Nikon Z8 or Canon R5C to combine stills and video

[kayasaman]

Hi everyone,

 

a while back I was looking into the Canon C70 and C80 as I wanted to add a 3rd dedicated video camera to my lineup of Pentax K1 II and Nikon D500 stills cameras.

 

Currently circumstances have changed as I realized that on a multi day hike it's impractical to have too much equipment and now I am looking at a single system to combine and consolidate  my stills photography needs with video where I can additionally make simple nature/wildlife documentaries as well as vlogging.

 

Has anyone got any experience with the Nikon Z8 or Canon R5C? At the beginning I was leaning towards the Nikon as it is a powerhouse but the negatives for me is that there is no fully articulating screen and I have heard reports that like the R5, the Z8 can potentially overheat while recording video.

Does the Z8 even feature videos scopes like the R5c?

I'm not sure how the R5C compares to the AF of the Nikon in stills mode or even video mode, though reports state that the R5 has better video AF then the R5C version. How significant would that be when videoing wildlife for example or tracking people or vehicles?

 

I do like the Canon lens lineup and in particular the 200-800mm lens idea as I find I can never have enough focal length as my Nikon 200-500mm f5.6 definitely comes up quite short on the APS-C sensor in the D500. Though I'm totally confused what the best options for me would be in the mid range... 28 or 24 - 105mm , 28 or 24 - 70mm , 70 - 200mm ; then f2.8 or f4 version in all cases?

 

These videos were really helpful to me but I think in both cases use the 100-500mm lens:

 

 

[Andrew Reid]

I considered the same dilemma myself a few months ago and it boiled down to this:

My need for pro-video features = less, I am a purist when it comes to shooting moving images - no peaking, no zebra, no elaborate extras, no clutter on screen, I have very basic audio needs, far more need for a fast operating nimble camera that can switch quickly between the highest possible video specs and nicest possible ergonomics for stills, so for me the EOS R5 was a better deal than R5C, far less money used, it behaves in a more nimble way for smaller scale creative endeavour and filmmaking, with better AF and is a superior stills camera, the overheating aspect is much improved vs the launch, and the hardware was never really limited very much by raw thermals anyway - it was all silly firmware trickery.

So I recently went R5, but the mount just doesn't do it for me.

With the Nikon Z8 I can use many more adapters, many more of my existing lenses, far more comes off my shelf and is happy on the Z8, especially for stills.

So it really boils down to lenses and whether you'd be happy with a normal R5, before considering the Z8 as a step up from that.

[eatstoomuchjam]

46 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

With the Nikon Z8 I can use many more adapters, many more of my existing lenses, far more comes off my shelf and is happy on the Z8, especially for stills.

Are they Sony lenses?  Or are you including things like the autofocus adapter for M mount?  Which other lenses can be adapted to Z mount that can't be adapted to R?

[BTM_Pix]

2 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Which other lenses can be adapted to Z mount that can't be adapted to R?

Nikon F with full as native like electronic control is the big one for me.

FujiFilm X mount is also available now with full electronic control. Limited to APS-C by the nature of the lenses of course.

Dumb mount MFT is also available. Again, limited image coverage but OK up to APS-C as most of the MFT lenses you'd want to use offer that wider coverage.

In theory, there is enough space for someone to do a Hasselblad XCD adapter but no one has actually done it as far as i'm aware.

There are a couple of other interesting ones between the Z and the RF as well, most notably Canon's own EF-M and of course the RF mount itself !

[kayasaman]

Thanks for the input!

 

I don't think I'd be able to use any of my lenses as outside of the 200-500 f5.6 which is a little short and the Sigma 105mm macro (which sadly isn't weather sealed) the other lenses I have for Nikon are DX APS-C based.

The Pentax K-Mount lenses wouldn't work either on the Z8 and there is no articulating screen which is really bad news. The Z6 III has that but a much lower pixel count too and I think it might struggle for landscape and even wildlife as even at 600mm I think the focal length is way too short.

At 750mm equivalent FoV on my D500 I'm constantly cropping a *lot*.

