Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Digital Bolex D16 cinema camera gets huge upgrade

64 posts in this topic

Posted

Digital Bolex

I'm really impressed by this new Digital Bolex blog post detailing what they have been spending all this extra time on. The project has had a massive yet very sensible improvement on the original specs of the camera.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

These audio features actually makes it more interesting than the BMCC to me now. Just wonder how the complete workflow will look like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Seriously?  Who makes camera purchasing decisions based on audio?  

 

If you're not one-man covering live news, considering shooting RAW, planning color correction of any kind, or "need" more than what the average smart phone can do nowadays you should be recording important audio with proper audio gear.

 

Maybe I'm just kooky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Seriously?  Who makes camera purchasing decisions based on audio?  

 

If you're not one-man covering live news, considering shooting RAW, planning color correction of any kind, or "need" more than what the average smart phone can do nowadays you should be recording important audio with proper audio gear.

 

Maybe I'm just kooky.

I just believe it is a big plus :)

 

And since the price point will be similar to the BMCC and this therefore will need less extra investments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

If you're not one-man covering live news, considering shooting RAW, planning color correction of any kind, or "need" more than what the average smart phone can do nowadays you should be recording important audio with proper audio gear.

 

Many DSLR shooters are single shooters. Most use Zoom or Tascam recorders, which aren't professional either, but will give them a much better sound quality than the built in sound capabilities in most if not all DSLRs. These are small devices and yet still a pain in the ass to have to carry and operate by yourself, having similar quality if not better is a big plus. This camera doesn't seem to be designed for large crews either, though it could be if the image quality and workflow live up to the specs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

The 3rd and 4th XLR are not for audio. They are 12V DC Power XLR in and out plugs. So there is "just" only 2 audio XLR input. Personnally I'm perfectly fine with that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

And in this post they didn't mention one of the coolest improvements: full sensor recording, perfect for anamorphic!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

What happend to release early and often.
I personally feel that this is the biggest vapourware camera ever announced.
Why would one even want such a body shape?
Why couldn't they have thought of these features before? I find it as just an excuse to delay delivery even more.

If there would be some one to make a camera with features that would be asked for then I think that Andrew can make a list of things to include in an hour.
 

List:

ND filter

XLR audio (phantom powered) 2x with control knops on body
3G HD-SDI (10 bit 4:2:2)

Genlock

HDMI EVF output

Raw & ProRes (not downscaled to 1080p)

Full frame?

4K (but lower priced models with 2.4K resolutions)

10 bit 4:2:2

12 stops minimum

24/25/30/50/60p options
SSD slot (modular)

Dont' know about mount-s
Maybe a full frame option Speed Booster Adapter thing would be more ideal than a dedicated mout
9-14volt power input 4 pin XLR

And power base option modular
No wires on the left side
Not as wide as the BMCC, more like the Sony F55

 

Andrew, what do you think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

If they had stuck to their original specs like BMD did maybe they could have cameras out already, like BMD does. Kind of... Would we gain anything from that though?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

what do you think?

 

I think you just described the Sony F55 ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

And in this post they didn't mention one of the coolest improvements: full sensor recording, perfect for anamorphic!

 

Got a link for more info? Somehow I missed this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

They mentioned it before, the specs list on their website is updated with this info:

 

http://www.digitalbolex.com/products/

 

Resolution:

2336 x 1752 (4×3)

2048 x 1152 (Super 16mm mode)

1920 x 1080 pixels (16mm mode)

1280×720 (720p mode)

720×480 (480p mode)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

. Most use Zoom or Tascam recorders, which aren't professional either, but will give them a much better sound quality than the built in sound capabilities in most if not all DSLRs....

 

Sorry, I stopped reading here.  There are no camera audio systems that will outperform these.  These systems are perfectly fine for film production, something no DSLR audio system or camcorder system or even the audio on a CineAlta can say.

 

Shooting to in-camera because external devices are a pain in the ass is the shooter being lazy.  If they can afford $3K or $6K or $12K they can afford to, and learn to, do it right, especially if they're shooting anything that warrants more quality or attention that what you'd get out of an iPhone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Why would one even want such a body shape?

 

I said the exact same thing about the Fisher Price BMCC toy.  filmmakers today are far more liberal!  :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I said the exact same thing about the Fisher Price BMCC toy.  filmmakers today are far more liberal!  :P

 

Only when you said that you didn't have a leg to stand on.  You kinda have a point here.  At $3K this is a little overkill for the bajillion of people that used to use Super-8mm cameras (which this design brings to mind much more than a true 16mm Bolex).  Take the pistol grip off of it though and it's really no less adaptable to actual, real shooting conditions than what a bajillion people dealt with shooting on prosumer DV gear for years. 

 

As is it's still better than any DSLR that's not rigged out in some way to overcome their design weaknesses when not used to shoot stills.  

