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Rokinon 10mm f2.8 or 12mm f2.0?


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I can't seem to decide between those 2 lenses...

I shoot a lot of weddings and I'm searching for an ultra wide to accompany my Sigma 18-35mm f1.8 and Rokinon / Samyang 85mm f1.4 on my Panasonic GH3 + G6.
I've went through 5 different copies of the Tokina 11-16mm f2.8, but it doesn't work well with my setup. Decentering, extreme soft sides, etc. Even though I use expensive adapters (Novoflex / Metabones / Speed Boosters), I couldn't get good results. So now I want to get it over with and buy a native MFT lens.

These are the 2 options I narrowed it down to. The Samyang / Rokinon 10mm f2.8 vs the 12mm f2.0.

Light gathering is important as often ceremonies take place in dark churches. I guess f2.8 is just fine though, but cutting it. 10mm is of course more wide but also have more of a 'wow' factor. 12mm is just plain wide, nothing special but gets the job done.

I can't really decide what's better so I'm asking your opinion. The price difference is no problem here so, what would you prefer? Which one is better?

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You have a speed booster, if you put the Sigma 18-35mm on it you get something close to 12mm, so I don't see the point of the 12mm f/2.0.

Also, the 10mm is a dslr design. They do sell it with m43 mount, but it's still the same lens, just with a 'built in' adapter. That does make it a nice tight fit, but wouldn't it be preferable to get a Canon/Nikon mount version and put it on your speed booster? Then you can use it as a 7.1mm f/2.0. Not sure about the optical qualities though, haven't used them myself.

edit: not sure if the 10mm will completely cover the GH3 sensor with a speed booster though, since it's an aps-c lens.

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I ordered the 12mm it should be here within a hour or so. I went with it over the 10 when a guy pointed out that with the 10mm the glass on the front sticks out like a dome and you can not add on a filter to that lens with the dome like that so that killed it for me i need to use a ND filter outside in bright light so i ordered the Cine 12mm version.

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I don't know how anyone can be shooting a wedding without a FF camera or at least a pro APS-C one.

 

If you make X amount of dollars shooting weddings why are you using such cheap cameras? Go FF with 5D and a couple of C100's, if not I would at least upgrade to a Sony A7s. No way in the world I could use an MFT camera and not being able to control lighting. MFT camera are simply poor in low light/high iso where it's needed for things like weddings. Don't get me wrong I've actually seen some professionally shot projects on a GH3 where the camera operator was a genius, but why even put myself through that headache when there are better tools?

 

 

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You can shoot weddings with m4/3 camera's without a problem, even candle lit ones. They are also much easier to maintain focus which is one of the biggest challenges when shooting with a full frame camera. I use a gh3 and a gh4 with a set of fast primes like the 12mm f2.0, 25mm f1.4,75mm f1.8 and for run and gun a 12-35 f2.8. All very small, light camera/lenses with a very good performance. For longer continuous recording I prefer to use videocamera's like a ax100. 

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I don't know how anyone can be shooting a wedding without a FF camera or at least a pro APS-C one.

 

If you make X amount of dollars shooting weddings why are you using such cheap cameras? Go FF with 5D and a couple of C100's, if not I would at least upgrade to a Sony A7s. No way in the world I could use an MFT camera and not being able to control lighting. MFT camera are simply poor in low light/high iso where it's needed for things like weddings. Don't get me wrong I've actually seen some professionally shot projects on a GH3 where the camera operator was a genius, but why even put myself through that headache when there are better tools?

 

Are you serious? A GH3 + Speedbooster + Sigma 18-35 f1.8 (f1.2 with SB) is not bad in low light at all. Sure, there might be better low light camera's, but this isn't bad at all. Also, I need the 50p 1080p for slow mo and I simply like the current look I'm getting. At the time I invested in these camera's, C100's couldn't even do 50p/60p at 1080...

Many people don't take these Panasonic 'toys' seriously but I guess that's actually a good thing. 

By the way I forgot to mention that I need this wide angle mainly for the 2nd camera, in this case the G6, to record a wide view of the ceremony.

