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Andrew Reid

Canon EOS-M mirrorless unveiled - Return of the EF-M system

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[img]http://www.eoshd.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/canon-EOS-m-2012.jpg[/img]

Canon last had an EF-M camera and lenses in 1991 (inset, LCD screen pic)

The Canon EOS M mirrorless camera with new EF-M mount and lenses is due to be officially announced on Monday. The EOS M seems to be closest to the Sony NEX C3. The lack of physical controls hint that it is too basic to compete with the NEX 5N or NEX 7.

Because it is designed to work with Canon's new STM AF lenses which use phase detect AF on the sensor I am 100% certain the EOS M will have the same 18MP APS-C CMOS as the T4i / 650D. Using the G1X sensor would make it incompatible with the very EOS-M lenses it is pictured with at launch. The 18-55mm EF-M STM and 22mm F2 EF-M STM.

Will the new mount be the basis of a C100 affordable digital cinema camera, following the strategy of Panasonic and Sony?

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
if they make something like a C100 it'll be sweet but I dont think it will ever have 10-bit, and I doubt if it'll have C-log or even 60p. Therefore I wonder what's its advantage over FS100, the look of Canon color? To me if someone makes a full-frame camcorder that has nice resolution and the ability to adapt a wide range of lenses will be a hit. Or a affordable fullframe mirrorless like Leica M will be nice.

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[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1342920630' post='14294']
Will the new mount be the basis of a C100 affordable digital cinema camera, following the strategy of Panasonic and Sony?
[/quote]

That's a joke right? I mean this IS Canon we're talking about. I'll be surprised if they even fix the moire issues that are apparently still there on the t4i.

But hey at least they got the sensor size right, more than I can say about Nikon. But don't get me started about the One system, that has probably been the biggest blown opportunity in a long time, that camera could have been insanely great given the speed of its sensor but they either completely blew it or more likely the One team is purposely being deprived of oxygen Saturn-style (to use a car analogy) by the rest of the company. So many of us are desperately waiting for something to come along that is a game-changer - the technology is there - but I just don't think the established camera companies have the least interest in thinking outside the box.

You're also dead on about smartphones; the tiny, cheap, slow lens, pocket-sized camera's days are definitely numbered. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if a smartphone maker were to come out with the next breakthrough camera (you know digicams are stagnating when Nokia (!) rolls out one of the most interesting products of the year). Smartphones have the advantage of being more like a "real" computer and specific apps can be written for them.

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I did'nt know Nikon has a FF dSLR back in the 1970s :lol:
The 50mm E series lens from Nikon were cheap and probably doesnt have a motor. Vintage lens are usually smaller than modern lens for good reasons they are not jam packed with motors, mirrors, etc. While I'm at it Nikon has been using the same 12mp sensor on their FF cameras since 2007 and only did something about it in 2012.

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[size=3][b][color=#333333][font=Helvetica, Arial, FreeSans, sans-serif]"Therefore EOSHD looks beyond the hype and asks – what is the point?"[/font][/color][/b]
[font=Helvetica, Arial, FreeSans, sans-serif][color=#333333]The point is good IQ and portability. The sensor is much larger the RX100 and can be seen by many customers as better deal. [/color][/font][color=#333333][font=Helvetica, Arial, FreeSans, sans-serif] For guys like my father, its one of the options along with the NEX line.[/font][/color][/size]

[color=#333333][font=Helvetica, Arial, FreeSans, sans-serif]For me I own the Nikon D3200 until D600 will be released. Bigger sensor = better IQ. I am still impress from my nikon D700 images[/font][/color] [size=3][color=#333333][font=Helvetica, Arial, FreeSans, sans-serif]and I sold it only because of whight and lack of video. Comparing the tonal/colour of my D700 VS D3200 the D700 eat the D3200[/font][/color] for breakfast in any regards. According to DXO at ISO 100 the D3200 is better camera, its far from the true.

