Sigma Fp review and interview / Cinema DNG RAW

[Ty Harper]

@mercerI started my cam journey in earnest on the 5D MKII/IIII with the ML hack - so I have a soft spot for that RAW workflow! And I still have two 5D MKIII that I will prob never sell. I currently have a R5OV as travel/casual/C cam but I am not feeling the APSC look. So when I recently rediscovered the FP I became a bit obsessed with the idea of having something that small and powerful become my casual/travel cam. Meanwhile I'd just keep the R50V as a C-cam to my R5Cs. But as you say, the FP seems so finnicky that it has required an unprecedented level of research/due diligence on my end. So I've been wavering back and forth for about a month now. 

As it stands, if I can get a used FP in good condition for $600 USD (just missed one with the modded back dial for that price!) then I'll go for it (knowing I'd still be buying the DPL screen mod, the DPL base cage+SSD holder+SSD bottom mount and side accessory, a Meike or Vizelex Smart adapter/VND, and the pdmovie 3). If not, there's the Lumix S9 and maaaaybe the Nikon ZR but that then I'm getting to R6V territory as far as size and price.

[mercer]

14 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

 

@mercerI started my cam journey in earnest on the 5D MKII/IIII with the ML hack - so I have a soft spot for that RAW workflow! And I still have two 5D MKIII that I will prob never sell.

 

Same. Well I only have one body but I'll never sell it. If not for a few modern conveniences, none of which being higher resolution, I wouldn't even bother with any other camera.

14 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

I currently have a R5OV as travel/casual/C cam but I am not feeling the APSC look.

I bought and returned the R50V. I actually really liked the camera, especially for the price, but its inability to display exposure tools and the View Assist LUT at the same time was way too frustrating and the Histogram wasn't accurate enough for me. But I did see they updated the firmware to allow the LUT and False Color to be turned on at the same time, so that's pretty cool. Of course that happened exactly 3 days after I returned it. I picked up a refurbed V1 directly from Canon and I like it a lot. Am using it, and the 5D3, for a short film I'm writing.

14 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

So when I recently rediscovered the FP I became a bit obsessed with the idea of having something that small and powerful become my casual/travel cam. Meanwhile I'd just keep the R50V as a C-cam to my R5Cs. But as you say, the FP seems so finnicky that it has required an unprecedented level of research/due diligence on my end. So I've been wavering back and forth for about a month now. 

That's exactly what I thought about the FP and when it arrived my jaw dropped seeing how small it is... but... then you quickly realize how big the thing gets once you add a cage and an SSD on top. I spent hours upon hours researching and testing different configurations to keep it compact. I looked at the Dark Power stuff, but I was trying to keep the camera package as cheap and small as possible.

The best I could come up with was to shoot it in 8bit cDNG mode with an SDXC card and a NiceyRig handle. The 8bit quality isn't bad at all in CDNG. But the cards are expensive and you can't get much footage onto a 128gb card... plus I'd rather shoot 12bit so I got a generic cage off Amazon and bought a couple SSDs and just attached them with a phone tripod clamp. I also bought a SmallRig drive encasement and put a Samsung drive inside and that kept it fairly small.

Last summer I finally had a project to shoot with it and with all my tests, I didn't really realize how quickly it ate through batteries until I was on set. Luckily, I had just enough power and drives to make the day, but I was starting to get nervous.

14 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

As it stands, if I can get a used FP in good condition for $600 USD (just missed one with the modded back dial for that price!) then I'll go for it (knowing I'd still be buying the DPL screen mod, the DPL base cage+SSD holder+SSD bottom mount and side accessory, a Meike or Vizelex Smart adapter/VND, and the pdmovie 3). If not, there's the Lumix S9 and maaaaybe the Nikon ZR but that then I'm getting to R6V territory as far as size and price.

That's a great price for the FP if you can find one. I'm probably going to trade mine in to take advantage of the ZR $100 trade in bonus through B&H. I'll get a little less for the camera, but not that much less when you add the fees and headaches of eBay, private sales.

