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JurijTurnsek

YI 4K60p Action Camera

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Yi is making moves here. 2017 is starting to become the year of 4K 60fps and I love it!

I noticed something weird with their footage though. Cyan coloured vignette appears after some colour grading:
Looks like a lens issue.

 

 

test.00_01_54_03.Still006.jpg

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3 hours ago, JurijTurnsek said:

Here it is in all of its glory (no price yet, unfortunately):
https://www.yitechnology.com/actioncamera/index/id/11
 

Yi is what GoPro should have been. Not an over priced action cam. Though the karma and the LCD are great efforts, they were quite late. Also the ProTune acquisition was great, but GoPro should have separated Professionals' requirements and those of enthusiasts. Also, if they could have somehow pushed a 4k Action Cam that did 100 mbps, as a sports cam with the present specifications, and better pricing, they could have maintained their success trajectory.

Right now, Yi is the Master of Action Cams.

I hope they increase the bitrate, get a great HDR mode, and improve feature via future firmwares.

 

P.S.: Wow !!! The Yi 4k+ does upto 120 mbps. That's insane for a cam this size and at this price point. 

Saw the Full specs. This thing is seriously amazing. 

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1 hour ago, sanveer said:

P.S.: Wow !!! The Yi 4k+ does upto 120 mbps.

Yes, I just hope that next DJI Mavic will have same chipset and also same (or higher) max. bitrate. 135Mbps sounds very nice!

I just hope it will be available also for 24/30fps modes and not just for 4k60fps.

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Curiously the Ambarella H2 chipset (SOC) seems to be adding dynamic range to the footage. The footage appears to have more (perceptive) dynamic range than the regular Yi 4k Action Cam.

I really like the footage. I just saw the mountain snowboarding video, and the colours and dynamic range looked very good. Also the micro blocking seemed much less than that in the GoPro videos. 

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2 hours ago, sanveer said:

Yi is what GoPro should have been. Not an over priced action cam. Though the karma and the LCD are great efforts, they were quite late. Also the ProTune acquisition was great, but GoPro should have separated Professionals' requirements and those of enthusiasts. Also, if they could have somehow pushed a 4k Action Cam that did 100 mbps, as a sports cam with the present specifications, and better pricing, they could have maintained their success trajectory.

Right now, Yi is the Master of Action Cams.

I hope they increase the bitrate, get a great HDR mode, and improve feature via future firmwares.

 

P.S.: Wow !!! The Yi 4k+ does upto 120 mbps. That's insane for a cam this size and at this price point. 

Saw the Full specs. This thing is seriously amazing. 

The new cam does 120 fps, but only at 720p resolution. The Sony X3000 does 120 fps at 1080. Not amazing.

There is no image stabilization at all in 4K 60p. Not amazing. And any stabilization for the lower rates is electronic and image-degrading.  All cameras and most cellphone cameras now have optical or better stabilization, and the Sony X3000 has BOSS, among the best in-camera stabilization systems, which do not degrade. So, not amazing.

4K 60p is amazing; after that nothing new. But definitely better than the GoPro.

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1 hour ago, Antonis said:

Don't get your hopes up too much about that bitrate.
There is still a lot of macro blocking in the footage.
You can download footage off their website to have a closer look.

 

Yes, but it can be just high compression for web.

31 minutes ago, markr041 said:

4K 60p is amazing; after that nothing new.

I think that best feature is new chipset which brings higher bitrate than usual 60Mbps which was standard bitrate for couple of years (60Mbps is really not enough for 4K). I agree that Sony action cam already have 100Mbps which is great, but there was still some chance that Sony will be the only one with higher bitrate fpr some time. This camera is proof that even quite cheap (even we do not know price yet) action cams will be capable to reach +100Mbps bitrates.

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32 minutes ago, Pavel Mašek said:

Yes, but it can be just high compression for web.

If you download the short clip they uploaded you will see that it's a 4K 60 fps H.264 file with bitrates around 90-120mbps.

But I'm not nitpicking about the bitrate that much...it's an action camera in the end..image quality looks nice for what it is.

