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The ghost of squig

A Pocket 4K, X-T3, 5DMk3 ML raw odyssey

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8 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I'd love to see some comparison footage. 

Wasn't expecting the Pocket to be significantly better than the Fuji. Its a very tempting option right now along with a hacked 5D mark 3. How does prores compare to the HEVC on the Pocket?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1bTrb4QlNxZRQW2dZPMQ5_7U5b0jMxrQ5

I haven't shot any ProRes, been quite content recording Braw to a T5 drive and UHS-1 Sandisk extreme pro cards. The P4K pairs better with the 5D than the X-T3, much easier to match in post. Keeping in mind I've been working on doco with no control of the lighting, the X-T3 would do a lot better with controlled lighting.

8 hours ago, Geoff_L said:

I am exactly thinking the same... For still + video, could be a good combo. Lenses and batteries can be shared, even if it appears to be better going external on the BM. Given the prices of the used 5D, it roughly makes the pack at the same level of the others hybrids (if keeping the BM accessories to a minimal).

I wonder something, maybe @The ghost of squig has an answer : I see everybody rigging the bmpcc4k (with quite big rigs for some), which is, given its purpose as a cinema camera, a logical thing. But, what if you try to use it with the minimal accessories, e.g only a smallrig cage (+ a t5 ssd, or only a fast sd card) and a little mic ? I believe the battery life is only 20min, but if you have 4 or 5 canon batteries with you and a powerbank to charge them in an emergency, could it work to avoid the big external powering solutions ? I know it depends on the shooting style and the type of work, but, still, I wonder 😄

I wouldn't bother with LP-E6 batteries, the run-time is too short. I haven't bought a cage, I have it rigged to 15mm rails with the Sony L battery hanging off the back of the rails and the T5 mounted to the rails under the lens. If you're booming you can mount the L battery on the top thread. I have v-mounts and powerbanks, but I'm satisfied with the Sony L setup for now. It's probably the cheapest option, and I only have to charge 2-3 of them at the end of the day.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
8 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

My only worry with using a 5D mk3 or any Canon with magic lantern is the unreliability. I've heard of people losing all their footage, which of course is not acceptable for pro work.

Right now I have my XT30, Black Magic Pocket OG, and Pocket cinema Camera. Might consider selling the XT3 for a Pocket camera 4k.

I am tempted to get a 5D mk3 but again Magic lantern kind of scares me.

The only instances I'm aware of where all footage has been lost is due to card failure, which is just as likely to happen with any camera. This unreliability thing is a myth perpetuated since day one of Magic Lantern. Sure nightly builds have had some bugs, but anyone would be crazy to shoot a job with an untested nightly build. The nightly I'm using has been around for a year, and it's solid. I've been shooting with ML for over 7 years, and I've never had any worries about its reliability.

8 hours ago, Geoff_L said:

Yes, I do not know what to think about the reliability, as I came across different opinions. Some warn everybody after they lost their footage... others say they never have any troubles ! But I think I read more of the latter.
Interesting that you keep your XT30 and not the XT3 . Both are on my list, and If I go the bmpcc4k route, I'll need a still camera !

I follow the ML forum closely, it's definitely the latter.

I'm not taking any stills with the X-T3, I know I'll want to keep it, but I don't make my living shooting stills so it has to go.

7 hours ago, Geoff_L said:

XT3 + bmpcc4k would be a great combo too... less cumbersome than BM + 5D for my needs. But probably out of budget. With that being said, I really like the tokina 11-16 f2.8 and the sigma 18-35 f1.8, and both can be shared between the XT3 and bmpcc4k. Plus, the budget could be less stretched than buying the same focals for a full frame...

If you're mostly shooting daylight and 5600k, sure.

6 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I know  a lot of people do it, but I would Never depend on ML for anything I can't repeat easily. Ergo, A Wedding, Baptism, Sporting event, on and on. I am a big fan of the 5d mk III but not if I was trying to make a living using ML on it. It is too unpredictable. Sure at low resolutions it works, but why even bother as a Pro doing that.

It's just code man, not voodoo magic.

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2 hours ago, The ghost of squig said:

The only instances I'm aware of where all footage has been lost is due to card failure, which is just as likely to happen with any camera. This unreliability thing is a myth perpetuated since day one of Magic Lantern. Sure nightly builds have had some bugs, but anyone would be crazy to shoot a job with an untested nightly build. The nightly I'm using has been around for a year, and it's solid. I've been shooting with ML for over 7 years, and I've never had any worries about its reliability.