Canon? No good from them they keep the video to one that are ready to put 15K$. They provide good IQ if you ready to buy FF camera. Their APS-C is history. Are canon future will be as Nokia?[/size]

[size=3]RX100 same as nikon 1 can not replace a DSLR for video. not the lenses, not the DOF not the video resolution as in the D3200. Nikon will give soon a very good video in the D600. They mention the word video every secound line in their website so the moving to that direction for consumers while canon will provide it to Pros.[/size]

[size=3]Thanks for the great insights :)[/size]

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Here are probably the final specs : http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/07/canon-eos-m-specs/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+canonrumors%2Frss+%28Canon+Rumors%29&utm_content=FaceBook.
Nothing to see for a serious or enthusiast videographer here... Same sensor as always, same codec as always, same issues as always ( probably moire and jello ), no 1080p 50 as always, Canon's same goodies... Nothing improved over the EOS DSLR in video mode.
Seems like Canon is following now, let's wait for Panasonic and Sony to blow our mind with their next models.
I'm pretty sure the GH3 will be THE real indie cinema camera...

So disapointed about Canon...

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It is a work in progress but Canon got the basics spot on.
It is better to start with the cheaper model and grow from there.
APS-C is obvious choice, bundling with a pancake rather than a dark zoom for instant gratification.
No AVDHD movie wrapping, YES!!!
Standard hot shoe mount ( unlike Sony ), even the main switch photo/video, perfect.
Lert's just hope the video quality is adequate and more models will be added soon.

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[quote name='tttulio' timestamp='1342988894' post='14316']
It is a work in progress but Canon got the basics spot on.
It is better to start with the cheaper model and grow from there.
APS-C is obvious choice, bundling with a pancake rather than a dark zoom for instant gratification.
No AVDHD movie wrapping, YES!!!
Standard hot shoe mount ( unlike Sony ), even the main switch photo/video, perfect.
Lert's just hope the video quality is adequate and more models will be added soon.
[/quote]

Yes on the photographic point of view, it feels like a perfect tiny DSLR, but video mode has none improvement !

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andrew, the sony rx100 is not a large sensor compact. its sensor is only about 30% bigger than an s100 sensor. and it does not in any way deliver dslr like quality. dr, colors, sharpness, dof are completely in small sensor territory. even at base iso it looks soft. your test video looks exactly like what it is, an enthusiast point and shoot. i can see nothing game changing about it. it is a j1 with a fixed zoom lens and a sony badge. any m43 sensor beats this in every image parameter except high iso noise.

also your wish for a compact camera with dslr image quality will not come true. you should know that this is impossible.

concerning your rant about the eos-m, what do you want canon to do? make you a gh3? will not happen. they are not willing to give up their slr legacy and why should they? there is a good reason to not abandon the prism and the mirror for photography. there is nothing more immediate than looking at your scene or subject just through some glass and not to look at a video representation of it, no matter how high resolved it might be. you will not be looking at the thing itself but at a representation of it. but this representation you should first create in your head, then make an image out of it by capturing it. in the prism box there is no delay, no ghosting, no color shift, no shutter effect, it is just light through an optical system. an unbeatable advantage.

i hope that the mirrorless systems stay for a long time what they are now, consumer products. and i hope that for a long time professional photographic products will have a prism and a mirror to divert the light from the lens to my eye.

in addition it would be unfair to deny canon the right to also make consumer products like panasonic, olympus and sony. canon is in no obligation to you or anyone to give you a 1DX in a s100 body for 50 dollars. they would be out of business very soon and you couldn´t even complain about them any more. and since the nex system is so successful why shouldn´t canon make one too, they even already have lenses for it unlike sony.

i think the eos-m system is promising. it will never be as pocketable as the rx100 because its sensor is aps-c. you can not seriously hold this against it if you want dslr image quality. nex with 18-55 is not a small camera either.

by the way, in your photo the canon pancake looks smaller than the nikon e 50. and the nikon e series is notorious for softness and low resolution. i would never buy one again.

canons aps-c sensor they used in the 7d and downwards is very good in photographic terms. i think it is pretty amazing that with the 600d you can produce the same quality for half your money. that is actually quite a democratic move.

most of the cameras you review are first and foremost photographic equipment. if you want to shoot high quality video get a dedicated video camera. small or large sensor. they exist. you own some obviously. and don´t tell me now: but the gh2! resolution doesn´t make over sharpened, over saturated and low dr go away.

