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APS-C and Super 35mm just went full frame - Metabones Speed Booster

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#41
Julian

Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:04 PM

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m43 camera > Speedbooster Leica R to m43 > m43 to Leica R adapter (passive) > whatever format to m43

 

I don't see the point or logic there.. if you want to adapt other lenses, the EOS adapter would be the best option.

 

On the EOS mount you can use Canon EF (of course), Nikon F, M42 and Leica R with adapters.

 

You can't use 'whatever format' because the register distance will have to be as long as Canon EF mount at least. Leica M, Canon FD etc is no option.


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#42
Andrew Reid

Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:06 PM

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Does this mean I can use wider taking lenses for anamorphic? ... or the opposite?

 

Opposite, like on a full frame sensor you will need a longer focal length to avoid vignetting with the anamorphic.



#43
nickname

Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:08 PM

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am i just not understanding it? is it not just something like a fixed zoom lens? or lets say similar to a 35-50 f2.8 to 4 zoom but just to screw on? in the end the physical sensor size doesn´t change.

 

does it really create a ff image on a crop sensor or doesn´t it just work as a wide angle converter? or is the same? if it is i´d like a medium format to f-mount speed booster please! that would be really revolutionary. and would save me 30.000 for a H4D! there must be a catch why nobody has done that so far. there is hasselblad to nikkor adaptor, but withoutbthe glass.



#44
Andrew Reid

Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:10 PM

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Before we all get too excited, I think there are technical reasons why optical reducers aren't commonplace.

 

They are used on astronomical telescopes, but that's a different situation from using them on video or stills cameras.

 

If I recall correctly from the dim distant days when I was into amateur astronomy, optical reducers can suffer from vignetting and also limit the range of distances at which the setup can be focussed. With an astronomical telescope that's no problem as you are almost always focusing near infinity - but with a camera for terrestrial use not being able to focus closer than (say) 100 feet would be a big limitation!

 

So I think it remains to be seen what the practical issues are - it may be that these things will only be workable with certain camera/lens combinations.

 

If it was a panacea for getting the FF look on small sensor cameras I'm sure the big manufacturers would have been on to it by now...

 

Regarding focus, the focus point on James Miller's video with the bottles is what... half a metre? It would appear they got around any focus issues here.



#45
Andrew Reid

Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:12 PM

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It is. This thing saves a shitload of money you'd have to spend on glass and this is the most amazing wide angle solution for MFT...

 

Cheap 50mm f/1.8 = 35mm f/1.2
Cheap 24mm f/2.8 = 17mm f/2
Sigma 20mm f/1.8 = 14mm f/1.2 (drool)

 

Actually the adapter for micro four thirds would have different glass in it to suit the sensor size, 0.5x instead of 0.71x so your Sigma 20mm F1.8 would be a 10mm (at F1.0??!) and the same 20mm equivalent wide angle on full frame on the 2x crop sensor of the GH3.

 

The speed gain for the 2x crop sensor will be even greater than for the 1.5x crop Sony E-mount sensors.



#46
Andrew Reid

Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:15 PM

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Imagine a version of this with only the speed booster : MFT camera > speed booster > MFT lens.

Those would be killer!

 

You can't have the speed boost on its own. The speed boost is a result of the optics here, of reducing the image circle down to fit the smaller sensor.

 

Imagine ants under a magnifying glass. The smaller the circle of light projected by the glass the hotter and brighter it is.



#47
richg101

Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:51 PM

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Now... How does a NEX6 _ speed booster + canon 24-70mm f2.8 L zoom sound? BOOM!

Phase AF, low pixel rating of 16mp while still getting full frame field of view, and a 24-70mm f1.8 equivalent!

(assuming metabones implement AF on this like they say they will on the current nex-ef via firmware

#48
Bruno

Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:59 PM

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The Speed Booster makes your focal length shorter, you win light, dof and sharpness (in theory..).


It's more like if it makes your sensor bigger.

When you use a 50mm on an APS-C sized sensor, you get roughly the equivalent of an 80mm, with this adapter you'd keep it as 50mm, no more math.