I think the only thing I would be able to use with the Z8 would be my Solmeta GPS receiver which is great for Geo-tagging stills or even video, though I have a Garmin GPSMAP 67i that can be used with TelemetryOverlay.

 

I'm thinking the RF 200-800mm lens is attractive especially with a 1.4x and 2x TC. Sure things will get a little soft but can be corrected in post with sharpening.

 

Just been working on going over my drone footage from Scotland and color grading it properly this time. I think the R5C has both CLog2 and CLog3 which would definitely be of interest, I'm using Davinci Resolve Studio for editing:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VewQSP0gCb2MICn8ZJEvg9QnNfxJm325/view?usp=drive_link

 

If I went Nikon I'd probably go for the 14-24mm f2.8, 24-120mm f/4, the 100-400mm, and the 105mm macro (which has weather sealing)

 

Canon has a 100mm macro that has a 2:1 ratio, so all I'd need to do is get the proper XPro transmitter and I'll be able to use my Godox MF-12 macro flash system.

I'm also interested in a few Venus Lens Laowa specialty macro lenses like the 24mm 5x or the probe and even the 10x-50x microscopy lenses.

 

For multi day hikes I'd probably be looking at the L lenses: 15-35mm f2.8, something in the middle - either up to 70mm or 105mm f2.8 or f4 (no idea which is the better lens to go for), and then the 70-200 f2.8 or f4 with TC's to save weight, plus the macro mentioned above.

 

For stills the R5 and R5C seem to be the same but for video is where things become different. I wonder if the R5C II will feature improved video AF?

I'm also liking the Tascam XLR adapter with 48V phantom power, though I'm thinking of using an external video recorder instead so I would need Timecode sync too which the R5C has the capability.

 

Maybe I should just wait for the R5C II though I have no idea of the release date and since I'm not in a rush might be worth it?

 

It's really a bang your head against the wall situation..... lol

[eatstoomuchjam]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

Nikon F with full as native like electronic control is the big one for me.

 

Ooh, good point - that one is really big.  I always forget that there are millions of electronic F mount lenses in the world since I've never had a camera that could use one.  😅

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

FujiFilm X mount is also available now with full electronic control. Limited to APS-C by the nature of the lenses of course

Well, that's just plain cool and probably makes the Z mount Komodo-X a much more compelling option!

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

Dumb mount MFT is also available. Again, limited image coverage but OK up to APS-C as most of the MFT lenses you'd want to use offer that wider coverage.

If there are also any Z mount cameras with APS-C, this can be an interesting option for a speed booster.  It's the combination that I tend to use on my E2-S6G - MFT mount with 0.64x speed booster and FF lenses.

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

There are a couple of other interesting ones between the Z and the RF as well, most notably Canon's own EF-M and of course the RF mount itself !

I suspect that either of them would result in somebody getting sued into oblivion, though!  😅

[Andrew Reid]

18 hours ago, kayasaman said:

At 750mm equivalent FoV on my D500 I'm constantly cropping a *lot*.

I am thinking full frame sensor is pretty bad for telephoto work at such long focal lengths.

You are carrying much heavier glass and cropping into the sensor, aka not making the most of full frame - so you'd be far better off with a Micro Four Thirds camera for that.

I am confused with your need for a fully articulating selfie screen at 750mm too 🙂

18 hours ago, kayasaman said:

For stills the R5 and R5C seem to be the same but for video is where things become different. I wonder if the R5C II will feature improved video AF?

The R5C has worse AF for video.

What about R5 II? Might be worth a look.

I'd be tempted to go original R5 and a different camera for your telephoto shots, with a high-res crop sensor.

 

[Django]

R5C got some solid updates including AF. I find it actually way superior to Nikon Z8/Z9. Smoother, more reliable tracking. Less pulsing/hunting. Nikon AF can sometimes trip or get confused but Z lenses do offer minimal breathing which is nice.

The main catch with R5C is no IBIS and average battery life. If you can live with those two cons it's a better hybrid in my opinion. Grading N-log is also more time consuming than C-log.

