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Andre Bazin, the film critic/theorist? Yes, I am familiar. Why? Is he relevant to medium format film? It does mean that I'm not talking out of my ass. I've likely taken far more images on medium and large format film than anybody else in this discussion which, I feel, is a pretty decent qualification for talking about what those formats look like. I've also built several medium and large format cameras over the years. What are your qualifications in discussing the look of medium and/or large format film? FWIW, I also have spent a lot of time with others who shoot medium and large format film. Wanna guess which phrase they never use? "Medium format look." The discussions tend to be a lot more around what specific lenses look like/do, whether those lenses will cover a certain format, and lately, how much film costs. A box of 8x20 is just about enough to send a person to the poorhouse.

Well posted, thank you! ; ) The fact you have a point doesn't mean some other point about both the use of a terminology or some realm outside the knowledge you have, makes you know about this specific topic more than the other side. That's all about that ;- )

It's a great lens!

@kye it's useless, the most funny is that people who think this way (I don't mean it's the case of this fellow because I don't REALLY appreciate to say anything about someone I have no clue about, other than this poster knows Tarkovsky exists, so double shame on such a level of arrogancy then... nonetheless, keeps the need for more often the 'fucking' word written everywhere or is not cool enough LMAO : D), they think they are aware of knowledge they usually even have ZERO clue that exists -- hence that remark on aesthetics/philosophy above ; ) The fact is though that we need a microscope to see that imaginary world to only exist in the head of a scientist. @eatstoomuchjam Thanks for introducing Scheimpflug anyway. Never heard about him before. What about André Bazin? Have you ever read anything about him? Because I guess you had heard about this guy who knew more about film than all people after him and as DoP never shot nor directed a single frame we had noticed from. That said, film is far to be mere technology, whether everyone like it or not. - EAG

@eatstoomuchjamThat's a good point. I guess I just like the specific look of the Mamiya 80mm f1.9 in that case

Come on, now. I'm not claiming to know everything, but it's also clear that after 20+ years of shooting medium and large format cameras, I have more experience in the format than people who have never touched one and yet are talking about the "look." I don't have to know everything to know anything at all which is a lot more than the majority of people chiming in on this topic know. Have you shot thousands of images over the last 20 years with medium and large format cameras? How many of them have you ever used? Or even touched? Without looking it up, could you even tell me what the Scheimpflug's principle is? What about reciprocity failure? Somebody doesn't have to be omniscient to know more about a topic than somebody else.

It must be amazing to know everything and have nothing else to learn. I can't imagine what that must be like. To see everything. To know everything. Wow. We truly are lucky to have you here to correct all of us in our silly and naive delusions. Please... tell us what else we all collectively believe that is also wrong... enlighten us... your omnipotence!

thanks for the long reply. all true. regards,

Pretty much! I made the mistake of buying a used R5, specifically for its IBIS, to pair with my R5C, and ended up regretting it bcuz the difference between IBIS and the R5C with internal DIS and/or IS lenses was not worth the advantages of getting acsecond R5C will never do that again. Luckily I was able to resell the R5 and get a second R5C for about the price as the used R5. Currently I use my R5Cs exclusively with EF lenses that have IS and have no complaints whatsoever (I use DIS now and then but very rarely). Basically, I know the cam's limitations and respect those limitations. For shots that require something beyond the stationary tripod-styled look I invested in an RS3 Pro (using it with IS stablized lens gives me the best results). For R5C users, the RS2/3/4 Pro are pretty much the best/only options - and many R5C users who tried to go for something more affordable ended up regretting it. So in 2024 it's still a horses/courses/practice-practice get to know your gear approach.

No, I'm sorry. That's bullshit. If a term has no clear definition, then the term is just plain useless. Otherwise we're just shouting at each other that the images aren't "old-timey" enough. Also, even in your example of two different grades, if the 100 people you show things to are not video nerds, I think a lot fewer of them are going to rate the second "film look" than you think. They might say the second one looks older, especially because of gate weave. Ad of course it's that I'm not seeing "the medium format look." You can't see what doesn't fucking exist. I was pretty sure it did exist when I started shooting medium and large format over 20 years ago. Over years and using many different combinations of lens and film, I've realized how there's no look intrinsic to any format. Lenses definitely have different looks, but if I have medium and large format film cameras that wouldn't fit the descriptions people give for "the medium format look" or "the large format look," those descriptions are wrong and/or imaginary.