The large elephant in the room with this camera is that weird cyan vignetting all over the image.
I can't see how anyone who likes to grade their footage would ever consider buying a camera with such a major flaw.

Let's hope it's just a pre-production error...but I'm not holding my breath on this one yet.

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2 hours ago, markr041 said:

 

The new cam does 120 fps, but only at 720p resolution. The Sony X3000 does 120 fps at 1080. Not amazing.

There is no image stabilization at all in 4K 60p. Not amazing. And any stabilization for the lower rates is electronic and image-degrading.  All cameras and most cellphone cameras now have optical or better stabilization, and the Sony X3000 has BOSS, among the best in-camera stabilization systems, which do not degrade. So, not amazing.

4K 60p is amazing; after that nothing new. But definitely better than the GoPro.

The Sony was over-priced by $150-200, and thus the price correction. Also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with EIS, if it is done right. Also, the Yi 4k+ has the new Amarella processor, which is arguably better than what is inside the X3000. Also, the Sony does OIS, because it CANNOT do EIS (it is a 8.2 MP sensor, and it is already short of real estate for EIS, especially for 4k). The Sony's is a curiously rectangular sensor, far wider than necessary, and thus crops a huge part from the sides for 4k video and 4k phooes, taken @ 8.2MP. The Moto X does superb EIS, and in many cases it appears more effective than the OIS on a lot of smartphones.

Also, if the the Sony was so impressive, how come people aren't replacing that for all other cams (especially the prices have fallen drastically since their intro pricing)?

https://www.amazon.com/review/R1PDXFX0QYPPX2/ref=cm_cr_dp_title/156-8996512-9177357?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B01HAVKTF2&channel=detail-glance&nodeID=172282&store=electronics
Also, like ALL Sony Cameras, there is a Chance that it Overheats. As mentioned by one user on Amazon.
"4.0 out of 5 starsGreat Camera but Overheats too easy!!!!

By Joshua N. on October 18, 2016

Overheating seems to be giant issue.

The camera is awesome, the video is sharp. But it overheats way to easy. Sitting on a counter at 70 degrees it will overhead in roughly 40 minutes of continues recording at 4k with the battery door open (Seems like most of the heat is in this area). About 30 minutes with door closed, and about 20 minutes with it inside the waterproof case.

This makes it a huge issue if I am trying to record something that is several hours long. (You have to swap memory 64GB cards out at hour twenty, but haven't been able to record that long yet.)

The next problem I am going to experience is how am I supposed to use the camera. Except in middle of winter in the mountains the average temps are above 70 degrees. Does this mean I can't use the camera?
"

I would like to a Face-Off between the Yi 4k+ and the Sony X3000. A real world test. 

P.S.: The Sony must have some serious issues, since it does a seriously impressive housing as part of the free camera package. It also has very good sound and stabilization. I wonder what is stopping users from picking this over everything else. 

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1 hour ago, sanveer said:

The Sony was over-priced by $150-200, and thus the price correction. Also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with EIS, if it is done right. Also, the Yi 4k+ has the new Amarella processor, which is arguably better than what is inside the X3000. Also, the Sony does OIS, because it CANNOT do EIS (it is a 8.2 MP sensor, and it is already short of real estate for EIS, especially for 4k). The Sony's is a curiously rectangular sensor, far wider than necessary, and thus crops a huge part from the sides for 4k video and 4k phooes, taken @ 8.2MP. The Moto X does superb EIS, and in many cases it appears more effective than the OIS on a lot of smartphones.
 

 

What complete nonsense. Every statement here is without any basis or just plain wrong.

1. You believe the Sony was overpriced, which is irrelevant. In any case there is no price reduction. The selling price now is the same at introduction. Look it up.

2. There is a lot wrong with EIS, requiring a crop of the sensor and reduced resolution among other issues - artifacts.

3. It is preposterous to say that BOSS was implemented because it "CANNOT do EIS". First, BOSS is superior to EIS and second - read slowly here - the SONY also does EIS (should I repeat that?) - that is what "Active" mode for stabilization is, a combination of EIS and BOSS. You can turn EIS off and just do BOSS. No one in their right mind would do EIS instead of  BOSS. It is obvious you know nothing about the Sony. Active mode stabilization has been a feature of Sony's big camcorders for years.