[eatstoomuchjam]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

You are carrying much heavier glass and cropping into the sensor, aka not making the most of full frame - so you'd be far better off with a Micro Four Thirds camera for that.

That all depends - if you have a 61 megapixel FF sensor, the only real benefit to it is the ability to crop in.  Much heavier glass is also subjective - I kind of love the Canon RF 800mm f/11.  It's obviously very limiting to have a fixed f/11 aperture, but the lens is otherwise a decent performer and not that different from using a 400mm lens at f/5.6 on M43.

I would say, though, that stabilization is huge at such long focal lengths - and that might be a reason to consider a Panasonic body and Panasonic lens since their hybrid IS is by far the best.  I don't have much problem getting sharp photos on the R5 with the 800/11 since whatever mix of IS is used works pretty well - but I also only use it in fairly bright areas and I don't mind bumping up the ISO a little bit.

[kayasaman]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

I am thinking full frame sensor is pretty bad for telephoto work at such long focal lengths.

You are carrying much heavier glass and cropping into the sensor, aka not making the most of full frame - so you'd be far better off with a Micro Four Thirds camera for that.

I am confused with your need for a fully articulating selfie screen at 750mm too 🙂

The R5C has worse AF for video.

What about R5 II? Might be worth a look.

I'd be tempted to go original R5 and a different camera for your telephoto shots, with a high-res crop sensor.

 

 

Hi, sorry for the confusion. 

 

I plan to use this system in place of my Pentax K1 II and Nikon D500. I am slowly planning traveling the world in a 4x4 and doing Overlanding/travel videos as well as natural world/nature documentaries.

Locally I find the APSC combination with the 500mm lens is slightly short because there is no large fauna where I am, only small birds like the Eurasian Robin, Tits, and Finches.

 

To start with I do not plan on using the articulating screen at 750mm lol 🙂

I actually would need to use it with something like a 50mm f1.2 around a campfire or in the car or just generally vlogging

My idea is to use these lenses while on a multi day hike, again the articulating screen would come in handy when filming myself and another person, obviously not restricted to:

 

* 15-35mm f2.8

* One of 24-70 f2.8, 28-105mm f2.8, 24-105 f4

* One of the 70-200 f2.8 or f4

* 100mm macro

 

The above would let me cover all basis when I don't know the area or what to expect and still be light enough to not kill me after a 5 hour hike.

 

I am also interested in the 200-800 for wildlife especially using the TC's for far away or small subjects but it would be used on shorter walks where the weight won't be such an issue.

 

 

Last night I even checked the NiSi Aureus range of lenses at T1.5 which are interesting but if I can get by with the Canon RF lenses mentioned above then there would be no need for them.

 

I definitely would need to be shooting CLog or other color gradable format for video. Not sure if the R5II has that?

The fan is much welcome too as if I'm outside and it's say 45 degC I don't want the camera overheating if leaving the camera running (using a battery pack of course as I think you get 30mins out of the R5C internal battery)

 

 

To summarize basically I'm trying to build an all in one setup that will cover all my basis and be a lot less to take along then say 3 different systems.

[kayasaman]

1 hour ago, Django said:

R5C got some solid updates including AF. I find it actually way superior to Nikon Z8/Z9. Smoother, more reliable tracking. Less pulsing/hunting. Nikon AF can sometimes trip or get confused but Z lenses do offer minimal breathing which is nice.

The main catch with R5C is no IBIS and average battery life. If you can live with those two cons it's a better hybrid in my opinion. Grading N-log is also more time consuming than C-log.

 

I think IBIS can be overcome with a gimbal like the RS4 Pro from DJI. As for the battery life, one of the videos above suggested you could get around 5 days using a battery pack from Amazon.

 

About grading, I just started to learn the different methods for my drone footage taken last year. My first attempts were pretty bad using first Shotcut then later Davinci Resolve Studio.

