suggest getting either a vintage nikon 50mm f1.8 (£40), olympus 50mm f1.8 (£40) or if money allows a contax 50mm f1.7 (£100).  and the suitable adaptor for around £10.

a 50mm on aps-c is about as 'cinematic as it gets' to my eye. 

indeed.  you need 64gb cards for xavc-s.  they donlt actually need to be crazy fast.  but have to be sdxc cards.

avchd on the a7s is pretty good since it's originating from a full sensor readout.  however xavc-s is around twice the bitrate so theoretically it should be better quality.  I imagine very few people have done a direct comparison between avchd and xavc-s, and I'd bet there isn't much difference.  the fs100 and fs700 recorded to avchd and their images always looked good to me - as do the c100 avchd files.

indeed.  The new concept art looks good and I see a lot of carefully thought out details in the cg drawings.  I agree, ditch those knobbly bits on the focus ring. go black anodised.  You'll be kicking yourself when you try to source a manufacturer who can offer those colours in a process that is durable.  Also, give us loads of area for a nice deep focus gear - assuming these units are gonna extend more than an iscorama during focusing we're gonna need at least 20mm or more of flat surface to attach a gear ring.  The initial test footage of the working prototype shared many moons ago doesn;t really ignite much enthusiasm for me either, So I'm basing my interest solely on concept art and performance claims for now.

We need to see proper video tests with people in shot (Eyes in focus).  showing an 85mm on full frame.  85mm f1.4, f2or at the very least f2.8,  shallow dof, smooth locked down focus pulls, a chart test, and ultimately the Iscorama comparison we've all been waiting for.  Tests are gonna need to be shot on something current, like anA7S or hacked 5dmk3 which allows us to see the capabilities without camera limitations playing a big part in the quality.  

Obviously the above criteria is rather challenging, but will serve to illustrate what is being offered.  I'm not put off by a lens that doesnt deliver on a chart test if it allows me other qualities, but a chart test is very good for showing how a lens will perform over its intended imaging area.  Same with  full frame capability.  it might not offer stellar results to the edges, but we'll see just what it can do.

Come on guys.  Lets leave it there.  

I understand there was sourness towards Cosimo's group buy topic (and as such John Barlow lost his administrator rights).  So I understand Cosimo's reasons here.  

I am also happy to see developments of the Rectilux concept from John - I'll freely admit I gave him a hard time about his methods and conduct, but primarily about bold claims I was questioning.  Now it would seem John is taking a quieter approach with only occasional updates of this topic.  To be fair, I am not seeing hard selling but just occasional info about developments.  I am also seeing a product that if it comes to light in a tangible way ( I hope it does), will be something that will benefit a lot of users here.  

Personally I feel it might be wise to close this topic down, and have John decant the most important information into a new topic where potential customers can direct their queries and productivity can be rekindled on the subject.   Does this sound logical?

**I'd also like to point out that as a potential customer myself, I will be awaiting images and tests (ideally third party) or finished articles before any money leaves my account.  I urge everyone to take care and factor this in before jumping on board without seeing tangible products or an expected availability date of items that appear largely at the concept stage of development. **

The set design will have probably have been adjusted to shorten depth and increase the amount of in focus material.  

I believe a large majority of the shots that made it into the edit were actually from the 50mm f0.7 but with a custom made front mounted afocal WA adaptor that changed the focal length to an equivalent 35mm f0.7.  the shortening of the focal length actually increases dof.  a 35mm f0.7 on 35mm film (22-24mm wide) is similar to a 50mm f1.4 on full frame (36mm wide) so therefore the 'look' isn't that crazy by todays standards.   

Indeed.  When talking about the A7S, it's a consumer camera.  priced to appeal to consumers.  It just so happens it's gained popularity in the professional market.  consumer and professional equipment has merged, but Sony will always be focused within the consumer sector with cameras of this nature.  The only people who lose out to Sony's consumer priorities are those who rush out and buy a new version each year to fulfil the consumer within -the guys who worry so much about having the new gear that they never shoot anything.  

Before the A7S I was shooting on the NEX5n and earning money from it!  My NEX5n was 3 years old when it was replaced because none of its successors were worth upgrading to. yet I saw lots of people upgrading and getting no improvement for their money.   Even now, the NEX5n still sees occasional use and it intercuts very well with the A7S.

lens speed becomes unimportant when you move to A7S.  So don;t let lens speed get in the way of your decisions

IMO there is a fine line between character and resolution.  4k is simply a marketing term.  Pushed by the technology companies.  We don;t need it and never will need it, but the customer (who pays for our work) will often be susceptible to marketing terms and switch off if something is not 'up to date'.  

Classic case...  Music.  Modern music sucks yet youngsters donlt realise because its all they know.  same with movies.  modern movies suck compared to 1980's hollywood.  