4. You do not understand why Sony chose a "curiously (to you) rectangular" sensor because you do not understand aspect ratios. Sony chose a sensor shape so that there would be few wasted pixels for 16:9 video; the sensor size corresponds to the 16:9 picture size. It is the standard 4:3 sensor (like on GoPro's and Yi's) that wastes a lot of pixels for 16:9 video. "Rectangular" 16:9 is the aspect ratio of video. Pixels would be wasted for 4:3 stills, but this is a video camera.

5. Sony chose to "only" put 8.2 megapixels on the sensor to maximize pixel size while keeping the sensor size small - it is the number of pixels corresponding to 4K (UHD) video. This is why the Sony has superior low-light performance compared with other action cams, which pack 11+ megapixels on a similarly small sensor - bigger pixels, which absorb more light, means better low-light quality. Because of 4 and 5, the X3000 is a not a good stills camera, it is designed for 4K video. Btw, the sensor and processor are exactly the same as in  the Sony AX53 4K BOSS camcorder - the X3000 is essentially a miniature AX53.

Your final, desperate, argument is essentially - if the Sony is so good why is it not dominating the market? Your ignorant rant is an example for why, as it is similar to others. Evidently most people do not understand video and the features of the X3000.

Oh, and your belief the processor of the Sony is inferior is belied by the fact that the Sony processor can do 120 fps in 1080 (with stabilization), while the Yi can only do 120 fps at 720p -  4K60p is a real advantage, however, although the lack of any stabilization for that frame rate severely limits its use.

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19 hours ago, Antonis said:

If you download the short clip they uploaded you will see that it's a 4K 60 fps H.264 file with bitrates around 90-120mbps.

I can see that whole footage has around 100Mbps but it just shows 4K60fps which basically means 50Mbps 4K30fps which is even lesser than GP. That is why there is quite lot of macroblocking.  100Mbps is not enough for 4K60fps but it can be great for 24/30fps...

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On 06/01/2017 at 0:18 AM, markr041 said:

What complete nonsense. Every statement here is without any basis or just plain wrong.

This is the very edifice of your argument. Ironic, therefore, that, you should attempt to state this about someone's argument. 

On 06/01/2017 at 0:18 AM, markr041 said:

1. You believe the Sony was overpriced, which is irrelevant. In any case there is no price reduction. The selling price now is the same at introduction. Look it up

There is DEFINITELY a price reduction. Your ignorance stems from the fact that you do not have any idea of its launch price and its current price, as well as the present standard accessories including in the box (and what was included during launch).

 

On 06/01/2017 at 0:18 AM, markr041 said:

2. There is a lot wrong with EIS, requiring a crop of the sensor and reduced resolution among other issues - artifacts.

Again, your Ignorance has no equal. The Sony X3000 is NOT an 8.2 MP sensor. It is a 12 MP sensor, that does a Crop for Both Video and Photo. Therefore, it DOES have a Full Sensor readout, but Only for Extra Wide photos, in 12 MP size. Video is restricted to 8.2 MP. Also, the Yi 4k and 4k+ have the Sony IMX377 sensor, which is a 12MP 1/2.3" sensor, whereas the X3000 has a 1/2.5" sensor, which does a Further Crop for the 8.2 MP, that it uses for all video formats and most photo formats. Both the cameras have an f2.8 lens, so Sony arguing the X3000 is brighter is curious, especially considering the much smaller size of a smaller sensor, that they use for video.

 

On 06/01/2017 at 0:18 AM, markr041 said:

3. It is preposterous to say that BOSS was implemented because it "CANNOT do EIS". First, BOSS is superior to EIS and second - read slowly here - the SONY also does EIS (should I repeat that?) - that is what "Active" mode for stabilization is, a combination of EIS and BOSS. You can turn EIS off and just do BOSS. No one in their right mind would do EIS instead of  BOSS. It is obvious you know nothing about the Sony. Active mode stabilization has been a feature of Sony's big camcorders for years.

