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No. I said that based on the timeline that any panic that had been suggested to exist would have had to have been on BM’s side. The suggestion wasn’t mine obviously.

Exactly (GX85 + 14-140mm is my current travel cam). Versus the GX85 or GX9, you get 24MP stills, PDAF, a dual-gain sensor with good high-ISO performance, 4k50p/60p (albeit with a crop but so does the GX85/GX9 in 4k), a higher capacity battery, better stabilization, variable electronic zoom, a mic input, H264 and H26 10-bit recording at (in round numbers) 24/25/30/48/50/60p up to C4K, with higher resolutions up to 30p, at up to 4:2:2 and 200Mbps long-GOP. Viewed as a GX85 & GX9 successor, it makes a lot of sense, especially once the 18-40mm zoom is available. (At the moment, buying used from a dealer in the UK, a GX9 + 14-140mm would cost around £700 - £1000 so that's not a cheap camera either).

100^ on point. To think the only way to legit be into camera and video is to learn color grading is quite odd. I’m going to die someday. Let me have optimal color or near optimal with minimal work - for the platform of socials and YouTube. That’s it. This camera is a massive step in that direction. Panasonic is really stepping up whereas canon is just like huh

I'm not really sure what criticisms you're making. When I watch a Gerald video, the things I'm seeing are things like: What is the DR that he measured What features aren't available in which modes (ie, what the manufacturer won't tell you) What else did he notice about it, like if it overheated, or took 20s to turn on, or got corrupted clips, etc He's mentioned before that he has a standard checklist of things to test and does that for all his reviews, so assuming that's true then it's a semi-rounded take on the camera Maybe I'm missing all the times when he made comments that were outside his knowledge and experience? If he did then I don't remember him making them. The territory that gets tricky is when a reviewer is commenting on how good a camera it is overall (because that's subjective and not objective), or when things are outside their experience. I can read whatever I want about an Alexa 35 but I'd be talking out my backside if I told you that it was a good camera for a cinematographer to shoot a feature film on, because I have no experience of that. Perhaps the biggest criticism of that Gerald that I am aware of is omission of relevant facts. Is there some gotcha about the camera that wasn't in one of his reviews? Probably in every one of them. Are they deliberately withheld, and if so then why? or did he just not find them? Who knows, but it's worth noting that Gerald takes the most time to menu dive out of all the YT reviewers, and is obviously much more systematic in his approach, so whatever extent he's guilty of it then everyone else is guilty of it 10X or 50X more. Most YT 'reviewers' seem to just read out the marketing brochure, turn the camera on and wave it around enough to film a video long enough for a sponsor segment, and if they find a weakness then might mention it and might not... then proceed to tell you that it's a good fit for doing a bunch of things that they have no experience with at all. We can throw shade at Gerald, and no-one is perfect of course, but if we're going to get specific then perhaps we should refocus our attention to the worst offenders. Lots of reviewers making only positive reviews about a brand and then a "why I'm switching to X" video which mentions a dozen or so criticisms of their previous brand that somehow never made it into the original videos but would have been obvious from day one. Of course, if we're going to re-direct our attention, then maybe we should focus on those who actively oppose any genuine criticism of a brand, like the R5 incident which was easily verifiable by anyone who had one or had access to someone who did... Not being a critical reviewer is one thing, but voluntarily participating in a cover up is something else entirely.

You think BM panicked about the S9? Did they have bad intel? I really can't think of any potential customer for a full frame BMPCC who would be jumping ship for the S9 - though I'm sure there that once it starts shipping, there will be at least some YouTubers who will make videos about how they're dropping their current camera for the S9. Similarly, there was at least one who made one about how he was selling his Komodo-X to buy a Pyxis. I didn't watch the video, though - just saw the headline, shrugged, and thought "that seems like a weird choice, but you do you, buddy." I probably blocked his channel from my recs too since that's my default behavior when YT suggests "Why I'm changing from ______ to ________" videos to me.

Very interesting... The 12-35mm F2.8 and 14-140mm F3.5-5.6 are basically the same size, and when combined with the GX85 are about 120mm deep, so 140.1 mm deep is perfectly acceptable for a body + 7X zoom lens setup. An 18-40mm lens would be a very useful one as well, especially if it's shorter. I'm a big fan of having an ultra-wide, and although I've got 16mm and 15mm equivalent primes for my MFT cameras, 18mm is likely just wide enough for almost everything I have come across. Having some smaller lenses still, other than the prime just released would be the final piece of that puzzle I'd say. Maybe the lenses to back up such a small camera body will actually arrive with it. Very encouraging.

Put 30 experienced artists in a room with 1 newly graduated art critic, it will be the art critic who will be considered the expert. I wonder how Gerald Undone figures in with that? I cannot help but hear a bit of hypocrisy in what he says.

