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Could Nikon be about to enter digital cinema market?


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#1 EOSHD

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 10:37 PM

Aptina dragon

Today sees the announcement of a new DSLR sensor from one of Nikon's recent sensor supplier's Aptina which has a headline spec of 4K video at up to 80fps.

The highly rated company says it is 'combining DSLR image quality and 4K digital cinema' with the new AR1411HS sensor. Along with Nikon being on the record for wanting to add 4K video to future Nikon 1 mirrorless cameras, could the new Super 16mm sized Aptina sensor pave the way for them to do a Cinema EOS style range and 4K on DSLRs?

Read the full article here
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#2 gethin

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 11:49 PM

I dont need the 4k, its about low noise, high sensitivity and dynamic range and 60fps for me.  Nikon are the only big camera maker that don't need to worry about cannibalising sales of their video cameras (for the obvious reason). 6 months ago I resigned myself to investing in a separate video solution after looking at what sony nikon and canon were offering in their full frame dslrs.  I jumped to Nikon FF from canon crop. I would love nikon to start taking video more seriously. I'd love it even more if they worked on improving the video in their DSLRS rather than creating a vertically integrated product line, but hey ho, thats market forces for you.



#3 gethin

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 11:51 PM

Oh and if they do 4K raw, you can bet it will compete with the canon cinema cameras on price rather than the blackmagic :/



#4 alanpoiuyt

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 02:17 AM

Loving the image out of the D5200. Thanks for the heads up on that sensor, Andrew. Shot this on Sunday. No CC - just Filmconvert. Really like Nikon's colors compared to my GH2.


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#5 Alex Carignan

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 03:37 AM

Yeah, honestly, I don't really want 4K. It's actually a minus for me: I won't use it and pay more for it if I want the camera that offers it. For example, without the 4K, the BMPCC would be perfect for me.



#6 seattledv

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 04:10 AM

Nikon has enough engineering and marketing resources to develop just about any camera they want. The Nikon 1 system with a 1" sensor has the potential to be a Black Magic Pocket Cinema competitor. It's surprising to me that there's been little mention of the styling similarities between the Nikon 1 series and the BMPC. They have similar size sensors as well. Of course Nikon could also challenge the Canon C series if they chose to develop a large sensor cinema line. I hope Nikon has the vision and determination to develop a dedicated cinema/video camera division. They already have a vast array of lenses that could be integrated with Matrix metering, AF, Vibration Reduction and even a power zoom. An innovative adapter like the FT-1 could allow for the use of Nikon legacy lenses. IMO the biggest question is whether Nikon has the corporate vision and leadership to execute a dedicated video/cinema camera division. So far, Nikon has mostly been a sleeping giant when it comes to video and cinema camera development. I hope they awaken with a passion. Otherwise we'll all be waiting until 2020 when Black Magic finally announces it has an M4/3 mount with fully dedicated electronics for ANY feature offered by lenses from Panasonic, Olympus or other m4/3 lens manufacturer.


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#7 XXX

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 09:38 AM

I guess there are good reasons Nikon never entered the video market.

Canon started to address professionals years ago with the XL1 (and of course had many cams for the consumer market) and Nikon never seemed to want a piece of that. So I somehow don´t believe that suddenly the low selling/high service "pro video" market is that attractive.

They even haven`t entered the medium format market, sth much more obvious for a photo company and a recent "trend" for photographers, who want/need to distinguish themselves from all the D800 "strobists" out there.

But taking the HDSLR crown from Canon, that course seems to be set...



#8 tttulio

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 11:12 AM

Who is the supplier to the BlackMagic Pocket Camera?



#9 Tzedekh

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 01:23 PM

Who is the supplier to the BlackMagic Pocket Camera?

 

Most likely BAE's Fairchild Imaging division.



#10 Tzedekh

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 01:28 PM

The Aptina AR1011HS, likely the commercially available version of the chip in the V1, was announced last September, and I was hoping GoPro might announce a 4K camera with the sensor and CineForm RAW for significantly less than $1,000.