Can't remember if I popped this up already - apologies as my head is all over the place right now!! but it definitely is better balanced and has no weird artifacts like Magenta or Cyan blobs in the sky or that crazy over saturated blue hue that showed up in the clouds due to the white balance being off in camera:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VewQSP0gCb2MICn8ZJEvg9QnNfxJm325/view?usp=drive_link

 

- it was my first time using the drone so I was just getting used to it. 

 

 

[kayasaman]

27 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

That all depends - if you have a 61 megapixel FF sensor, the only real benefit to it is the ability to crop in.  Much heavier glass is also subjective - I kind of love the Canon RF 800mm f/11.  It's obviously very limiting to have a fixed f/11 aperture, but the lens is otherwise a decent performer and not that different from using a 400mm lens at f/5.6 on M43.

I would say, though, that stabilization is huge at such long focal lengths - and that might be a reason to consider a Panasonic body and Panasonic lens since their hybrid IS is by far the best.  I don't have much problem getting sharp photos on the R5 with the 800/11 since whatever mix of IS is used works pretty well - but I also only use it in fairly bright areas and I don't mind bumping up the ISO a little bit.

 

This is an example of how far away a 500mm is for my on the D500:

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/TUS5QRjQzKWX5btr6

 

Would have loved to get larger shots of the Terns on the raft or the Green Speckled Woodpecker. All were shot handheld. I think the 200-800mm with a 2x TC would have been a better choice there but maybe on a tripod with gimbal head?

[eatstoomuchjam]

3 minutes ago, kayasaman said:

This is an example of how far away a 500mm is for my on the D500:

 

What is your planned presentation/use for these photos?  One of the not-so-secret secrets of wildlife photography is that the photos are rarely presented as-framed in camera.  The D500 has 20 megapixels which gives you a bit of room to crop in if your presentation is going to be social media or embedded in a 4k video.

The Z8 and R5C are both 45 megapixel sensors - so you'll be able to crop in even more than on the D500.  An 800mm lens won't be meaningfully different in FOV on FF than your 500mm was on APS-C, though.  You mention the built-in TC on the 200-800, but there's nothing stopping you from going out and getting a 1.4x TC for the lens that you have now...  or a 2x, but on modern very high resolution sensors, I've never seen a 2x TC that looked better than just cropping.

If you don't want to crop or if you want to shoot 4K for presentation at 4K, you really should be looking at APS-C or M43 cameras.  Bonus, you can also still use a TC.

[kayasaman]

Just now, eatstoomuchjam said:

What is your planned presentation/use for these photos?  One of the not-so-secret secrets of wildlife photography is that the photos are rarely presented as-framed in camera.  The D500 has 20 megapixels which gives you a bit of room to crop in if your presentation is going to be social media or embedded in a 4k video.

The Z8 and R5C are both 45 megapixel sensors - so you'll be able to crop in even more than on the D500.  An 800mm lens won't be meaningfully different in FOV on FF than your 500mm was on APS-C, though.  You mention the built-in TC on the 200-800, but there's nothing stopping you from going out and getting a 1.4x TC for the lens that you have now...  or a 2x, but on modern very high resolution sensors, I've never seen a 2x TC that looked better than just cropping.

If you don't want to crop or if you want to shoot 4K for presentation at 4K, you really should be looking at APS-C or M43 cameras.  Bonus, you can also still use a TC.

 

It's a bit more complicated then just getting the 1.4x TC for my D500. 

 

Like I wrote above, I want to get a new camera system to consolidate my current camera systems and add video. So it needs to cover Landscape, Nightscapes, Astrophotography (lightly as I'll most likely get a Moravian Instruments actively cooled monocam for dedicated astro work), Wildlife/Action, and Macro.

I'm slowly starting to plan traveling around the world, so I'm looking at all kinds of things that I will need and to make my life easier. I don't want to have to take 3 different camera systems with me so I'm looking for an all in one that will combine stills and video.

Right now there's a lot of research even on SUV or Truck and roof top tent vs camper trailer, GPS systems, 2-way radios etc....

 

I know MFT would be lighter and get more reach, I have looked at the Lumix GH6 but at the sacrifice of low light capability which does not work for me. I bought the Pentax K1 II specifically for it's AstroTracer functionality which got me taking images of nebula and galaxies.

