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Canon 1DC Official Pricing

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Posted

It seems Canon now has adjusted their pricing for their 4k dslr.

The 1DC is priced at [size=5][b]$11,999.[/b][/size]

Links:

[url="http://shop.texasmediasystems.com/Canon-EOS-1D-C-Cinema-EOS-Camera-Body--6994B002_p_5046.html"]http://shop.texasmediasystems.com/Canon-EOS-1D-C-Cinema-EOS-Camera-Body--6994B002_p_5046.html[/url]

[url="http://www.abelcine.com/store/Canon-EOS-1D-C-Camera/"]http://www.abelcine.com/store/Canon-EOS-1D-C-Camera/[/url]

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Posted

Facepalm.

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Posted

Prices of 4K cameras will drop dramatically in the coming years. Canon better make the most of it!

It really angers me that after democratising filmmaking with DSLRs, they stopped for 3 years before introducing this ridiculous upgrade path -

$3000 5D Mark III ---> $6000 1D X ---> $12,000 1D C

Which is not an upgrade path for us at all.

Tired of the Rebels and 5D Mk II as a result my upgrade path went like this...

Canon in the bin ---> $700 GH2 ----> $4000 FS100 ---> $3000 Blackmagic Cinema Camera

They have completely forgotten about the enthusiast and consumer creative video market, indie filmmakers, convergence, owner-operators, the lot of 'em.

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Posted

Andrew, good post.

If you noticed the big camera manufacturers, they seem to keep their specs in line with the other guy. Canon could be the leader but is keeping with the status quo so to speak. The new "camera" competition will put pressure. Also, hats off for Red for aggressively lowering their pricing.

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Posted

The painful thing is the 1D C is a great artistic tool. A dream camera for me.

Canon seem to be able to charge what they like and pros will not see it as a problem. Most of them rent any way.

Now let's talk about the non-pro market.

This is the one I am most interested in because of the philosophy that being a cinematographer should be like being a musician. You pick up the instrument and if you are talented you go far.

A shame none of this talent will be picking up a 1D C.

A shame Canon continue to look at professional niche markets with huge margins rather than changing the world.

Changing the world seemed to work well for Apple's bank balance. I guess Canon just lack the imagination.

Their profits are down.

All I can say is... Good luck from now on.

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Posted

Meh, I certainly wouldn't turn one down if they offered it too me. It's a killer tool for just about anything, but if they feel that it's worth $13,000 friggin dollars... Let 'em do it. By next year, the competition will be undeniably more cost effective, and more attainable than a 1DC. A cinema camera in a small "dslr" form factor already came out this year at a fraction of that cost, so the idea is not so fresh.. And we can talk about the BMC all day in its monopolization of that market, but the truth is, how many of these little guys are watching this unfold this year? What's gonna come out of the woodwork next year from somebody we didn't expect? The BMC was probably just the beginning, and somebody somewhere knows it needs some competition as well. Supply and demand:)

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Posted

Here's what's funny.

Every dealer gets a nice cost by volume. If I was a sales kat for said retailer let's just say for example that the cost for a 1DX is $5,200 - and the retailer sets it at $6,800. ok... sounds like ordinary high dslr profit...

But then when you learn that a 4K version of it at about twice the price, and from my understanding the exact same build, but different firmware, that's a rape in manufacturing scheme! I'm wondering how Canon set the cost for retailers on the 1DC in justifying a "firmware" difference. Think about it. It would be bad business politics if they set the cost for the 1DC around $7000. You then see the profit gain from $12K.

or who knows. what was the S-log price upgrade for the F3 when it was offered? premium pricings for firmware upgrades are one thing, but exagerrated ones are another!

or can anyone justify the cost for this weird body scheme?

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Posted

[quote name='Leang' timestamp='1353582801' post='22105']
Here's what's funny.

Every dealer gets a nice cost by volume. If I was a sales kat for said retailer let's just say for example that the cost for a 1DX is $5,200 - and the retailer sets it at $6,800. ok... sounds like ordinary high dslr profit...