So as long as good cards are used there should be no issue? I had an important clip get corrupted on my XT30 using a not so great card, multiple times. Never happened with Sandisk. If thats all it is I am on board. 

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9 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

So as long as good cards are used there should be no issue? I had an important clip get corrupted on my XT30 using a not so great card, multiple times. Never happened with Sandisk. If thats all it is I am on board. 

No issues to be concerned about that I'm aware of. I've been using the same 4 Lexar and Toshiba 1066x 64GB CF cards for years. The only way to ensure against data loss is to shoot with a camera that either records to 2 cards or records internally and outputs a clean feed simultaneously.

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On 6/30/2019 at 11:34 PM, The ghost of squig said:

No issues to be concerned about that I'm aware of. I've been using the same 4 Lexar and Toshiba 1066x 64GB CF cards for years. The only way to ensure against data loss is to shoot with a camera that either records to 2 cards or records internally and outputs a clean feed simultaneously.

Right now that pixelation blue sky issue is kind of holding me off on the Pocket 4k.

The 5D MK3 is very tempting at its price point. With the battery grip the battery life is kind of impressive to compared to the XT3 and especially the Pocket. 

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Since Ive so far never seen the "pixelation blue sky issue", can someone tell me what it is I have to do to provoke it?
Could be good to see it first hand and how it came about in order to avoid it.

Format, type of exposure etc?

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@Mattias Burling The easier way to see it is film directly up at blue sky then boost the saturation way more than you ever normally would and then get upset about it. This isn't my image, but here's a shot that most are using as an example of the 'problem'.

image.thumb.png.0105ed13dd2021febc259fa57399f26a.png

 

This isn't an issue with Braw specifically, people say it's also apparent in ProRes, but IMO it's still cleaner than this image, which is from 4:1 DNG... if blue skies never bothered you with DNG, they also won't with Braw.

image.thumb.png.ce048f9786f66978853f4b2b51ebd8f0.png

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2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Since Ive so far never seen the "pixelation blue sky issue", can someone tell me what it is I have to do to provoke it?
Could be good to see it first hand and how it came about in order to avoid it.

Format, type of exposure etc?

I'm still trying to figure it out, so far I'm thinking underexposure could be what makes it visible, but I have to do some more tests to confirm that hypothesis.

And no I didn't "boost the saturation way more than you ever normally would and then get upset about it" on my initial test. However, on a later test I did have to push the grade to an extreme level to break it. Adding filmconvert grain is a big no no, it makes it much more visible.

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Yeah

2 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

@Mattias Burling The easier way to see it is film directly up at blue sky then boost the saturation way more than you ever normally would and then get upset about it. This isn't my image, but here's a shot that most are using as an example of the 'problem'.

This isn't an issue with Braw specifically, people say it's also apparent in ProRes, but IMO it's still cleaner than this image, which is from 4:1 DNG... if blue skies never bothered you with DNG, they also won't with Braw.

 

If you look at The ghost of squig's test, he compared it to the Fuji XT3 and 5D MK3. None of them had a big sat boost but only the BM Pocket 4k had this issue. At least to me it also did stand out quite a bit. I don't shoot blue skies much so I guess it doesn't matter. Still concerning to me though.

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35 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Yeah

If you look at The ghost of squig's test, he compared it to the Fuji XT3 and 5D MK3. None of them had a big sat boost but only the BM Pocket 4k had this issue. At least to me it also did stand out quite a bit. I don't shoot blue skies much so I guess it doesn't matter. Still concerning to me though.

1 hour ago, The ghost of squig said:

And no I didn't "boost the saturation way more than you ever normally would and then get upset about it" on my initial test. However, on a later test I did have to push the grade to an extreme level to break it.

Sorry, that was supposed to be tongue in cheek, but reading back, it just looks snarky, my bad.

While I'm rectifying my previous post, the DNG image isn't from the P4k, it's from an Ursa 4.6k (not sure if pro or not, you can read more about it here: https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69405&p=387660)

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3 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

Sorry, that was supposed to be tongue in cheek, but reading back, it just looks snarky, my bad.

While I'm rectifying my previous post, the DNG image isn't from the P4k, it's from an Ursa 4.6k (not sure if pro or not, you can read more about it here: https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69405&p=387660)

No worries. Some of the examples on the BMD forum were super-saturated.

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