 

More examples: 

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/gSPeWz5gh9LK8qES6 - the Red Kite towards the bottom was an amazing catch! Cropped of course - all using the Nikon D500

https://photos.app.goo.gl/LkTeMnrKqxkoowAi7 - Pentax K1 II nightscapes

The Andromeda Galaxy: https://photos.app.goo.gl/hBhgyAQgPJuAqHBRA

 

This was a precursor, a trip up to Scotland last year - it's a 3 part playlist: 

 

 

 

 

[MrSMW]

49 minutes ago, kayasaman said:

To summarize basically I'm trying to build an all in one setup that will cover all my basis and be a lot less to take along then say 3 different systems

Makes perfect sense, especially when traveling 

[eatstoomuchjam]

38 minutes ago, kayasaman said:

'm slowly starting to plan traveling around the world, so I'm looking at all kinds of things that I will need and to make my life easier. I don't want to have to take 3 different camera systems with me so I'm looking for an all in one that will combine stills and video.

Right.  These days, you can pick one of Sony, Canon, Nikon, and Panasonic (and arguably, Fuji) and have everything you need.  Beyond that, you're really just micro-optimizing in ways that are less meaningful than you might think.  Most of them just take turns buying the same Sony sensors anyway.

Each has some things that they do better than the others - and if you change your mind later about the things that are important, you could certainly regret it.  But at some point, obsession over small differences between systems will lead to making a YouTube channel with a theme song about "All I want is the perfect camera, all I want is the perfect ca-me-ra..."
(FWIW, Kasey is borderline convinced for the time being that his R5 II is the closest thing to a perfect camera and he also likes taking photo/videos of birds/squirrels in his local area).
Am I actually suggesting that someone watch Camera Conspiracies for actual information about buying cameras for their use case?  I can't believe I'm saying this, but...  maybe I am.

 

[kayasaman]

59 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Right.  These days, you can pick one of Sony, Canon, Nikon, and Panasonic (and arguably, Fuji) and have everything you need.  Beyond that, you're really just micro-optimizing in ways that are less meaningful than you might think.  Most of them just take turns buying the same Sony sensors anyway.

Each has some things that they do better than the others - and if you change your mind later about the things that are important, you could certainly regret it.  But at some point, obsession over small differences between systems will lead to making a YouTube channel with a theme song about "All I want is the perfect camera, all I want is the perfect ca-me-ra..."
(FWIW, Kasey is borderline convinced for the time being that his R5 II is the closest thing to a perfect camera and he also likes taking photo/videos of birds/squirrels in his local area).
Am I actually suggesting that someone watch Camera Conspiracies for actual information about buying cameras for their use case?  I can't believe I'm saying this, but...  maybe I am.

 

Haha...

 

maybe things are a little different for me as I have both ADHD and ASD so my brain sees details rather then summaries.

Lot's of Macro photographers tend to be on the Autism Spectrum for this reason.

Probably why so many people got confused with what I'm trying to achieve, as sadly communication is different too as there are subtleties.

 

I'm kind of leaning towards the R5C at this point but a little lost over the lens lineup. I wrote above what my thoughts are as I want to cover my bases and not leave anything out since at this point I don't have any experience as I've never done anything like this before. So what focal lengths will I need? Time will tell basically.....

 

Sure for stills currently based on what is available where I live; I use the 15-30mm Pentax and 150mm Irix, the 200-500 f5.6 Nikkor, and Sigma 105mm - though prior to the 15-30mm I used the Samyang 24mm F1.4 which got crazy internal reflections at brilliant points of light.

 

Just checking the Canon website I can see a CN-18-80mm and 70-200mm which probably would cover me on all bases but sadly these are Super 35mm E-mount lenses, so not even full frame.

Something like the RF 24-240mm would be ideal as a one-stop-shop for a lens but I made that mistake with my Nikon already in the 18-300mm DX. It's awful and heavily compromised for my liking. Good for "snaps" though, great recon lens :-S

 

I guess I made my decision on camera body, now for the lenses....??