#49
Julian

Posted 14 January 2013 - 02:28 PM

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Actually the adapter for micro four thirds would have different glass in it to suit the sensor size, 0.5x instead of 0.71x so your Sigma 20mm F1.8 would be a 10mm (at F1.0??!) and the same 20mm equivalent wide angle on full frame on the 2x crop sensor of the GH3.

 

The speed gain for the 2x crop sensor will be even greater than for the 1.5x crop Sony E-mount sensors.

 

Did Metabones state this somewhere? A 0,5x Speed Booster sounds great... but I suppose it would be harder to manufacture and it would be bigger/more expensive. If they could pull it off it would be awesome. every cheap fullframe f/2.8 wideangle turning into f/1.4... :wub:



#50
emgesp

Posted 14 January 2013 - 02:56 PM

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It's more like if it makes your sensor bigger.

When you use a 50mm on an APS-C sized sensor, you get roughly the equivalent of an 80mm, with this adapter you'd keep it as 50mm, no more math.


Exactly, it just squeezes a Full-Frame sensor FOV onto the smaller crop sensor. Technology is amazing. 

Canon needs to start making some solid EOS-M bodies now. 



#51
andy lee

Posted 14 January 2013 - 02:56 PM

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BTW

You can already do something very similar to this using an Olympus x0.8 wide angle adaptor or a Century Optics x0.8

Centry Optics glass is stunningly sharp mine has a 72mm back so it work on most lenses

 

or an Isco or Schneider Magna Com Progection lens focal length converter

 

You dont get the faster F stop BUT you do get a sharper wider image

 

50mm becomes 35mm

35mm becomes 28mm etc

 

The Schneider and Isco Magna Coms are superb stunning hi end cinema glass they cost 1000s of Dollars new but I got mine both on ebay for $80

 

(Kubrick used Kollmorgen Magna Com focal length modifer on the front of his Nasa lens to make a 50mm lens into a 35mm )

trusy me the Schneider and Isco Magna Coms are even better than the Kollmorgen version which as a 1070's lens

The Schneider and Iscos are modern new stunning glass.

 

I use these on my Tecnoir Cinema Rig in a similar way to how I use my anamorphic lenses

The same adaptors work on the Magna Coms


Andy Lee
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'If it looks good , it is good!'


#52
Liszon

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:08 PM

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This is insane!

 

The only drawback I see at the moment is this:

 

Autofocus speed is very slow and inadequate for most moving subjects. The autofocus speed is unfit for professional use for sure, and it would disappoint most enthusiasts.

 

www.metabones.com

 

Still, if you wish to have the option to capture the full frame look with your existing APS-C mirrorless camera, this adapter is a no-brainer!

 

Or.. for movies, where the AF is useless anyway, it's a revolution for a bargain price!


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#53
Muttondraw

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:13 PM

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....An optical reducer is something I have long thought was possible on a DSLR and wondered why nobody had made one....

 

I had often puzzled over the same question. You can actually already get a Reducer for cinema lenses, Vantage have had a (expensive) 0.7x PL mount reducer available for years 

 

http://www.vantagefi...2-10_01_i.shtml

 

But it isn't general purpose, it is only appropriate for long focal length lenses. I think this must relate to the same issue that Chris Mann identified. If the light exiting the lens is almost parallel it isn't too much of a problem if you introduce a reducer, but that won't work for wide angle lenses without losing infinity focusing. 

 

Maybe metabones have added a collimating lens ahead of the reducer in a similar way that Canon and Fujinon do in the extender section of ENG lenses. ENG lenses used to come with 0.8x reducers built in working alongside the extender, to reduce the image circle when cropping a 4x3 sensor to 16x9. There the reduction happened in that collimated space.

 

I find it difficult to believe there is a conspiracy to deny us photographic reducers, Maybe it has just been too expensive to do so with sufficient quality. It will be interesting to see what the quality is of the image from the metabones adapter. I would love to see a test chart.



#54
Muttondraw

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:28 PM

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Of course it just dawned on me, metabones are moving the lens closer to image plane, the reduction happens because the lens is closer to the image plane, so projecting to a smaller image circle. I presume the optics in the adapter are to compensate for the reduced flange focal distance so that that image is projected in focus on that image plane.