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I don't think you need to prove m4/3 are not capable of shooting weddings, those who have used them and those that do weddings know what they are capable off. One thing to consider is that the 2 panasonic bodies and 4 lenses I mentioned are together the same price as a c100 body alone so cost is also a important factor. Ofcourse overall a c100 is a superior camera but it will not make you any more money, it will only cost you more.

Fact remains that having wide and fast lenses is a problem with m4/3, you can work with a speedbooster but you will loose the fast and accurate autofocussing on native m4/3 lenses. I find the 12mm f2.0 just wide enough for my use but I would have preferred a bit wider, the quite brutal crop of the gh4 in 4K doens't help much but I would hate loosing the autofcous for quickly locking in focus before I start to shoot.

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Thanks Noa.

Yes most of the shots are done with the 18-35. I shoot from a 'Camframe'. Maybe you could look that up. For the rest it's a matter of having a stable hand and post processing.

I don't use native glass I you can read in the OP, because I like the look better of the lenses without all the electronic corrections going on that you can't shut off. My colleague actually uses the 12-35mm 2.8 and the 35-100 2.8 and I find his footage always more 'harsh' and digitally looking. On the other hand, they are sharper.

Anyway, the problem is that 12mm is JUST not wide enough for the ceremonies so I would like to have something a tad wider. The Speed Booster works great on the Sigma 18-35mm but it couldn't get the Tokina 11-16mm to work great at large apertures unfortunately. Ultra wide-angles are hard to adapt. Literally.

So I want to use somehing with a native mount this time. As I said, 12mm is just cutting it but barely. But the 10mm doesn't take filters, which is a big problem. Is there anything else around 10mm that does take filters in this price range? That would be great.

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Are you serious? A GH3 + Speedbooster + Sigma 18-35 f1.8 (f1.2 with SB) is not bad in low light at all. Sure, there might be better low light camera's, but this isn't bad at all. Also, I need the 50p 1080p for slow mo and I simply like the current look I'm getting. At the time I invested in these camera's, C100's couldn't even do 50p/60p at 1080...

Many people don't take these Panasonic 'toys' seriously but I guess that's actually a good thing. Actually, I feel obliged now to show you some of my work. (2nd half of the film has a lot of indoor low light shots.)

 

By the way I forgot to mention that I need this wide angle mainly for the 2nd camera, in this case the G6, to record a wide view of the ceremony.

​Have you ever used a Sony A7s, C100, 5D.... If so you would no what you can and can't do. Ive shot projects on GH1-GH4 and all you need is that one instance where you are in that situation where you need iso 1600 and more and those cameras simply won't work. Most cameras are good with light, GH included but placed in that sticky situation is the main reason you really can't use them run and gun.

 

* Your video you showed has a problem with color tones and balance + a lot of scenes do not match well. Furthermore I would definitely look into some proper stabilization to het some nice fluid shots instead of jerky handheld 60p footage you have their. The project looks ok, but you need to step it up to get to the next level......

 

 

*Shot on C100 by Delivery men which I consider some of the best at what they do.....

 

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I have shot 6400 iso on the gh4 in 4k and it looks fine when downscaled into a 1080p project, that's why low light is not a issue for those camera's, ofcourse a c100 or a7s will shoot cleaner and can go higher in iso but why would you, if I can show a candlelit venue the way I can see it with my eyes when using a gh4 I don't need a a7s to turn night into day, I just need to show it like it was and then 3200 iso and a f2.0 lens are already sufficient.

Also remember, we are not talking high end commercial productions here for corporations, these weddingsfilms are for regular people that can't tell the difference between a image from a sony a6000 and a canon 1dc, as long as you manage to get the content right and have sufficient skill and talent to use your camera's at their best and edit it into a compelling piece then the gear doesn't matter. Almost all current camera offerings below 1500 dollar are suitable camera's to cover weddings, even high end, with.

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@JFR: And switching to a C100 II is going to make that difference?