 Again, you state facts out of pure ignorance, followed by over-confidence. Read what I wrote above. The X3000 already does a crop to reach the 8.2 MP size, so there is no argument of whether it can do EIS. It cannot. Sony has been doing excellent OIS in their handycam range (and many other cameras) for the longest, so they obciously are great at doing it. About 'nobody doing EIS instead of BOSS ..." is another piece of your ignorant rant. It makes no sense, as is as ignorant as all your other ants above. Sony themselves have been continuously been attempting to improve EIS, because of the possibility of faster and more accurate readout for correction (though not employing or engaging all axis for stabilization), the case in point being the IMX318. 

 

On 06/01/2017 at 0:18 AM, markr041 said:

4. You do not understand why Sony chose a "curiously (to you) rectangular" sensor because you do not understand aspect ratios. Sony chose a sensor shape so that there would be few wasted pixels for 16:9 video; the sensor size corresponds to the 16:9 picture size. It is the standard 4:3 sensor (like on GoPro's and Yi's) that wastes a lot of pixels for 16:9 video. "Rectangular" 16:9 is the aspect ratio of video. Pixels would be wasted for 4:3 stills, but this is a video camera.

Again a show of your unparalleled stupidity. If you read above, it should help you answer your own stupid questions. 

 

On 06/01/2017 at 0:18 AM, markr041 said:

5. Sony chose to "only" put 8.2 megapixels on the sensor to maximize pixel size while keeping the sensor size small - it is the number of pixels corresponding to 4K (UHD) video. This is why the Sony has superior low-light performance compared with other action cams, which pack 11+ megapixels on a similarly small sensor - bigger pixels, which absorb more light, means better low-light quality. Because of 4 and 5, the X3000 is a not a good stills camera, it is designed for 4K video. Btw, the sensor and processor are exactly the same as in  the Sony AX53 4K BOSS camcorder - the X3000 is essentially a miniature AX53.

Again, your stupidity on full display. It's almost like you open you mouth first, and then start processing your thoughts. 
 

On 06/01/2017 at 0:18 AM, markr041 said:

Your final, desperate, argument is essentially - if the Sony is so good why is it not dominating the market? Your ignorant rant is an example for why, as it is similar to others. Evidently most people do not understand video and the features of the X3000.

Oh, and your belief the processor of the Sony is inferior is belied by the fact that the Sony processor can do 120 fps in 1080 (with stabilization), while the Yi can only do 120 fps at 720p -  4K60p is a real advantage, however, although the lack of any stabilization for that frame rate severely limits its use

Again your stupidity rears it ugly head. The Yi 4k+ has the Ambarella H2 processor (SoC) that is equipped to handle 10-bit HDR and 4k @ 120. Maybe you should reduce your public rants and read more instead of attempting to post some random gibberish.

You are living proof that the dodo isn't extinct, and that almost all species at some point of time could mate with almost any other species. You are a obviously a dodo and jellyfish hybrid.

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9 hours ago, sanveer said:

This is the very edifice of your argument. Ironic, therefore, that, you should attempt to state this about someone's argument. 

There is DEFINITELY a price reduction. Your ignorance stems from the fact that you do not have any idea of its launch price and its current price, as well as the present standard accessories including in the box (and what was included during launch).

No. I know the launch price. It was $399 for the X3000 alone, and is now $399. For the bundle, $549, then and now.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1278151-REG/sony_fdr_x3000_action_camera.html

There was a holiday period when both were reduced by $50 (started Novemebr 20). A holiday reduction in price was also true for Sony TV's and mirrorless cameras and lenses and headphones. That price reduction, no longer in effect, had nothing to do with what was selling or not selling.

 

Again, your Ignorance has no equal. The Sony X3000 is NOT an 8.2 MP sensor. It is a 12 MP sensor, that does a Crop for Both Video and Photo. Therefore, it DOES have a Full Sensor readout, but Only for Extra Wide photos, in 12 MP size. Video is restricted to 8.2 MP. Also, the Yi 4k and 4k+ have the Sony IMX377 sensor, which is a 12MP 1/2.3" sensor, whereas the X3000 has a 1/2.5" sensor, which does a Further Crop for the 8.2 MP, that it uses for all video formats and most photo formats. Both the cameras have an f2.8 lens, so Sony arguing the X3000 is brighter is curious, especially considering the much smaller size of a smaller sensor, that they use for video.