#11 riccardocovino

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 02:20 PM

Loving the image out of the D5200. Thanks for the heads up on that sensor, Andrew. Shot this on Sunday. No CC - just Filmconvert. Really like Nikon's colors compared to my GH2.

 

colours and grain in your video are so natural!

D5200 is really a great camera for such low price..



#12 EOSHD

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 03:31 PM

The Aptina AR1011HS, likely the commercially available version of the chip in the V1, was announced last September, and I was hoping GoPro might announce a 4K camera with the sensor and CineForm RAW for significantly less than $1,000.

 

Not the V1. It is 14MP so likely the V2. (This announcement was made yesterday by the way)



#13 FilmMan

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 03:39 PM

This video was posted here before, which shows the Nikon capabilities.  4K would be amazing.  Nikon has an unique look.  Cheers.


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#14 Tzedekh

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 03:45 PM

The Aptina AR1011HS, likely the commercially available version of the chip in the V1, was announced last September, and I was hoping GoPro might announce a 4K camera with the sensor and CineForm RAW for significantly less than $1,000.

 
Not the V1. It is 14MP so likely the V2. (This announcement was made yesterday by the way)

 

I'm referring to the AR1011HS, announced in September 2012, not the AR1411HS. The AR1011HS has specs identical to the V1's. It too can do 60 fps, but only up to 3,840 x 1,920 (aka QuadHD and 4k UltraHD).

 

As a side note, Image Sensors World incorrectly cited an 86-dB dynamic range (roughly 14 stops theoretically) for the AR1411HS. The correct figure is 79 db, or about 13 stops theoretically (in practice likely to be less).



#15 mike_tee_vee

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 04:18 PM

Nikon have a habit of doing things almost as half baked as Canon.  With "limitations" like inability to adjust aperture while filming, 29.97 on HDMI out (D5200), and the tiny buffers of the V1 and V2, Nikon are in good company with Canon, Sony, and even Panasonic.



#16 EOSHD

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 04:19 PM

Ah got you. 79db still a nice improvement on the old sensor which was rated 66db.

 

I wish they'd just use stops!



#17 EOSHD

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 04:19 PM

Nikon have a habit of doing things almost as half baked as Canon.  With "limitations" like inability to adjust aperture while filming, 29.97 on HDMI out (D5200), and the tiny buffers of the V1 and V2, Nikon are in good company with Canon, Sony, and even Panasonic.

 

They put in what they need for stills, and see video as a bonus. When they come to do a proper video camera I am sure they will ensure a margin of at least $10,000 :)



#18 seattledv

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 04:28 PM

colours and grain in your video are so natural!

D5200 is really a great camera for such low price..

I agree 100%. A great example of how filmic the D5200 can look.



#19 seattledv

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 04:41 PM

Nikon have a habit of doing things almost as half baked as Canon.  With "limitations" like inability to adjust aperture while filming, 29.97 on HDMI out (D5200), and the tiny buffers of the V1 and V2, Nikon are in good company with Canon, Sony, and even Panasonic.

You're right. All the major manufacturers have been doing this for a long time. That's why the effort from Black Magic, Ikonoskop, RED, KineRaw, Digital Bolex, Magic Lantern, Vitaliy and the Gh2 hackers are so important. They challenge the status quo and may ultimately get one or more of the major manufacturers to respond with changes in the way they do business.


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#20 Tzedekh

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 05:06 PM

Ah got you. 79db still a nice improvement on the old sensor which was rated 66db.

 

I wish they'd just use stops!

 

They probably never will. The dynamic range figure they quote is a computed value, not an observed one as "X stops" would imply. It's derived with the following equation:

 

dynamic range in dB = 20 x log(fullwell capacity ÷ readout noise)

 

As you can probably guess, this is a theoretical figure, not an observed one gotten by looking at a chart. And the "X stops" figure we toss around here is derived from that figure (i.e., by dividing by 6). That's why I'm a little suspicious of BMD's 12-stop claim for the 4K Pro camera, as the theoretical limit is 10 stops without the CMV12000's HDR tricks. Of course, the CMV could in practice be somewhat better than its specs suggest, but it's unlikely to be two stops better.


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