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Ikonoskop A-cam dll versus Blackmagic Cinema Camera

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#1
Andrew Reid

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:05 PM

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Read more in the first part of this article

Back in November I tested the Ikonoskop A-cam dll with Rob of Slashcam.de and Ludwig Reuter of HD Video Shop here in Berlin.

We spent a few hours comparing it to the Blackmagic Cinema Camera - here's how it turned out.
 


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#2
Ernesto Mántaras

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:47 PM

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The Ikonoskop looked more cinematic to me, though the BMCC seemed to have more dynamic range.

There's a green tint on the Ikonoskop shadows. Is that because of the correction you made to get rid of the magenta tones?

Also, CCD is great, but I remember one thing that got me excited when the first few CMOS appeared on the market (on the Sony A1 and the HV10/20, which is the one I started using and fell in love with): the lack of vertical light smearing.
If the Ikonoskop has a CCD sensor does that represent the return of the vertical light smearing? Or have CCDs evolved and gotten rid of that artifact?

Thanks for the comparison!


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#3
richg101

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:47 PM

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The Ikonoskop has a lovely 'painted image' look to it.  i'd love one of these!



#4
FilmMan

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:16 PM

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Thanks for posting.  Alot of work goes into this, which I appreciate.  Cheers.



#5
Andrew Reid

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:26 PM

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Thanks for posting.  Alot of work goes into this, which I appreciate.  Cheers.

 

Certainly more than the other blogs who leech from 100 RSS feeds and sell ads around other people's content :)



#6
Andrew Reid

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:28 PM

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The Ikonoskop looked more cinematic to me, though the BMCC seemed to have more dynamic range.

There's a green tint on the Ikonoskop shadows. Is that because of the correction you made to get rid of the magenta tones?

Also, CCD is great, but I remember one thing that got me excited when the first few CMOS appeared on the market (on the Sony A1 and the HV10/20, which is the one I started using and fell in love with): the lack of vertical light smearing.
If the Ikonoskop has a CCD sensor does that represent the return of the vertical light smearing? Or have CCDs evolved and gotten rid of that artifact?

Thanks for the comparison!

 

Weird isn't it... The BMCC's sharpness and dynamic range seems to work against it in this comparison.

 

It just seems too smooth and broadcast like.

 

The Ikonoskop is a bit quirky and not just when it comes to the image, which is why I love it.

 

But it is VERY hard to put your finger on exactly WHY the image is so cinematic.

 

We used a very nice Zeiss 16mm lens on it which will contribute, but the colour and feel of the image is mainly down to the camera.


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#7
Andrew Reid

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:31 PM

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There's a green tint on the Ikonoskop shadows. Is that because of the correction you made to get rid of the magenta tones?

 

Partly yes but look at the 2nd shot in (the musicians). That is more towards magenta.

 

Like I say there is a very fine line in the colour tint in Resolve with Ikonoskop footage compared to the Blackmagic raw.



#8
shijan

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:50 PM

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Ikonoskop:

- purple tint (as usual)

- low dymamic range => image exposed differently than BMCC => deep dark shadows, which may cause people think that camera has more cinematic-dramatic look... also uncomfortable burning highlights.

- slightly softer image, but for example cello strings looks better.

 

BMCC:

- greenish tint (unexpectedly)

- slightly sharper image, but sharper not always means better

- yes it has more aliasing and moire.

- rolling shutter bla bla bla

 

 

p.s. thanks for this long awaited comparison ;)



#9
Andrew Reid

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:52 PM

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The tint you can compensate for in post, but somehow the response of the sensor has an influence even on raw.

 

We went into the test knowing how to expose the Ikonoskop - it is true that you expose for the highlights, whilst the BMCC is the other way - it benefits from being exposed more to the right.