I was wavering between the ZR and R6V, I really like the idea of the 3K S16 crop mode on the R6V and I love the body style, but the ZR just offers to many other shooting options internally and the internal 32bit audio... no brainer for me for now.

All that said, if you like shooting raw video, which you obviously do, then the FP is a fun camera with a bunch of little quirks that aren't necessarily deal breakers but can be frustrating sometimes. 

[eatstoomuchjam]

4 hours ago, mercer said:

That's exactly what I thought about the FP and when it arrived my jaw dropped seeing how small it is... but... then you quickly realize how big the thing gets once you add a cage and an SSD on top. I spent hours upon hours researching and testing different configurations to keep it compact. I looked at the Dark Power stuff, but I was trying to keep the camera package as cheap and small as possible.

This is exactly why I ended up selling my fp and fp-l.  I tried just about everything to keep the kit small for raw recording.  And kept coming back to how big they got, even with the smallest possible external SSD (one of the DPL SSD cases in their mount).  By the time I added that, I had a camera the same size as my Canon R5, but also less capable than the R5.  If Sigma would release the exact same camera, but able to record compressed 12-bit raw to SD card (Canon did it on the C70 and they do it in raw lt on the C80!) - or with a CFE slot that can record the existing uncompressed raw, I'd be strongly considering it again.  The default size for the fp is just so good.

Similarly, once the price of the bf gets to "not silly" level, I'd be apt to get one.

Anyway, the ZR seems to be almost everything that I wanted the fp to be - it's another one that I'm likely to get someday after prices drop more (or there's a crazy good sale).

[Ty Harper]

17 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

This is exactly why I ended up selling my fp and fp-l.  I tried just about everything to keep the kit small for raw recording.  And kept coming back to how big they got, even with the smallest possible external SSD (one of the DPL SSD cases in their mount).  By the time I added that, I had a camera the same size as my Canon R5, but also less capable than the R5.

Are you referring to the original DPL base mount with the SSD bottom rack + USB side plate in this video? 

Also had you tried the RAW 12bit 1080p option via SD cards? I've heard it's pretty good so was thinking it could be a compromise in situations where I want to be as light as possible. I'd be shooting exclusively with the EF 35mm f2 (IS) and maybe pickup a 24mm f/2.8 (IS) + the PDmovie Live Air 3 and look into DPL's screen mod later down the line. But I figured that lens/PDmovie setup (w/o the DPL stuff) would cover the main limitations of the FP, while still being a fairly small footprint - but curious what you think from your own experience?

 

 

 

[eatstoomuchjam]

37 minutes ago, Ty Harper said:

Are you referring to the original DPL base mount with the SSD bottom rack + USB side plate in this video? 

It's been a while, but I think it was either that or a slightly bigger cage that wrapped the whole camera.  I had the option for the bottom-mounted SSD or a side-mounted smaller one.  I primarily used the side-mounted one since it was overall smaller.

39 minutes ago, Ty Harper said:

Also had you tried the RAW 12bit 1080p option via SD cards?

I didn't - I don't have a lot of interest in shooting 1080p these days.  If I did, I'd be more inclined to re-buy the original BMPCC (sometimes I consider this and always turn back when I see the current prices).

43 minutes ago, Ty Harper said:

I'd be shooting exclusively with the EF 35mm f2 (IS) and maybe pickup a 24mm f/2.8 (IS) + the PDmovie Live Air 3

The EF 35/2 IS is great.  I don't think I have (or have used) the EF 24/2.8 IS, but it's decent.  You might also consider the 24-70/4L IS.  It's definitely a little bigger than the other two lenses, but not bigger than both of them together.  Not as fast, but the fp is alright in low light.

I personally didn't like the PDMovie at all.  The one that I had used some weird little batteries and there was no way to tell it to focus on anything but the closest thing.  YMMV.

If it were me nowadays, I'd give a hard look at the ZR.  A used ZR costs more than a used FP, but the difference gets to be less when you end up buying a DPL cage and PDMovie to make up for the FP's shortcomings - and closer yet with the flip screen mod.  With the ZR, you'll get a much nicer screen, decent autofocus, and built-in raw.