But then when you learn that a 4K version of it at about twice the price, and from my understanding the exact same build, but different firmware, that's a rape in manufacturing scheme! I'm wondering how Canon set the cost for retailers on the 1DC in justifying a "firmware" difference. Think about it. It would be bad business politics if they set the cost for the 1DC around $7000. You then see the profit gain from $12K.

or who knows. what was the S-log price upgrade for the F3 when it was offered? premium pricings for firmware upgrades are one thing, but exagerrated ones are another!

or can anyone justify the cost for this weird body scheme?
[/quote]

it's a simple fact of "you pays your money, you get your camera" most retailers will not hold stock - it will be special order. Canon have simply priced it as a professional flagship stills camera for 7,000 and a motion picture camera bolted onto the back for another 5,000. find a 4k cinema camera that can serve paparazzi, product photographers, fashion, commercial and wedding photographers in the still photography domain. for that matter find a 4k ready motion picture camera for under 5,000 as it is. then find one with a full frame sensor? and a near waterproof/dustproof body. if the full hd of the 1dc is nearly as good as the c3oo it'll be a bargain. what will be eben more of a bargain is if ML crack the 1DX and open up the same specs as on the 1dc.

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Posted

It is such a cool thing, and such a shame they don't wanna shake shit up by pricing more aggressively. Ah well, what can you do, just put money elsewhere, it's the language they'll listen to!

I think ML said they'll never do a 1D because it's not a "people's camera" (so they can't find all the bodies to risk either). Hats off for their principles!

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Posted

The 1D-C is in a league of it's own, literally no peers. A large than s35 DSLR that shoots cinematic 4K video onto cheap media with cheap batteries.

If you can't afford it, wait.... But don't hate on Canon because it's out of the league of the indie crowd, for now. New tech, especially in a niche market, will always cost a premium.

5 years ago i spent $10k+ to lug around a HVX200 and s35mm adaptor, now i can get a better image out of a GH2..... Just be patient and enjoy the great cameras in your price range.... You'll soon enough have your hands on a 4K DSLR in your price range

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Posted

4/5 years ago you'd have to drop £2/3k on a Z1! Laughable now, but it was broadcast quality & used a lot.

The 1DC looks a great all rounder & is aimed at Pros for that precise reason.
I'm really excited about what ML will be able to do with the 7D & its dual processors!

Everyone bangs on about that Canon's profits are down, but they still made a profit & that's what they see.
I'm sure next year more companies will produce something more affordable & force the hand of big boys - it'll happen just be patient.

The obsession of getting higher resolutions (2K or 4K) is only really practical if your market is a cinema screen, cause lets face it that's where it will shine & to actually spend that sort of cash on a camera that will be outdated in a year or so (if things continue as they seem to be) is crazy if you're not jobbing.

You can rent a full RED kit (includes tripod etc...) for £250 a day & if you plan/script well you can shoot a short in that time - now that's a bargain!

But hey, consumers are always going to throw their money at something. Just look at Electric Guitars: 90% of people who buy them will never play a gig or make a living & are quite willing to drop £2k+ on a Gibson - always have been always will be.
Be glad with what you can afford & don't expect a 2/4K camera for under £1000 pounds anytime soon.

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Posted

I guess I forgot that 4K TV acquisition is coming soon as well, so anything run and gun sports I guess the 1DC becomes very practical, and pros or companies will easily pay them.

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Posted

[quote name='ScreensPro' timestamp='1353587260' post='22112']
The 1D-C is in a league of it's own, literally no peers. A large than s35 DSLR that shoots cinematic 4K video onto cheap media with cheap batteries.

If you can't afford it, wait.... But don't hate on Canon because it's out of the league of the indie crowd, for now. New tech, especially in a niche market, will always cost a premium.
[/quote]

New tech? Aside from the sensor (which is from a $6000 camera not a $12,000 one) this is not new tech at all. There's nothing material or in the manufacturing of this camera that justifies the price tag. They could have made a healthy margin at $5k on this.

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Posted

[quote name='Bioskop.Inc' timestamp='1353593897' post='22118']Everyone bangs on about that Canon's profits are down, but they still made a profit & that's what they see.[/quote]

Indeed their profits are down. Remind me of my digital cinema upgrade path from the 5D Mark III again....

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Posted

[quote name='Leang' timestamp='1353582801' post='22105']
or can anyone justify the cost for this weird body scheme?
[/quote]

Like I say the firmware development R&D costs and re-wired circuitboard with a better heat sink do not in any way add up to doubling the 1DX's retail price.

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Posted

How can you possibly know?

Do you know how much software costs? rerunning circuit board? testing?

They might have a target figure of 1000 sales to regroup that money. That is alot of cameras to sell to a [b]very[/b] niche market. Your problem here is you are putting mass market costs on a product with a very finite market.

Yes, you could agrue that Canon could have launched this at $6k-$8k and made many more sales.... But, in today's market, that is not garunteed. $6k-$8k is not small change and would still be out of reach for the majority of people here.

but overall.... If you are first to launch a niche product, then you set your own price.

Overpriced? As of now, it is probably the cheapest 4K solution out there that could be used on a feature (kitted with battery, lens and media).

