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Well I’m shooting 7.2k 30p open gate h.265 V-log with baked in Phantom LUT (for S5ii as he hasn’t produced an update for the second gen S line…because I asked Joel direct) on my S1RII and think it’s fcuking great. Zero complaints or issues, no over-sharpening and no moire. The latter two things may be down to also shooting with a 1/8th gold mist at all times, but whatever, heard all the blah before and it just works for me. If I ever change from Lumix, it won’t be anything to do with the quality of of it’s video that’s for sure as it’s more than good enough for my needs and by ‘more than good enough’, I mean superb by my definition of the term. Sure, I would rather have the Zr body and that screen, but then again, even that screen has an issue for me in that it can’t tilt and pull out in line with the camera as my S1RII’s can so despite it’s size & rez, still not perfect. But raw… Finally decided after seeing and reflecting upon the results of this last season, it would be overkill for me and just a major hassle I could do without.

I don't have an example, but from experience, I can tell you that shooting H.265 on the Sony FX3/6 is a lot nicer than on my Nikon Z9s, where it's too compressed/low bitrate, has too much NR applied, etc. So I've been shooting N-RAW 8K24p & N-RAW 4K60p/120p, not just because I prefer the detail and flexibility in post (white balance & exposure corrections, & shooting 8K for 4K delivery produces very nice oversampled 4K and gives me room to punch in with zero resolution loss), but because I can't stand the H.265 implementation. So it varies from camera to camera. Although I myself prefer RAW, my ideal camera would also offer high bitrate H.265 and ProRes codecs with minimal NR and sharpening, and make these two very user-configurable too. It seems we now have too many cameras with either very high bit rate codecs or very low ones. There's nothing in the middle, really, that's nice and flexible in the post. See the new Nikon ZR as an example. And I'd settle for 6K over 8K. 6K is plenty for punching in, stabilizing, etc., in post for 4K delivery.

Is there somewhere where we can see an example of this problem vs. another camera with a better implementation of h.265? I think it's understandable that when a highly compressed video codec is used, there is noticeable quality loss and the manufacturer is trying to mitigate this with some algorithmic processing of the data. Is it really the case that the quality of the h.265 is worse than in a previous model from Panasonic or another camera in a similar price class, or could it be a case of increasing expectations over time as we see high-quality footage using better screens more often?

Is this something? ; ) To me, this outcome doesn’t seem negligible at all. Quite the contrary. No one invented the wheel this time. But it seems that has now been perfected, evolving in a way even the most oblivious cannot miss. To me, it would/will likely be the 1st round :- )

That's true! I did guess that. Apparently my guess was off, as was my memory of the ZR price. Thanks for the reminder/correction! 😅

Well, I was responding to all the comparisons with those more expensive cameras. This is your own statement: "Though I'd also guess that outside of that sort of over/under test, the ZR will have better apparent/usable dynamic range than the OG Komodo and maybe even vs the Komodo-X which is noticeably better than the OG." Also, for future reference, these are the current prices for the ZR and Pyxis 6K on B&H:

Wait, so the very small $1,800 camera has compromises when compared with a series of larger $3,000ish cameras? I think it's useful to understand the characteristics of the camera, but for me, the more useful comparisons would be to other small cameras in the <$2,000 price range - i.e. S9, X-M5, and even maybe EOS R6 II/S5 II (though they're a bit bulkier IIRC).

I like the colors and overall image of this camera, especially for the low price, but Nikon definitely sacrificed DR for a faster readout. This is from G. Undone's test: 10.9 usable stops in 6K R3D NE is not great for a modern cinema camera. NR will get you another stop, but it's not an ideal starting point. By comparison, the Komodo 6K scored 12.5 usable stops in 6K R3D and the Komodo-X was at 12.9 when tested by CineD. CVP's latitude test was also fairly extensive as it tested both native ISOs: The good news is that you don't lose much DR when switching into the higher base. The bad news is that, no matter which base you use, most of its competitors have an extra stop in the highlights: As for under exposure, it is usable to under 3, but no more. It is RAW after all, so this poor result is understandable when compared with the Sony cameras.

This is true. I don't even use Log for the bulk of my work. Only when I know it's worth it/have a somewhat controlled environment. This is what makes the S1II/S1IIE even more frustrating to me with it's aggressive digital sharpening. The "baked in" profiles just look plain ugly.

The average buyer doesn't even need 10bit and log profiles. Most of them hate color grading. A TikTok girl I follow was asking the followers the other day to help her find a camera that has good color science and doesn't need grading, because she has no time for that.