Panasonic UK have two S9 kits listed on their website, one with the 20-60mm f3.5-5.6, the other with the 28-200mm f4-7.1 Macro OIS lens (but no price as yet for that kit). Comparing the sizes of both on the S9, the 28-200mm kit looks like it might be a nice FF travel cam combination at just under 900g total weight including battery. According to Panasonic W x H x D is 126 x 73.9 x 140.1 mm with the 28-200 (the 20-60 is just 6mm shorter and 63g lighter): Amateur Photographer magazine in the UK has estimated the length of the upcoming compact 18-40mm F4.5-6.3 at around 40mm, which is about half the length of the 20-60mm.

I think this is a key point - colour grading is a daunting and time-consuming thing that most won't want to do (or learn to do). I disagree that this isn't for content creators, I think that's exactly who it's for, but the point stands. I got into video around 2016 and at the time the people here were all about LUTs and profiles, CineD in Panasonic cameras, the Leeming LUT etc. At that time I didn't see anyone talking about colour management, and although Resolve was the same price then as it is now, it was a very different tool back then. It had only recently had the Edit page added, and round-tripping from PP/FCPX to Resolve and back isn't for the faint-of-heart. There are still lots of people who don't want to colour grade, for a variety of reasons, but now it's not a choice between a few profiles or a few LUTs, or spending the time and effort to learn colour grading.

I don't think the Panasonic S9 pulls anywhere near the shenanigans that Canon pulled on the R5 "overheating". That was an ultimate low for the cripple hammer. I do hear reports of reviewers saying the S9 can successively restart recording up to 6 times. If that it so, just put the usual 30 minute limit on it and a 2-minute wait to restart.

A few things, 1. Gerald’s video confirms that these folks can’t be trusted as independent sources. Yes they’re not paid but a free trip to hang out with friends is an incentive to want to be in their good graces. 2. he noted they used these as trips to make content for a sponsor - aka a paid commercial. Again, not trustworthy 3. this camera doesn’t need a mechanical shutter because it’s not for pro level use. It’s for people on vacation or with their family. 4. this camera isn’t for YouTubers or wedding videographers. It’s for the person taking short bursts of video with friends, family, and when traveling. 5. if Panasonic can get it right with lenses then this will be a line that makes sense. If this currently had a 2.8 pancake this easily is more desirable than some of its competitors. 6. not every camera has to be for every market, this def. Targets schmucks like me who don’t want to color grade 🤭

With regard to the objectivity and competence of these “reviewers”, I thought we’d put that to bed on here a few years ago. Never forget the absolute pile on suffered by @Andrew Reid for raising the blatant shenanigans that Canon were up to and the lengths that we both had to go to in proving it definitively. Did any of these clowns apologise ? No, they just made follow up videos about it to generate more clicks ! Oh but jokes about kittens right ?

Of course... duh! *slaps own forehead* 🙂 Interesting about the cage manufacturers doing the leaking. I guess they'd be the ones with the most detailed knowledge of the cameras too - considering that they'd be required to receive accurate dimensions and potentially would also get the size requirements of the lenses too so they'd be able to figure out the lens configuration and sensor size. I think it's a straight up content creators camera. Gerald said he thinks that it was Panasonic trying to get some of that Fuji money after the success of the X100 selling out, and that the inclusion of all the more advanced features was simply a case of taking the S5ii package and not paying engineers to disable features when they can just release the new camera with those features and not pay anyone to remove them. Millennials and GenZ are running around with vintage point-and-shoot cameras and want film presets now, despite their smartphone being technically better in practically every way. The fact that us crotchety old camera nerds don't know what the hell they want isn't surprising, especially considering I'm pretty sure they don't know what they want either! Anyone who has ever looked at the fashion industry will know that nothing makes sense, lots of things look completely stupid, yet there is a rabid market for it and you can make squillions of dollars if you can get it right.