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Posted

I agree with Andrew. $6000 seems excessive.

Let's say the BMC sells 20000 cameras. It is a niche market that Canon had but is losing market share. If Canon gave better specs, do you think people would have been embracing BMC as they have?

The Big Boys will not rock the market too much as it takes money off the table. Gopro has a 4K camera (although not 24 frames/s) however it is 2K (24 frames/s) for $400. They are making money at that price. It includes a lens. Surely, a giant company can offer those specs with an interchangeable lens for a reasonable price? Surely Gopro had to spend on research and development.

Canon came out with the 5D2 years ago. Their upgrade path years later was the 5D3. People wanted better color space such as 8 bit/10 bit, 422. Nope. How about true 1080p without the shrinking then upscaling? Nope. Look how detailed the GH2 video is. Surely Canon could have offered. Sony is coming out with alot of cameras, but are the specs truly earth shattering? They seem to be towing the same line with respect to specs. If you are willing to pay $20K then the specs are excellent.

Why can a new camera as the BMC offer a $3K camera with such good specs? Why can't an established entity do the same? An establish company has most of their R and D paid. Initially pricing only came down due to RED. In the past, you'd be paying a quarter of a million for top specs. RED upset the food chain.

You'd think after the dslr revolution, Canon would have wanted to secure the market. They could have offered a better spec DSLR for $4500, and people would have bought - such as 422, 8 or 10 bit, better compression, real 1080p, etc. Instead they off not so much. They did develop the C300 but for $16000. I think mass appeal can be more profitable in the long term than making these niche markets. Sell more batteries, lenses, etc. You don't want the competition to gain market share either. Once you lose a customer then it could be years to gain them back. Or you may never get them back.
Just ranting, and don't want to debate.

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Posted

[quote name='FilmMan' timestamp='1353609623' post='22130']
Why can a new camera as the BMC offer a $3K camera with such good specs?
[/quote]

Because they choose to comprimise in other areas.... your good specs (and mine, incidentally) are another man's "why bother with such a smaller sensor?". Your "great, it takes SSDs" are another man's "damn, SD cards are so much cheaper, lighter and i have 10 already".

Under $10k, you will comprmise, for now at least.

The 1D-C is a very strange and unique entity, I personally think it [b]is[/b] value for money... a 1D-X and a 4k cinema camera in a tiny package with cheap media/batteries that can go anywhere.

I can understand people getting frustrated that it is similar tech to the 1D-X and thinking it should be priced likewise.... But business does not work like that. I've been paying 200% more for 10% extra power for decades with high end computers and the like... Nothing changes there.... cutting edge tech costs (hardware or software). Pro features cost. Niche features costs.

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Posted

screen, the cost to manufacture the 1DC will probably be around the price of a 1DX to manufacture if not the same.

point with BMC - they were not a camera company till now. Canon has been a camera company for years. BMC is able to offer quite a bit for the first go around. Their software, worth a $1000 is included too. Yes, the sensor is small, but hey, its their first crack.

Canon started the DSLR revolution. They decided to go their own business path and that is their choice. They have lost market share in doing so. They may gain abit in some areas, but alot of new competition is coming. So who knows if it will have been worth it. When you have the lead, you should try to keep it especially in today's economic climate. Canon is going in unknown territory with their high end cameras. Let' say they could have sold an extra 40000 DSLR's with better specs. Don't you think that would trump a higher end niche market? Maybe? Now you have competition taking away their market share. Win perhaps in one area, however lose in the other. Why take the risk?

Computing pricing? Pretty darn competitive and good pricing now. Cheers.

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Posted

are there really 40,000 indie shooters who need 4K and have $6k in their pocket? The indie market really is not huge.

I just think Canon should get a little more credit for being brave enough to be first out with a 4K DSLR. First out with a APS-H 4K cinema camera.... 1st out with a 4K system that can be setup to run all day for under $15k. They also have, by far, the smallest 4K system, the easiest to edit 4K system with broadcast ready codec and arguably the best low light 4K system on the market.

If you forget about the 1D-X for a minute, can you really argue that the 1D-C is overpriced? It's a minor miracle.

horses for courses, and sometimes the jockey is expensive... Just to get the horse to run 1% faster.

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Posted

BMC what is the number...10000? How many waiting in the wings? How many GH2 people? How many 5D2/5D3 holders? How many Red holders? You'd be surprised how many would jump on the bandwagon...And so on.

I'm not arguing about the 1DC - it is an incredible camera. There are pricing risks going forward. Alot of competition will be entering the scene. How about the "company" which is working on their 4K "dslr type" and may show it at NAB 2013? Has competition entered in the 5D3 space? Yep.