English audio is enabled https://youtu.be/uXyWiPO7DoE

The file sizes are still too large for my work. I shoot long form, or at least a full day's worth of footage and can easily come home with 400-500gb of footage as its stands. Prores 422 would double it.

How about Prores 422? Prores 422 4K at 25 fps is 433 Mbps vs. 2.3Gbps Prores RAW 6K (normal) and 3.5Gbps for Prores RAW HQ. I would think the Prores 422 on the S1II is likely to be a good intermediate sized format between RAW and h.265, at least from my Nikon experience the quality should be very good.

Tianluokeng Tulou clusters, Fujian Province, China. These buildings have a very thick outer wall of earth and a 3-5 storey inner wooden structure that houses dozens of families. The structure is designed to be stable during earthquakes and secure against bandits. The oldest if the ones we visited was built in 1796. These are just with a quick grade, mostly Resolve Film Look Creator. The DR in the scene is extreme, and while all the required info is in the files, I'm going to have to go heavy on the power-windows when I grade these properly. Grabs from GH7 + 14-140mm zoom. Grabs from iPhone 17 Pro shooting Prores Log with default app. The Prores HQ Apple Log files grade really nicely, have heaps of DR, and are great to work with. The DR isn't quite as much as the GH7, but it's more than enough for these scenes. These were graded at a different time to the above GH7 shots so probably don't match. All-in-all, the iPhone well and truly punches above its weight when you take into account it's pocketability, the size of the sensor, and the incredible range in focal lengths. Imagine how much you'd have to pay to get a lens that can do 13-200mm FF equivalent FOV and has exposure levels between F1.78 and F2.8 across the whole range.

Absolutely. Use a tripod or stabiliser when required and use an ND to shoot manually with the iPhone and you'll get top notch results with a very light setup. Great to hear people using modest tools and putting out work.

It definitely seems like manufacturers are pushing Raw like it's the best thing since sliced bread. The average buyer of the prosumer hybrid mirrorless cameras does not need Raw. I noted some chat above about bandwidth vs processing power. Seems this is also the case with the Lumix S1II/S1IE. Seems like Lumix is beginning to favour Raw over H.264 and H.265 recording, which is very disappointing. I tested one for a weekend and was let down by the horrendous digital sharpening and aggressive noise reduction in the compressed codecs, even when it's turned all way way down, it's not "off". Many claim the extra sharpening is to help the AF, but the AF still works in Raw - the only recording format that actually looks organic and natural. So it's evidently a processing problem. I was really excited by the prospect of the S1II but I'm afraid it's completely unusable for my needs. I don't want or need Raw, I'd just like a nice, natural looking H.265 image please.

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True, I would agree with this. For me, I always make it a priority, even though it's costly and I don't "see" anything new when spending all that money on RAID drives/arrays, memory cards, and the computer upgrade. But I do that knowing that in the past, I've always benefited from it and have never regretted it.

You're not wrong, but the complicated part is deciding whether you can afford storage and computing power, or whether to use that money on lenses, snacks for your crew, other life expenses, etc.

If you want the best quality, can afford storage, and have good computing power for editing, I don't see why you wouldn't shoot RAW. It's not too complicated, really.

At ISO 6400, ZR is way better than Komodo X, and equal to S1ii. With noise reduction, even ISO 25600 is useable. And thats what matters for the target market. They're mostly one man with no or very limited lighting equipment. Underexposing and lifting the shadows in post is not what they usually do. Its good to have lower noise floor, but you don't want to go much down there anyway. Because despite less noise, you're still dealing with poor SN ratio, due to shot noise, which is inevitable side effect of underexposure. That's why much of R&D money in CMOS sensor industry is directed to improvement in saturation level (more room for overexposure), and solve the noise problem with AI.

Very interesting to see Paule’s Zr vs S1ii comparison. In his Prores Raw in DaVinci Resolve video comments he said he was surprised that S1ii internal PRRaw had the same amount of sharpening and noise than H.265, which shouldn’t be the case. Could explain the 10 stop latitude. Very close to pulling the trigger on Zr, but still in doubt if 4 inch screen is as good and convenient to use than Z6iii’s EVF, where you can correct your near sight vision. Don’t want to look the Zr display from meter away now, it would get quite uncomfortable fast🤣

For me, the iPhone has been competent for filming since the 13 pro max. I’ve produced whole documentaries with it. Now with the 17 pro max out, with an iPhone and maybe an action camera, I can document high quality content while being extra nimble and incognito.

They are from the same sensor and if the ZR can achieve the same as the S1ii, then it would already be very very good (RED Raptor territory). The S1ii has the DR boost mode which showed 10 stops of latitude, that is Alexa LF level, but with 27ms, which is not great at all.