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Andrew Reid

Canon 1D C used price slips under £5000 - and why I decided to take the gamble and get one

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I bought a 1Dc a couple of years ago for my work in Hong Kong where I now live. It seemed like a good deal at the time as the HK price cost the equivalent of US10K which was 2K less than the US price. I was going to buy a C100 but changed my mind after some seeing footage from the 1Dc.

The 4K image is really lovely.. especially in log. The 4K MJPEG files are a bit of a pain to edit with but converting to prores using the ITU-R BT 601 full range setting in 5DtoRGB creates files with identical colour and gamma range as the original MJPEG files. I was surprised to learn that 1Dc uses BT 601 colour space for 4K.. all the other video modes use rec 709.

This link has some interesting info about 1Dc:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?304245-Some-interesting-facts-about-Canon-1D-C-you-probably-don-t-know-about&s=8f9930e14975030afa7d7f6562279bbc

If you prefer to shoot smaller file sizes, super 35 HD mode is underrated. The quality is brilliant and quite a bit less skew/jello than 4K. The full HD modes are softer than s35 but slightly sharper than 5D mk3 and also seem to have a tad more DR in neutral etc by comparison to 5D mk3.

Abelcine has some really useful luts for canon log:

http://blog.abelcine.com/2013/12/04/canon-luts-for-the-c100-c300-and-c500/

I’ve had best results using the wide DR luts to grade beneath in resolve or fcpx.

The one feature that I’de really wish canon would implement is a waveform monitor. Log works brilliantly if you hit the sweet spot but it’s easy to under or over expose without a waveform. Unfortunately the view assist feature is not very good judging exposure and I prefer to shoot without external devices.

Brilliant for stills & overall a great versatile beast of camera. Expensive compared to what’s now on offer from Sony & Panasonic but for me no regrets.

​I also found those luts a while back. The custom ones from Andy Shipsides work but the rec.709 from canon clipped highlights quickly. I think From what I've read and my own experience the Log from the 1dc is slightly different than that of the other c-log canons. (probably the BT601)   I think Looklabs neutral start works well with the 1dc camera patch applied as a drag and drop starting point.

Agree about the log sweet spot.  waveform would be great.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

Has anyone shot the new 4K pro res option with the Odyessey Q7 . The one big draw back with the 1DC is the huge file sizes .

I read that they have just added it in a new firmware update .

This would seem to be a great solution.  

Thanks,

Tim

 

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1D C MJPEG 4K is just over 500Mbit/s, less than ProRes 422.

ProRes LT hovers around the 350-400Mbit/s mark so a reasonable space saving. That's what I'm converting to at the moment.

Absolutely in love with the images.

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The Anamorphot on the 40mm canon pancake is the image I love out of the cam . The image it makes looks detailed without being overly sharp.  I would like to see what that combo looks like on the a7s but not sure how well that lens would work being all electronic  I also tried the canon 28mm 2.8 for the benefit of IS,  thinking the 1.3x crop might be close enough but it vignettes a little too much.

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

By the way, the 1DC does an incredible downsample from the 4K image to 1080p sent the HDMI output when set to 1.3x crop/4K mode. This signal can be recorded to any cheap 1080p recorder. The significance is that if you don't need recropping/reframing and will deliver in 1080p, recording this way gives you the same 4k externally downscaled to 1080p sharpness but in ProRes 422, for faster turnarounds and handing off to clients who like ProRes. Recording in 4K will give an advantage in recropping obviously but with thee file size restrictions and the MJPEG codec that takes time to transcode to ProRes and downsample to 1080p...  

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"Unfortunately I don't think that 150 mins will last me out the year 
 Like this"

Andrew, I am looking very forward for hours of great Videos with great Cameras and lenses. 

Eoshd can be äs entertaining as  TopGear :) 

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Can't the Shogun be paired with the Canon 1Dc and if so, what does the footage look like?

Why would you want that? The 1Dc shoots 4k 422 internal.

It puts out 1080p 8 bit uncompressed that is a nice HD derived from 4k with a 1.3 crop, but the 4k 422 500Mbit/s is already on the CF-card.

The 1Dc does not output anything better (or equivalent) to what it already captures internally.