Sorry, you are wrong once again, misled by a Sony trick in advertising. Now, read this carefully: Sony claims the stills have 12 megapixel resolution. But, in fact this is done by digital extrapolation from the 8.2 megapixel sensor. You and many naïve consumers were misled to think the sensor has 12 megapixels. As I mentioned you cannot compare the size of the sensors because the Sony sensor in the X3000 is not the same dimension as the one in the Yi. Given you are wrong on the number of megapixels, the point that the X3000 has bigger pixels is behind the reason that (for the same aperture) the Sony has better low-light performance.  

 

 Again, you state facts out of pure ignorance, followed by over-confidence. Read what I wrote above. The X3000 already does a crop to reach the 8.2 MP size, so there is no argument of whether it can do EIS. It cannot. Sony has been doing excellent OIS in their handycam range (and many other cameras) for the longest, so they obciously are great at doing it. About 'nobody doing EIS instead of BOSS ..." is another piece of your ignorant rant. It makes no sense, as is as ignorant as all your other ants above. Sony themselves have been continuously been attempting to improve EIS, because of the possibility of faster and more accurate readout for correction (though not employing or engaging all axis for stabilization), the case in point being the IMX318. 

Sony does EIS in combination with BOSS on the X3000. You did not understand my point - in the X3000 there is no choice of EIS alone, because no one would choose that over BOSS alone. You can choose BOSS + EIS.You simply do not understand what is going on. There is in fact a slight crop when "Active" mode is invoked, because it adds EIS.

Again a show of your unparalleled stupidity. If you read above, it should help you answer your own stupid questions. 

 

Again, your stupidity on full display. It's almost like you open you mouth first, and then start processing your thoughts. 
 

Again your stupidity rears it ugly head. The Yi 4k+ has the Ambarella H2 processor (SoC) that is equipped to handle 10-bit HDR and 4k @ 120. Maybe you should reduce your public rants and read more instead of attempting to post some random gibberish.

No, you are confusing camera and processor specs. The new Yi cannot shoot 4K at 120 fps, only at 60 fps (whatever the capability of the processor). And it cannot even shoot 1080 at 120 fps. It could be that it is impossible to implement the full capabilities of the chip in a tiny form-factor camera because of overheating. The X3000 processor may also be capable of 4K at 400 fps for all we know (I doubt it), but it is limited to 30 fps in the camera. As you have mentioned, overheating is an issue with small cameras (GoPro included).

You are living proof that the dodo isn't extinct, and that almost all species at some point of time could mate with almost any other species. You are a obviously a dodo and jellyfish hybrid.

I have responded to you statements about the cameras above. I hope that this time you will understand the facts better.

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Fact with no commentary:

Here are the announced original prices of the X3000:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/7768580959/sonys-new-flagship-fdr-x3000-action-cam-shoots-stabilized-4k-video

Here are today's prices:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1278151-REG/sony_fdr_x3000_action_camera.html

This links to the specs of the X3000:

http://www.sony.com/electronics/actioncam/fdr-x3000-body-kit/specifications

There it says the effective pixels for stills and video is 8.2 megapixels, Steady Shot off (because Steady Shot is EIS and uses pixels).

Thus,

1. There has been no price reduction for the X3000 since its introduction, other than the planned and limited-time Official Sony Holiday Sale that applied to almost all Sony products. I have the holiday brochure if  anyone doubts this.

2. The small number of pixels, and rectangular sensor shape specialized for video shooting, is indeed why the pixels are larger on the X3000 compared to all other action cams with similar, but more squarish, sensor sizes, and contributes to why its low-light IQ is better, as confirmed in review.

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40 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Let's stop the name calling.

I agree completely, but why not address that to the name of the person doing it, if you are going to intervene. And please distinguish between name calling (ad hominem statements), and characterizations of arguments (e.g. one may say a statement is ignorant or even the person is ignorant in making the statement or about something specific (a camera), but not the person is an ignoramus or stupid (or a "dodo"!)).

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