#10
shijan

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:59 PM

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BMCC aliasing style:

2ylkc9e.png



#11
tony wilson

Posted 08 March 2013 - 09:01 PM

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ccd lovely kodak ccd analogue beauty.
give me a danish women refined firm yet soft in a goodly way.

rough aussie with painted sharp visage like window sometimes likely to crack
fine for a one night stand
but give me ccd and danish for a week a month or year.
ikonoskope showing a proper filmic heritage here.


andrew sell your bmc and blag a deal from ikonoskop.
iscorama and ikonoskop filum is needed : )



#12
Ernesto Mántaras

Posted 08 March 2013 - 09:08 PM

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Indeed, Andrew. I didn't like the sharpness of the BMCC in this comparison (but you can get rid of that later if you want to). Moiré doesn't punch you in the face, so I don't see it as an issue.

Now, the cinematic has something to do with how the Ikonoskop renders motion, I don't think it has anything to do with the contrast.
By the way, what about lifting its shadows? How does that look?


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#13
shijan

Posted 08 March 2013 - 09:40 PM

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difference in sharpness also can be caused by different lenses or different DOF, so its can't be too objective in this test.

again back to filmic look its also too complex and subjective. for example scene with bike as for me more cinematic in BMCC version, and scene with musicians is more filmic in ikonoskop version. 

if exclude artistic feel, composition, lighting and other outside factors, the filmic "look" its not a magic its just a complex of parameters of camera: dynamic range, shutter speed (not sure about shutter type, but would like to find the truth)+exposure+lens+aperture+grain+zero digital artifacts+you can do anything with colors if you shoot raw.

 

so slightly different shutter speeds - and one footage became less "filmic" than other.



#14
Dr. John R. Brinkley

Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:39 PM

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I like the Ikonoskop image better.  Goofy analogy, but the Ikonoskop reminds me of EXR and the BMCC reminds me of Vision film stock.



#15
Caleb Genheimer

Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:26 AM

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Hmm, I thought the Ikonoskop looked rather video-ish. It mostly seemed like the colors were just plain difficult. The BMCC color looks gorgeous, and the dynamic range seemed to be greater on it too. I prefer the sharpness also of the BMCC. You can always get rid of that with a soft lens or a filter, but it has to be sharp in the first place. 2.5K on the BMCc seems to be a sweet-spot resolution for 1080p delivery. Here's to hoping they can really get off the ground and get the BMCC out to people. I'd love to see a BMCC with a S35mm sensor, because whatever they'er doing, they're mostly doing right, at least in terms of the image.



#16
TC

Posted 09 March 2013 - 01:58 AM

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I was wondering when the rest of this would appear.  For me, the Blackmagic looks to have a superior image.  



#17
Fergutor

Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:20 AM

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If the Ikonoskop has a CCD sensor does that represent the return of the vertical light smearing? Or have CCDs evolved and gotten rid of that artifact?

 

 

     Yes It does have it, CCD's still the same:

 

At 0.53 you have a big smearing. The thing with this camera is that as far as I remember, It is not 1 sensor but 4, each next to the other forming 1 big sensor. Each sensor is called quadrant and have its own operational conditions, as temperature, artifacts, etc, which cause singular problems for this solution.  If I got something wrong please correct me.



#18
Edward Zaee

Posted 09 March 2013 - 07:13 AM

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I didn't like the Ikonoskop, feels like a crappy Instagram filter on it.

 

 

To my eyes the BMCC looks fantastic, better flexibility in color grading.



#19
nickname

Posted 09 March 2013 - 08:56 AM

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i think the ikonoskop looks more cinematic to some, including me, because of the higher black levels. in projection film never had as low blacks as digital. this makes the image look less crisp and adds to the nice filmic softness.

the grade of the bmcc with the dark blacks seems to swallow information in the shadows, while the dark greys seem to make the iko image richer or more balanced in information.

so maybe it´s also a question of grading, of not bringing down the blacks as far as technically possible but to go for a slight grey tone that gives me the impression that i could look into the shadows if i wanted to.

 

great comparison! thanks!



#20
cameraboy

Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:36 PM

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there is a big difference between CCD  and CMOS sensors in image look ...

i always like CCD more ( more dense organic colors)....

sony f35 (panavision genesis ) image looks more like film than alexa ... 

but of course ALEXA beats F35 in dynamic range ...






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