Pricing will change as more 4K competition arrive. Canon won't be the only fish in the sea. Cheers.

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Posted

DSLRs are not a niche. It is the mass market sales Canon should be more worried about. Since they chose to focus purely on photographers rather than videographers with their DSLRs and try to move the videographers up several price brackets, their bread & butter business holds very little appeal to me and many others.

The film industry is changing, there's a lot of shooters out there working as freelance owner operators or as a small production team, and they're doing a good job and taking away business from established pros. The market for DSLR video is growing.

You can't forget about the 1D X for even a minute. It is essential to the point I'm trying to make about the 1D C. You say the 1D C is produced in small volumes for a niche - hang on - all the major components (and most of the minor ones too, indeed 95% of the hardware) is mass produced in 1D X+ sized quantities. The 1D X is produced in huge quantities in comparison to any indie filmmaking tool. Canon are addicted to 'added value', 'segmenting the market' and other bullshit business strategies from a text book and they have severely taking their eye off the product itself... In my opinion.

What I recommend is to get the 1D C on a finance deal and shoot 4K stock footage. A lot of demand for it. The camera will pay for itself.

Which is just as well.

Remember, my perspective is of an artist not a businessman. I want these tools to change the world and to enable masses of creativity. I am not interested in the mechanics and the process of a quick turnaround for a client. The C300 is perfect for that, but it doesn't interest me. Image quality does. Which is why I am no longer a Canon DSLR shooter when it comes to my cinema work.

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Posted

[quote name='FilmMan' timestamp='1353617686' post='22139']
BMC what is the number...10000? How many waiting in the wings? How many GH2 people? How many 5D2/5D3 holders? How many Red holders? You'd be surprised how many would jump on the bandwagon...And so on.

I'm not arguing about the 1DC - it is an incredible camera. There are pricing risks going forward. Alot of competition will be entering the scene. How about the "company" which is working on their 4K "dslr type" and may show it at NAB 2013? Has competition entered in the 5D3 space? Yep.

Pricing will change as more 4K competition arrive. Canon won't be the only fish in the sea. Cheers.
[/quote]

DSLRs sell in quantities of millions. I find it hard to believe that only 20,000 of those millions are interested in the video mode.

The market for DSLR video has a lot of different sub-sections - some point & shoot, some casual hobbyists, some students, some pros, some artists, some tourists, some... You get the idea.

But as a whole, the need for Canon to keep pushing the feature-set and image quality at consumer price points is huge. So why haven't they done so? Because somebody at the top level (or somebody possibly poorly advised) is more interested in making huge margins on Cinema EOS products in the broadcast industry, which is a tiny niche compared to the consumer DSLR market, and somehow they think it is OK to halt any progress in the large market for the sake of concentrating on the Hollywood niche. It is not just DSLR video people that Canon aren't providing enough progress for - think of the poor photographers who have not seen a step forward in image quality from their APS-C sensors since the 7D 3 years ago!

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anyone who thinks BM will follow up with such a cheap offer on their next camera will be sorely let down. I recon the BMCC pricing could make BM really struggle in the future when people complain about the price of their update that will actually need to make them money. I seriously doubt BM are earning enough profit from sales of their camera to make it economically viable. the sums don't add up. and their manufacturing facilities won't be able to cope with the demand. they'll have to go to china and then get ripped off due to not having the size or power to maintain security by running the plant themselves 100%. just takes 1 clever chinese floor manager to rip them off and ruin them. without the might that Sony and Canon have they wouldnt be able to stop a copycat product.

BMCC inaccurate pricing has created a false sense of value for money which will affect the profits and technological output of all other companies. a canon 1DC will bring in a lot more paid work than the BMCC will. the price structure reflects this

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Posted

Well Rich there's two sides to this, and maybe you are right.

One possibility is that Blackmagic want to grab a share of the digital cinema market. Best way to do this is the pricing. Even though BMCC is really as good as a $15,000 camera, had they priced to match Canon they would have lost. At $3000, they are positioned to grab a share. It could be that the benefits of establishing themselves, giving themselves a foothold in the market were larger than the money they'd lose on the cameras.

The other possibility is that electronics are getting cheap to produce, and Blackmagic already make a profit on their Hyper Deck Shuttle which is extremely keenly priced - that tells you that the image processing hardware to encode an uncompressed signal to ProRes is now affordable to produce in 2012. They may be aiming for the mass market in great quantities. If that is the case, a slim margin on the camera doesn't matter so much.

I honestly would take the view that you can build this camera for $3000 and make a profit and I'd say the mark up on the other digital cinema cameras is insane.

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