But on topic, I think if a anamorphic system will deliver 720p with beautiful character, I'll take that over a boring lens that delivers 4k, 6k or any other number that non creative people like to hide behind rather than make art.

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I'm using this for perspective and dof control:- https://www.flickr.com/photos/melting_bloke/sets/72157641407451984/

using the sony A7S and rollei medium format lenses.

this was shot with it:- https://vimeo.com/103970668

based on this pdf and the pricing, I can say that once physical items are available, and suitable test footage is made public which support the published specs, these options appear rather attractive.

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actually very few lenses support true 4k when wide open.  I assume the reason this is mentioned is that the optics have been designed to be good enough to support such resolutions if both the taking lens, anamorphic and camera can also do so.  

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Ah yes..  The kini booster ultra.  

The lovely Rob Bannister sent over a squeaky clean speed booster ultra and the sub-pl to adaptor that kinifinity provide for the camera.  from there I could equate what distances need to be adhered to in order for optimal results.   it was just a case of machining a sub pl mount to bolt to the back of the speed booster.

Unfortunately the time involved in the job was quite a lot and since Rob has been a friend and regular customer of dso I did it mates rates as a bit of a challenge.  what with the nx1 being very popular, metabones are almost certainly working on a solution as we speak.  For me to undertake another one, the price gets high due to the initial cost of the speed booster as well as labour.  some have asked for me to do the mod to cheaper speed booster copies, however due to the way they;re made, it makes it actually less simple to modify.

If Rob or Andrew wanted to rally a group of 10 people who might want to go for a kini booster, it would take prices down drastically and i could just cnc a user fitted sub pl coupling which will fit straight onto the e-mount to ef mount speed booster.

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I've been finding with wb set correctly I am getting more greens so need to dial them down / adjust with more magenta - almost the opposite of your findings.  I guess 'correct skintones' are a subjective thing within reason.  I find if I dont notch greens down a bit i need to always hit the greens in rgb curves.

yes, the neutral doesnt have as much dynamic range as the PP's, but is the widest dr of the r709 'creative style' options as far as i am aware.  Rather than filling up the somewhat limited xavc-s codec with more information than it can really cope with, I find the neutral creative style is very smooth and feels rather dynamic in it's handling of contrasty scenes - i always need to apply additional contrast in post suggesting that for me the camera is capturing enough dr for most situations where grading hassle might be a turn off.

the fact that nd's need to be used for the additional dr due to the annoying 3200iso minimum, - most people using substandard options like nasty vari nd's, and the fact that you need to be seriously good at curves to get something worth the added hassle.  Or luts which just crush the dr down to similar to the neutral creative style it seems moot to bother with log on this camera for most situations - and particularly for those worried about having to learn how to grade just to get something watchable.

It's heartbreaking seeing no one suggesting to avoid the picture profiles altogether.

PP - OFF!

go neutral creative style, dial down contrast to -3 and sharpening to -3 and set wb correctly.  then notch the 4 way wb adjustment away from green and towards magenta slightly.

shooting using the camera exposure meters and all will be good.  your editor will love the images.  s-log aint worth the time and effort in its current implementation on the a7s IMO

The words SLR Magic Anamorphot and A7S (Full Frame Sensor) undermines the whole point of this topic.

Get an iscorama 54, a 50mm f1.4 and fit that on your A7S and the drawbacks are worth it.  this combowill resolve 4k onto a full frame sensor without any problems.  

The SLR magic wont even deliver 480p on full frame with any nice aesthetic.  it's a pointless piece of glass that should be outlawed, along with any discussion about it.  Throw it in the bin. 

I have no intention of hindering the ergonomics of the a7s with a shogun just to get 4k.  It's 1080p internal is flawless IMO.  if it shot 4k in camera with the same dynamic range as 1080p internal then the playing field would be more level.  to be able to attach a z finder and shoot 4k without any hdmi crap is what makes the 1dc interesting to me.   However at the moment the e-mount is something i couldnt leave due to it's adaptability.

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cheers.

I think the main strength of the shot is in the framing.  we were walking up the hill along a path and the pathway was the perfect width for the shot.  the look comes from the use of a 50mm f1.8 wide open on a apc-s sensor. - being a crop sensor the best portion of the 50mm was used and less of the edge smear at f1.8 was captured.  the iscorama then provided the extra width that would normally be there with a full frame sensor, cropped.

I was also pretty lucky with the light.  it was just getting dark and i was forced to shoot at 1/50th sec - providing a cinematic single frame look.  

the processing involved just correcting wb and doing a grade in rgb curves.  the scene looked very similar to this when we were there.  I think I pulled up exposure on the face to make him pop a bit.

​indeed.  It's a rama 36 on a zeiss 50mm f1.8  I find the thing the Iscorama does best is still photography.  it;s so compact and on a fast 50mm on APS-c it;s a beautiful combo.  I just wish the Leica Iscorama 2004 were cheaper!!!!!