100mm on MFT is definitely a pretty long telephoto for sure, but remember that in my case I had IBIS in the camera and the OIS in the lens both helping with the stabilisation. Depending on what camera and what lens you have, they might not work together like this, so you'll get less effective stabilisation. I find stabilisation to really be a bit of a gamble - you can get good comparisons from people and they're likely to be good information but until you actually test a setup yourself you're not going to know in what situations you can get a stable image. I've found that there are lots of things that can impact your ability to get a stable shot, for example all the following will have an impact: if you're tired if the ground is level and solid or not what sort of shoes you are wearing and if they're comfortable what pose you're in if it's windy your caffeine levels how tired you are if there are bright lights shining in your eyes (obviously) if you're moving or walking, but even then there are all sorts of techniques involved and how much practice you've had at them, etc Perhaps the best advice once you've bought your equipment is to practice as much as you can, know what you can and can't do, and have a backup plan in place for when it gets difficult.

handhold 100 mm on m43 is actually pretty good. I have several 50 mm standard primes. if they are stable enough for video use, it will great. em5 og is tripod like at 25mm, monopod like at 50mm, 100 mm is not stable enough for video work.

seems to me currently the best choice is s 5 2 x. I will follow up with s 5 3. if it incorporates gh 7's features, I will pull the trigger. I have a collection of mf lenses with different brands, formats, and mounts. I think l mount is ok for almost all of them. I hope s 5 3 has ibis similar to gh7 om1 ii.

I tried steadicam. I have a steadicam merlin. the problem is the difficulty to balance. also, I can not do camera angles I like. but if only for flow movements like walking or running, the footage is very pro like.

you are totally right, according to my research on ibis.

I have em5 og, 4 stop ibis

Being serious, looking forward to Monday. Rarely do I preorder a camera and half my gear I buy used, but based on considerable user experience and my needs…and on the assumption that it will suit my needs perfectly, I can’t see why it will not be that ‘no-brainer’ for my needs. Second choice would be a used Z9 and although I prefer the battery grip built in approach, it is still considerably heavier than a Z6iii will be with battery grip and the spec of the Z9 is arguably a little more than I need. My only ‘concern’ is a Lumix S1H replacement with Samyang 35-150 will almost certainly come out at some point and it makes more sense for me to have a fully L Mount set up, but there are no signs of the former… And why a ‘S2H’? Quite simply the best camera from a user experience I have ever owned, video AND stills. But it’s not that big a deal me using L Mount for video and Nikon for stills and I’d rather do something this year than not as currently juggling 4 cameras is problematic…

Which is exactly how I’m using mine. Originally for the former and now with the latter. No regrets over ditching the gimbal. None at all. It’s not like I was ever a big gimbal user anyway, but after going through 3 of the damned things and never enjoying any of them…in fact they were an utter PITA, now loving the ‘custom C3 gimbal setting’ on my S5ii at the flick of a switch. Using the 28mm wide end of my Sigma 28-70mm, in S35 mode, it’s more like around ‘50mm’ or something and early days, but suits my limited needs.

In my ideal world, that is how I would work as would pretty much any pro. For my line of work, mainly weddings, and shooting hybrid 100% of jobs, I don’t because it’s not practical, so I have a ‘go to’ instead. 5600 outdoors and indoors in very well lit (natural light) rooms and 4000 indoors less well lit rooms or after dark. I’m chasing one thing and one thing only and that is consistency. I’ve tried auto WB a couple of times and nah, it can change multiple times within the same scene and can be even more of a disaster than having the wrong WB. Consistency, for me anyway, that is the thing.

On the IBIS front, we've gone from taking out micro-jitters to gimbal replacement. IMO nothing truly replaces a skilled steadycam operator. However, if you're one man show, the Panasonic S5ii/x has the best IBIS in the business in June 2024. Sony is far, far behind for out-of-camera gimbal like shots on their FF bodies. Nikon and Canon still have issues with warpy corners on wide shots (the majority of shots for "gimbal replacements"). Coming from M43 and used to Panasonic and Olympus systems crushing FF bodies, I was amazed how Panasonic did it.

It looks like a camera. That’s one box ticked 😜

Right now, it’s probably the S5ii. You can adapt at least Canon lenses, but not sure about anything else. Definitely not anything ‘new’ such as Sony E, Nikon Z or Canon RF. The IBIS though is first rate in my opinion.

Those who ignore philosophy as science will struggle to identify any branch of it, namely aesthetics as something non-existent. If it is non-existent, why the hell there's any need to learn or even think about it? : D - EAG

A nerve wrecking affair extra ordinaire.😂 I would pee horrified Smileys into the sand afterwards. @kye