Yeah, exactly like the G9. Making the S9 into a GX line camera would literally be the same - taking a FF body and putting an MFT sensor / mount into it. If they did this, it would make sense. Have a few standard body shapes where you can get economies of scale for manufacture, and just change the sensor and lens mounts etc for different models. BM has been doing this with the BMPCC lineup. I'd be inclined to say that this is what they're doing, but who knows... anything designed by committee is inherently unpredictable unless you're in the room with the committee, and even then, lots of corporate folks get chewed up and spat out by office politics even when they are in the room! In terms of the potential overheating, Gerald said something in the livestream to the effect that Panasonic test their cameras at 40C / 104F and that these record time limits would be a guarantee that the camera would record for that long under those conditions. It was just a reference in passing of course, so don't quote me on that. I also heard a comment in one of the reviews (Cams IIRC) where someone said that someone tested the camera by just hitting record over and over again, and it being fine recording for something like an hour, and there was talk with Panasonic about removing the time limits via firmware, but obviously who knows what will happen. I suspect a bunch of people will be happy. Dave said in the steam that he mentioned the controversy about the release to one of the creators who was there and they didn't know what he was talking about because his audience, who are all iPhone / vlogging folks, didn't have any negative comments about it at all. When I was shooting with primes, the 2X function on the GH5 and GX85 were really important to me. They literally changed the lenses that I bought and my approach to how I shot. For most people this feature was of zero importance. Why do I say this? For most people who buy these cameras, this whole conversation and controversy is the equivalent of me talking about the 2X feature - they don't know about this stuff, wouldn't understand it if they came across it, and if we explained it to them they simply wouldn't care.

Interesting… I think at least within our community here, if not the wider one, we have been anticipating for some time, a sequel to the S1 line. With the launch of the Leica SL3 a few months back, now would have been the time? But who was asking for this S9? Possibly there is a demand for this kind of thing, but not in the circles within which I move (which are admittedly very limited under this rock) but it something about this whole launch does seem a bit ‘off’? Or maybe I have been watching too many conspiracy shows…

They’d already gathered in Osaka, shot with it and left by time BM announced the price cut. With the amount of leaks coming out of there about the S9, it’s more likely the panic came from BM rather than the other way round. There was a lot of talk about there being a fixed lens camera (aka Panasonic badged Leica Q3) so it’s possible that may have been something that was held back. Perhaps Leica didn’t want Panasonic overshadowing their own announcement this week of their new fixed lens camera. Although them releasing a £1500 version of the few years old Panasonic LX100mk2 kind of overshadowed itself anyway. My theory is that the leaking about all this stuff comes from the manufacturers of the cages which are always coincidentally announced on the same day as the new cameras so they have the most prior knowledge.

Which real world for those that don’t get too hung up about spec sheets, is not really any kind of issue once there is; a grip or cage, lens, mic etc attached and ergos are FAR more important. For instance, my Nikon Zf vs my Z6ii. The Zf is a more capable camera, but the Z6ii kills it for ergos hence why I am very much looking forward to a Z6iii that will hopefully not only combine the best of both, but add to it and allow me to switch out 2 bodies for a single one. There’s a compromise with that (there generally is) but one I can live with and the benefit for my needs outweighs the slight negative. And then there is the price… I think the S9 is a tad ambitious. To me it’s more like a 1k camera and will be within a few months on the used market. That’s when I think it might be worth picking one up, back end of this year. But only if it’s going to serve a purpose. I don’t know what is going on with Sigma, but I would have thought they were perfect to fill this niche. An FP’3’ would tick a huge amount of boxes for filmmakers, photographers and Cuntent Creators…

Sure, but if I brand bananas as bananas, it doesn't make them less of a banana. I'm talking about structure. He's a technician who tests cameras. If a technician tells me the DR is 12.7 stops then I'd be inclined to believe them, but if they tell me its a good camera for shooting sunsets in Belize then I would raise an eyebrow.

So, I've been watching that podcast and got to the part where Dave implies incredibly strongly that the S9 wasn't the camera that was planned to be announced. It's at the 1h30m mark of the video, but he's saying it as strongly as he can without breaking an NDA or outing a source (or both). My theory is that almost a week ago BM dropped the price of the BMCC 6K by 40% to $1575, and then seemingly Panasonic swaps the camera released during a press event where they had invited a bunch of film-makers to... Was Panasonic releasing a high-end video camera and didn't want to compete with the BMCC 6K at the same price point? Did BM get wind what Panasonic was releasing and drop their price to screw up their launch? I've seen documentaries about corporate espionage and that shit is real - companies spy on each other as much as you'd expect when there are millions of dollars at stake.

Unfortunately, I feel like the S9 makes no one happy. For video, it has many limits; for photos, it doesn't have a mechanical shutter. Who is left? I love the size and weight. I rarely shoot longer than 10 minutes. I use electronic shutter most of the time. I think this camera could be for me, but I'd need to accept not being able to grow. And there's the rub- it has limitations for growth. There's also an argument to say those very limitations will foster creativity. Damn, it looks cool. However, I'm most disappointed in Lumix over this lens. Something went seriously haywire in the marketing team IMO. Even the 12-32 kit lens s a 24mm f7 with IS and AF. Actually, I'd like to see a comparison of the 12-32 at 13mm and the 26mm pancake. Which will perform better? This comparison will happen. Me too, but it's too expensive right now. And the shutter sound will be awesome! :-) It's all about 258g (the difference between the S5ii and the S9). Looking at the supplied grip to the people who went to Osaka, it will actually be less than that if you believe it needs better handling. In fact, this is more than ever one of those cameras you really want to try out first. It looks cool though; so, it might not matter. I'd also say, if you wanted that 18mm prime, you can get the S9 with it for 2000 euros at FNAC, which is a significantly better price than 1699 euros body only in France. If the camera doesn't sell well out of the gate, I imagine the price will be around 1200 euros with that new kit lens by November 2024 (in France).