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That's what one would presume based on specs.​  However,  I recorded log 4k internal mjpeg and log 1080 prores 422 on the CD7Q simultaneously.  I downscaled the 4k internal (1.0 gamma for downscale) and compared the files side by side at 100% on a recently calibrated and profiled rec.709 display (hardware, not faux calibration through the video card) with proper ambient lighting.  To my surprise the banding and the majority of chroma noise in the file from the external recorder was eliminated when compared to the downscaled 4k.  In my opinion, the ability to saturate colors without adverse effects also improved, but I haven't got around to experimenting fully. A fun test for my purposes will be to compare uploaded versions of 4k internal vs downscaled 4k in post vs  1080 via Q7 vs  upscaled to 4k 1080 via Q7

 As an aside, while the 1Dc  produces some very nice images, obtaining rich saturated colors from the 8 bit internal 4k log can be a challenge, as a vimeo search will verify.  Not a problem if you desire a flat, log look which is currently en vogue. Alternatively, I have had some success  using a Vision Color picture profile combined with a Schneider Digicon filter which optically raises black levels while lowering highlights.  Flare, halation, and the need for a matte box are the downsides.

 

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Have you ever been diagnosed with bipolar disorder Andrew?

The market changes quickly. Opinions must react accordingly. If anything, the market is bipolar.

For $6k the 1DC is a simply fantastic camera. Canon kills it for ease of use, reliability, and "look." On tech specs they die. For $15k the 1DC is crippled (intentionally) because Canon was afraid it was a bit too good if priced lower... they were right...

But now it's priced lower! No joke I would really love one. Wondering why I bought a C100 and 5D Mark III instead. :X

 

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​Wondering why I bought a C100 and 5D Mark III instead. :X

 

Had a 5D mk3. Bought a C100. Was really happy with both products on their own, but didn't like to have two setups and sometimes decide what camera to bring along. I then looked at the total price for both cameras, including the needed support gear. Sold both and got a 1Dc.

This was two years ago, as I got one of the first 1Dcs when they were launched. Take a guess if I have been a happy camper since?

People laughed at, and mocked, the Canon 1Dc at launch. It's no secret that Andrew was among the loudest voices in that crowd.

Now it's the "camera of the year" here at EOSHD.

There is lots to think about here. 

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In February 2014 I said the 1D C ranked 8th in league 1 along with other cinema cameras (all in the region of $20,000+)

Not sure why I put the F5 at 9, maybe I was thinking 4K with the external recorder.

Anyway that's the kind of image we're dealing with here.

A league 1 hollywood quality image for £5000 is my camera of the year.

I don't see what's hard to tolerate or accept about that opinion. It shouldn't really be that controversial.

Opinions are always based on needs, perspective and relative judgements which shift over time.

Everybody's needs differ as do their opinions, again this shouldn't be the source of so much online bitching and drama. Face to face it doesn't work like this, only on the internet does it become a source of such bitter conflict. Weird!

2 years ago my friend, when the 1D C was released, Canon deserved all the criticism they got from me for pricing regular shooters out of the only major improvement Canon has made to DSLR video quality, since they started the whole democracy.

It's not a democracy to them though, it's a business. A bit of a shame if you ask me. It could have been both!

Canon on the one hand claim to support indie filmmakers but really they're not interested in art or niches unless they have a massive margin, aka Cinema EOS.

Also for the $12,000 launch price 1D C, the lack of video features deserved to be mocked! Not even peaking for that price!? No focus magnification while rolling? Grr! They don't make our life easy considering the money we hand over.

However, although these features would have been nice (cough cough) for the $12,000 / £10,000, it really doesn't bother me any more. At £5k as an owner, I am over it. I just want the image and the rock solid reliable 1D X based body, because of the way I intend to use the camera. I will be shooting through a z-finder type loupe handheld off a gorilla pod, no spidery rig or external recorder, no external battery, no shoulder mount and rails, just a small light super-8 style camera that I can go filmmaking with and get the most cinematic image available to me.

If you have been an EOSHD reader for a while AccordingToMe you should be educated enough now to make your OWN choices. If the extra video features of the A7S, GH4 and other mirrorless cameras are important to you then you are not short of information are you!? I've been banging on about them all year!!

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Everybody's needs differ as do their opinions, again this shouldn't be the source of so much online bitching and drama. Face to face it doesn't work like this, only on the internet does it become a source of such bitter conflict. Weird!