The video by The Delivery Men you are showing is great. Is it great because it's shot on a C100? Would it be worse to watch when they had used a GH3 + Speed Booster? Maybe it would have a little more noise... who would care... it still would be awesome, because it has great production value. It's not the camera that makes it that good, it's the talent of a pretty big team:

Agency - The Delivery Men
Story - The Delivery Men
Staring - Jessica Perrin, Dietrich Schmidt, Diane Perella, Walter Allan
Directed // DOP - Joe Simon
Written - Hussain Pirani
Executive Producer - CANON CAMERA, Brent Ramsey
Producer - Gina Gatto
Casting Director - Sarah Dowling
Hair and Makeup - Misha Fruge
Gaffer - Derrick Mitchell
Grip - Chris York
Production Assistants - Katie Mcgaha, Derek Fuller
Editor - Hussain Pirani
VFX - Graham Hutchins
Color - Joe Simon
BTS Camera - Tyler Gorrell

 

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*Shot on C100 by Delivery men which I consider some of the best at what they do.....

​This particular video has nothing to do with weddings, it's a preplanned production set, everything you see in that film is staged, you can make any camera look good in such a situation. Don't know if you ever have shot a wedding, their is no-one that says "action!" , there are no second takes and if you have to shoot from inside a venue directly into the sunlight during a ceremony that's just bad luck.

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​Have you ever used a Sony A7s, C100, 5D.... If so you would no what you can and can't do. Ive shot projects on GH1-GH4 and all you need is that one instance where you are in that situation where you need iso 1600 and more and those cameras simply won't work. Most cameras are good with light, GH included but placed in that sticky situation is the main reason you really can't use them run and gun.

 

* Your video you showed has a problem with color tones and balance + a lot of scenes do not match well. Furthermore I would definitely look into some proper stabilization to het some nice fluid shots instead of jerky handheld 60p footage you have their. The project looks ok, but you need to step it up to get to the next level......

 

 

*Shot on C100 by Delivery men which I consider some of the best at what they do.....

 

Thanks JFR. First, would you mind editing your post and deleting the link that I've posted and you quoted? I just wanted to show it to you, not have it here online forever. Thank you very much. If people are interested in my work, they could visit my website http://www.cinematicwedding.nl .

The video you posted is indeed 'the next level'. Great looking footage, editing, grading, etc. But that is nowhere near 'run & gun' like we wedding filmers do. These shots are prepared and prepared well. They used lights, production design, etc. I'm sure most shots are done in multiple takes. This is more like a short film. Although I get your point, this isn't really a fair comparison.

When I bought my GH3 2 years ago, there wasn't an alternative that could shoot 1080p at 50 or 60 fps. There is now. Of course I will be upgrading along the way, but the camera is not my limiting factor at the moment. Neither in my creativity, nor in what my clients think of my films. Quite the opposite, they are often amazed by the 'clear image' and slowmo. Unfortunately, my business is not high enough ranked in Google yet to make enough money to constantly upgrade all my gear. As you understand, the camera is only one of the tools one needs to buy to make good films. 

And as much as I agree there are better camera's out there in terms of DR, colors and low light, the GH3 and GH4 are more than great alternatives. You are right that ISO 1600 is the maximum ISO one can use. We never go over it. But with a Speed Boosted f1.8 lens I've only once encountered a venue where it was slightly too dark and that was in the film that I posted here.

Anyway, will check out more work of Delivery Men. Cheers.

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There actually is a very nice wide, bright and native solution coming up: the Voigtlaender 10.5mm f/0.95. Won't be cheap though. Probably well over €1000
http://voigtlaender.com/10,5-mm-f-0,95-nokton.html

Or the Kowa 8.5mm f/2.8, same price range...
http://www.kowa-prominar.com/special/wide_lens/index.htm
Expensive, but good: http://whimsical.nu/2014/12/01/a-kowa-prominar-8-5mm-f2-8-micro-four-thirds-lens-review/

 

 

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Just wanted to say stab, that the video you posted was gorgeous! I could never be brave enough to do any wedding video and on the basis of what you just showed, if I were in the Netherlands when I got married, you would be top of my list!

​Thank you so much! If you happen to plan your wedding over here, you know were to find us :)

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this whole thread is kind of a bummer.. hope you get some more on topic advice soon about what lens you should go for instead of scoffs and people telling you to ditch your whole kit :/ idk what lens to look at but you're obviously talented and have more than adequate tools, good luck!

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