Discussing them is all I’ll be doing as, unfortunately, I’m just too washed up to be using them anymore. Oddly enough, there is exactly the same type of WW2 re-enactment event taking place on Monday (which is a Bank Holiday so guaranteed flat lighting ) at a heritage railway 20 mins from where I’ll be. I can’t even be arsed going to watch it let alone taking a camera and filming it. On the topic of your endearing love for the 5D3, I think it’s quite common for people to still have the strongest affiliation to the first camera that offered the “great leap forward” for them in terms of their image making. That’s why there is still so much love for cameras such as the BMPCC and the GH2. Possibly also because they all represent peak enthusiasm before the gear ridden descent into being so jaded 😂

I’m in the maybe not camp. If his piece had been about YouTube, then yes, possibly, but it was about Panasonic and a certain culture that exists within YouTube, bit is not YouTube itself.

Ha, like the opposite of what they did with the G9?! I was giving this camera a little further consideration and came to the conclusion that it actually does everything my S5ii does THAT I USE, but in a more compact and lighter body. I use my S5ii as a purely handheld, run & gun, 4k 50p, unit along with Smallrig cage, side handle, Sigma 28-70mm f2.8 and Rode Micro. I could see a use case of a more compact version of that using the S9 as a base. I would then ideally move the S5ii over to being a stills unit but have already established I don’t much care for it in this role, so I’d need to sell it. So used trade in price vs new S9 price. What would I gain and what would I lose? Gain = smaller & lighter Lose = stuff such as; recording length, potential overheating, twin card slots…stuff you might call ‘pro’ needs. So on balance, would the S9 make a great small run & gun video unit? I think without question yes, but I’d need to test it in worst case real world scenarios to know I could fully trust it whereas my S5ii has seen and passed a full year of that and sailed through. I could also see it as a compact stills unit with a set of small Sigma f2.8 primes such as the 24, 35, 45, 90, but for my kind of work/needs, despite being a prime guy at heart, zooms are what I need.

This was a very ugly hit piece against Panasonic by Gerald. See, I see no problem whatsoever with Panasonic not inviting Gerald (& others) because they believe the Panasonic S9 isn't for him. This is no different whatsoever to if camera very specifically targeting street photographers got released, then they won't be inviting people who specialize in the niche of bird photography!! That's silly, as they might just end up complaining about: FPS / weather proofing / crop mode / buffer size / their own weird ergonomic needs / etc However those same people could find themselves still being invited to a release of a camera that is for bird photographer (IF they haven't just done an ugly hit piece against the brand! Such as Gerald just did).

This was a very ugly hit piece against Panasonic by Gerald. See, I see no problem whatsoever with Panasonic not inviting Gerald (& others) because they believe the Panasonic S9 isn't for him. This is no different whatsoever to if camera very specifically targeting street photographers got released, then they won't be inviting people who specialize in the niche of bird photography!! That's silly, as they might just end up complaining about: FPS / weather proofing / crop mode / buffer size / their own weird ergonomic needs / etc However those same people could find themselves still being invited to a release of a camera that is for bird photographer (IF they haven't just done any ugly hit piece against the brand! Such as Gerald just did). Wouldn't surprise me at all https://archive.ph/atk0f Maybe, maybe not. Gerald has positioned himself as going a different path, that's he is uniquely the 'honest/direct" reviewer. In a way, him putting out a video like this is very "on brand" for him, he's doing what he does ("calling it as it is"). He's definitely branded himself as that. Yeah, I mean, I'd still definitely watch any of his videos about a specific camera before I make a big purchase of one. And I enjoy watching his videos for entertainment! But due to the fact he has zero experience, he does often make unbalanced / incorrect conclusions I reckon, relative to the needs of a professional. Smaller channels such as Cranky Cameraman or Luke Seerveld provides better value to watch. Curtis Judd suffers from the same problem, a fantastic person and channel, but I feel his final conclusions / emphasis he arrives upon can miss the mark when it comes to relevance for the Sound Depart. (but then again, I feel we're not his target market at all. He instead serves the needs of videographers / students / indies / hobbyists) To be fair, the skills are very different when it comes to being a successful YouTuber and being a successful worker in the film industry