Face to face (in real life), people don't "bitch and moan" to a madman. j/k hahahaha.. Things are more civilized.  On the internet, nobody really knows "dick from harry" hahahahaha...  If someone is slightly "off", people will complain.  The internet has basically no filter which is nice.  Echo chambers are harder to come by...  On the internet, it's easier to get to the truth (I said easier :-)

Yes, a used Canon 1dc is probably the best camera under $7,000.  How many people actually care?  Not as much.  Compare the number of users in the gh4/a7s subforums to those in the canon cinema subforums in dvxuser.  There's a 2 to 1 difference;  not only that but, there are many people in the cinema forums asking questions about the gh4/a7s.  The sweet spot for video is $2,500 and lower.  That's where most interest will be garnered and where most clicks will be derived from.  At that price point, many people can own the camera from soccer moms to hobbyist to film students.  At that price point, the the quality of the video is also good enough that pros are also interested.

It use to be higher end products would drive sells of lower end products.  Win the race on "sunday, sell on monday."  Have a "halo product" and the lower products will benefit.  The unwashed masses will see X or Y professional use X or Y product and than buy the lesser or more affordable product the next day.  I think that was/is canon's marketing strategy.  It's not working.  Just because canon cinema cameras are better than most products, I'm not going to buy their lesser end products because their premier products are awesome.  While Andrew does make a good case for buying a used 1DC, I'm not going to be spending $7,000 on a used camera.  That is a bridge too far for me.  Those that need the extra quality will spend the money -- and in my humble opinion, they have.... but that is not where the $$$$ or the "clicks" are derived from... Camera's like the gh4 and the a7s.. or hell, the nx1.. those are where the money, interests, clicks, etc.. are being generating in...

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"just a small light super-8 style camera that I can go filmmaking with and get the most cinematic image available to me."

Like this?  Zacuto evf mounted upside down for quick flipdown  finder

1dcbolex.jpg

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2 years ago my friend, when the 1D C was released, Canon deserved all the criticism they got from me for pricing regular shooters out of the only major improvement Canon has made to DSLR video quality, since they started the whole democracy. It's not a democracy to them though, it's a business.

I don't know if you are serious here? Are you insinuating that Canon should invest and invent and then hand out their gear for entry level money, so that as many happy enthusiasts as possible get access to the world's best gear? 

If you have been an EOSHD reader for a while AccordingToMe you should be educated enough now to make your OWN choices. If the extra video features of the A7S, GH4 and other mirrorless cameras are important to you then you are not short of information are you!? I've been banging on about them all year!!

​As you can see, this account is newly registered so I've been spared any guidance. That fact aside, I made my informed decision and bought a 1Dc two years ago. The first project I made (3 shooting days, with about two weeks in post) paid for the camera at retail price. It was a business investment.

The camera has always been the same (disregarding two marginal firmware updates). Your evaluation of it should not change from then to now. The price of the 1Dc is a feature. It still costs $12.000. What you can get a used one for is not relevant. Seems like you got a good price—congratulations. The $12k price keeps the camera out of the hands of amateurs. This, my friend, whether you realize it or not, is important to working professionals. A comparison can be made to how RED handled their launches and how much easier it was for the $55000 Epic M early adopters to get their money back, than it has been for some of the $24000 owners that get access to the camera in a saturated market.

I know for a fact that Canon gets constant feedback from their CPS users begging them to make their pro gear more expensive. Surely you understand the BUSINESS logic here?  Hasselblad medium format also comes to mind: pay the price of admission and you've got an isolated market up for grabs. The 1Dc is not a hobbyist's camera first.

Since you bring it up, the Sonys and Panasonics aren't important to me at all. I am happy for all the users that are happy with these cameras. I do follow some of the news around the A7s. Mostly since I want to see how the kinks get worked out on the external recording side. 

The only features I really miss on the 1Dc are the Dual Pixel AF and NDs. DPAF is a more current innovation. All of the assist features that you talk about makes much more sense to me when used on an external monitor. I use a LCDVF for mobile shooting and a monitor when locked down.

Well, a lite 4k consumer codec would be a nice addition as well for those times when you just want to roll the camera and not worry about files sizes. Filming the kids comes to mind.

I'm using this account to provide an alternate perspective to some of your readers. Time will tell if they are interested.

 

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