#55
Purpleone

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:39 PM

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This is a really exciting product, however...  there are a lot of posts getting excited about using all sorts of cheaper lenses.  But from what I see the adapter will turn your cam into an ef mount, alpha mount or leica r mount.   You are then going to have to adapt your FD or what ever legacy lens to one of those 3 mounts.  Not so easy and not so straight forward as many need extra glass for infinity focus and finding good ones is more difficult.  Also you then have 2 adapters, and possibly more 'play' in the lens mounting.    

 

I have several canon FD lenses and would love to have them at full frame equivalent on m43, but I'm not sure the current road map for this gives me what I need.  I hope I'm wrong.  But this may not be aas good for legacy lenses as it seems at first.

 

Also I don't think it will make f2.0 into f1.4 lens.  It will give the equivalent brightness of a f1.4 due to conentrated image, but not change the dof characteristics, surely it will still give the original characteristics of the lens.  dof will be as f2.0.  When the website talks about .71wider it is talking about .71 wider on a s35, which brings the lens back to 50mm full frame, so when it talks about 1 stop increase in apeture, again bringing it back to FF equivalent??

 

So will this mainly be for current lenses(ef etc) or can we use legacy glass?


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#56
richg101

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:50 PM

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BTW

You can already do something very similar to this using an Olympus x0.8 wide angle adaptor or a Century Optics x0.8

Centry Optics glass is stunningly sharp mine has a 72mm back so it work on most lenses

 

or an Isco or Schneider Magna Com Progection lens focal length converter

 

You dont get the faster F stop BUT you do get a sharper wider image

 

50mm becomes 35mm

35mm becomes 28mm etc

 

The Schneider and Isco Magna Coms are superb stunning hi end cinema glass they cost 1000s of Dollars new but I got mine both on ebay for $80

 

(Kubrick used Kollmorgen Magna Com focal length modifer on the front of his Nasa lens to make a 50mm lens into a 35mm )

trusy me the Schneider and Isco Magna Coms are even better than the Kollmorgen version which as a 1070's lens

The Schneider and Iscos are modern new stunning glass.

 

I use these on my Tecnoir Cinema Rig in a similar way to how I use my anamorphic lenses

The same adaptors work on the Magna Coms

 

Hey Andy.

 

Please can you let me know the century model number for the wide angle adaptors with 72mm rear elements?  Im looking for one for anamorphic use



#57
jessekorgemaa

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:55 PM

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For the record, a 24-70 2.8 does not suddenly become a 24-70 1.8. It gives you the same look as a 24-70 2.8 on FF.

So more like 18-50 1.8 or whatever the math would be.

a 50mm does not become a 35mm, it just acts as a 50mm is menat to act.

This is a pretty interesting product though, hopefully they can make more mounts.

We can pretty much leave math out of it and pretend you have FF sensor, much easier. 


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#58
gene_can_sing

Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:21 PM

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Metabones is an incredible company. I had the Metabones EOS to NEX adapter Mark I and it was good, but the Mark II was incredible piece of engineering. Rock solid and even does IS. Now this? I wish all companies thought like Metabones and strove to break the barriers. I'm trying to make myself feel better by telling myself that this adapter can live along side the original Metabones Mark II (which is does if you need longer reach), but damn.... I want this thing.

 

Does anyone else see the irony in this? Canon lenses now have more functionality on Non-Canon bodies. You cannot do this with the C300 or the C100 because of the flange length. Canon gets foiled again.


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#59
Julian

Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:30 PM

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By the way.. if Metabones would make a 0,71x adapter for M43, it would probably work fine with aps-c-lenses! Not EF-S, because of the rear element. But Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8, Tamron 17-50mm 2.8 Sigma 30mm f/1.4, etc... they would behave the same on M43 as they do on aps-c.



#60
Matt

Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:53 PM

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Just read the write up on Philip Bloom's site.

 

If you read the comments you get Canon owners asking if they can use it with their Canon lenses. Bless em!


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