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[quote name='nickname' timestamp='1343003455' post='14325']
andrew, the sony rx100 is not a large sensor compact. its sensor is only about 30% bigger than an s100 sensor. and it does not in any way deliver dslr like quality. dr, colors, sharpness, dof are completely in small sensor territory. even at base iso it looks soft.[/quote]

Wrong!

Where the hell are you getting the 30% thing from?

Also please do name a compact with a bigger sensor... I'll give you all night to think about it. Bye!

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[quote name='Simco123' timestamp='1342946037' post='14300']
The 50mm E series lens from Nikon were cheap and probably doesnt have a motor. Vintage lens are usually smaller than modern lens for good reasons they are not jam packed with motors, mirrors, etc. While I'm at it Nikon has been using the same 12mp sensor on their FF cameras since 2007 and only did something about it in 2012.
[/quote]

No. Nikon had new APS-C sensors in midst of 2010 already, used in D7000 and D3100.

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I don't really see a problem with them using the same sensor again (if indeed they are). Look at a still RAW out of a 7D and tell me what's so wrong or dated about it.
However, it does bother me that they line-skip, and that they keep using the same codec when they have a better one in the 5D already.
It is understandable though that they don't want their lower end cameras to be the first ones to deliver better specs, they wouldn't release a 650D that's way better than the 7D, and if they have any big improvements coming, I'd say they'll arrive with a 7D replacement, or maybe the rumored new full frame camera.

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[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1343003580' post='14326']
Wrong!

Where the hell are you getting the 30% thing from?

Also please do name a compact with a bigger sensor... I'll give you all night to think about it. Bye!
[/quote]

good morning!

well ok, 30% was an exaggeration, sorry about that. it has double the sensor diagonal. but still it sits right in the middle between the g12 for example and m43, so i think it´s misleading to call it large sensor. it will not have large sensor (i.e. aps-c, m43) image characteristics in many respects.

compact with a large sensor? canon g1x.

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Is the G1X pocketable like the S100? Last time I checked, it wasn't.

EOS M could have been an enthusiast's wet dream, instead it is a dumbed down T4i for your mum!

She'd be far better off with an RX100 anyway.

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[quote name='Bruno' timestamp='1343044169' post='14353']
I don't really see a problem with them using the same sensor again (if indeed they are). Look at a still RAW out of a 7D and tell me what's so wrong or dated about it.
However, it does bother me that they line-skip, and that they keep using the same codec when they have a better one in the 5D already.
It is understandable though that they don't want their lower end cameras to be the first ones to deliver better specs, they wouldn't release a 650D that's way better than the 7D, and if they have any big improvements coming, I'd say they'll arrive with a 7D replacement, or maybe the rumored new full frame camera.
[/quote]

Of course there's nothing 'wrong' with the 7D's sensor in raw stills. This is Canon after all. It is the lack of progress and creativity that concerns me. The 7D's sensor was great when it came out 3 years ago. Way above any competition. Now APS-C rivals have nearly all caught up, and even the smaller Sony CMOS in the OM-D E-M5 too... At ISO 6400 even. Nikon D3200, OM-D, Fuji X Pro 1 and NEX 7 all are newer technology, and mostly better image quality be it in resolution terms of low light terms.

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[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1343049912' post='14357']
Is the G1X pocketable like the S100? Last time I checked, it wasn't.

EOS M could have been an enthusiast's wet dream, instead it is a dumbed down T4i for your mum!

She'd be far better off with an RX100 anyway.
[/quote]


but it´s not far from the rx100 last time i checked.

i´m more disappointed with the nikon 1 system than the canon eos-m and i am a nikonian. i think eos-m is a step in the right direction combining portability and image quality. i don´t think that the 1 inch sensors will cut it in the end. i´m not after a 16mm image, i´d like s35mm if possible.

i´m quite sure they will come up with an enthusiasts body as well. they would be crazy not to.

but in the end you´re right, mirrorless aps-c is enthusiasts territory. my traveling aunt loves her bridge camera. she couldn´t see the quality difference anyway.

but keep my mum out of this!

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