 

All jokes aside, selecting (or not selecting) a camera based on its exterior looks instead of what it can do makes as much sense as selecting a camera based on its in-camera audio capabilities.  Priorities.  Get some.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

they need to quit that silly body shape, stick the electronics in a square die cast housing, whack a c mount on the front and sell the damn thing.  I don't know what is taking them so long.  they are dreaming while living off a load of money pledged by kickstarter backers..  Just how the BMCC isn't a viable business move, neither is this.  Both are not economically viable, silly ideas by people who dont understand manufacturing.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Sorry, I stopped reading here.  There are no camera audio systems that will outperform these.  These systems are perfectly fine for film production, something no DSLR audio system or camcorder system or even the audio on a CineAlta can say.

 

That's all very relative, it wouldn't be that hard to stick a couple of quality preamps in a camera and then add it to the videofile at 24 bit resolution, it's all you need from those devices, a way to plug your xlr mics, power them and measure audio levels, do you think it's that hard to get it right in a camera (if that's the manufacturer's wish)?

 

When you say "These systems are perfectly fine for film production", I know many audio guys that would argue otherwise, it's like saying that a Canon Rebel is perfectly fine for film production, which it could definitely be. Also you're talking about "film production" when I was talking about "single shooters".

 

This guy would also disagree:

http://youtu.be/KKVeBqhXMvM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Yes but Bruno those likely to buy a BMC or Digital Bolex will be buying to make films.. Nice to have onboard sound for synching up to what you recorded seperately though and sometimes nice to have it as a back up. .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted


There are no camera audio systems that will outperform these.


There are several devices that will give you much better sound than a Zoom H4n or similarly priced Tascam recorder. I own a Tascam DR-100, it's great for what it is, I've used it and will definitely use it again, but does it have the cleanest preamps out there? Hell no! These things are so compact and try to do so much that you can even listen to the SD card activity interference in some situations! If you know a thing or two about preamps you'll know these recorders' preamps are decent, but far from "professional quality" and perfectly matchable by any camera that tries to. Most of what you pay for is the firmware, card recorder, plugs, headphone amplifier, etc etc, which you already have in any camera anyway!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Yes but Bruno those likely to buy a BMC or Digital Bolex will be buying to make films.. Nice to have onboard sound for synching up to what you recorded seperately though and sometimes nice to have it as a back up. .


Those can still get proper off board sound, my point is that most DSLR shooters are using cheaper recorders which quality could be easily matched if not raised by the camera's internal audio, saving everyone a lot of time in post.

For more professional uses, it's also nice to be able to plug a feed out of the sound board to the camera's XLR ports.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Yeah I have to disagree BurnetRhoades. Its not being lazy if it provides great quality. From what I'm reading about the Bolex, the audio looks to be pretty legit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

What a nice and romantic project, doubt this will ever go anywhere. By the time they are ready to produce in masses (if they ever will be), consumer camcorders will be on the level of a sony f55.

 

Kudos though for trying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Those can still get proper off board sound, my point is that most DSLR shooters are using cheaper recorders which quality could be easily matched if not raised by the camera's internal audio, saving everyone a lot of time in post.

For more professional uses, it's also nice to be able to plug a feed out of the sound board to the camera's XLR ports.

Whats the point recording RAW and go through workflow hell to get the best picture you can then scrimp on what is 50% by recording less than perfect sound. The BMC or digital bolex will take care of a cinema standard picture. The camera operator should worry about his picture and framing and where the focus puller is rather than be monitoring sound. OH you would monitor the sound wouldn't you? Well if yes then that has to be done by the sound recordist.

The problem is these large sensor cameras need crews and while you can get by with talking heads if your making a film you need to wire people for sound and monitor it. Okay if you want to make a test film with a single actor and very little else then maybe but I would suggest this camera is not for those sort of people who would be better served with a second hand Sony EX1 than an attention seeking film camera that requires all the tradittional  film making skills.

The BMC/Digital Bolex solve just one small problem the picture as for lights sound cast crew location script these all cost money too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

All jokes aside, selecting (or not selecting) a camera based on its exterior looks instead of what it can do makes as much sense as selecting a camera based on its in-camera audio capabilities.  Priorities.  Get some.

 

So what you are really trying to say is that the BMCC is for all ages?!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Having good onboard audio is always a plus. With quality increasing and price dropping the lines have been blurred between what is professional and what is prosumer. I think many of the complaints are not taking into account a perspective outside your own.

 

I know that many documentarians will love this camera as it has some sense of spirit and life to it, rather than being a dull functional box, and having audio will allow people to be a one man band, which is where everything is headed anyways.

 

I think the pistol grip is kind of cool. It is an aesthetic allusion to the old home movie cameras. I think most normal non film people would say this camera looks cool and actually looks like a camera, not a hard drive with a hole for a lens.

 

Also, if you read their blog you will notice that they are taking their time instead of releasing a version that then later needs to be immediately updated, like something Apple would do.

 

It's hard for me to see anything wrong with this camera. And if it never makes it to market, it will still have an impact because it's another warning shot across the bow of the big camera companies. The market is changing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites