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IronFilm

Canon 50D ML Raw in late 2015??

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1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

I'd be much much more tempted by a BMMCC or secondhand BMPCC (I have one myself) than a 5Dmk2 for ML raw. 

well all my lenses are for full frame so it would be very expensive for me personally to get into a 2.7x crop system.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

I got my 50D for Raw shooting with anamorphics. And I am very pleased with it. Yes there are problems (CF card related ...) but pictures you get out of it are lovely (thanks raw !)

The only concern I have, is that high ISO is rubbish (compared to what I've seen on the web). There is some horizontal banding and noise pattern is horrible.
How do you get good low light shots with the 50D ?

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2 hours ago, Justin Bacle said:

The only concern I have, is that high ISO is rubbish (compared to what I've seen on the web). There is some horizontal banding and noise pattern is horrible.
How do you get good low light shots with the 50D ?

It's an eight year old sensor. Although it was one of the best APS-C sensors back then, its ISO sensitivity and dynamic range aren't up to the standards that we take for granted today.  

Compared to today's best APS-C sensors, the 50D gives you about half the ISO sensitivity, two stops less dynamic range and 2 1/2 bits less color depth. (The raw codec compensates for these shortcomings a bit, but still can't give you any image information that the sensor hasn't been able to record.) 

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-A6300-versus-Samsung-NX1-versus-Canon-EOS-50D___1072_976_272

Even the 1" sensor of the Sony RX100, with 25% the surface of APS-C, outperforms the 50D in most areas:

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-Cyber-shot-DSC-RX100-IV-versus-Canon-EOS-50D___1033_272

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3 hours ago, Justin Bacle said:

I got my 50D for Raw shooting with anamorphics. And I am very pleased with it. Yes there are problems (CF card related ...) but pictures you get out of it are lovely (thanks raw !)

The only concern I have, is that high ISO is rubbish (compared to what I've seen on the web). There is some horizontal banding and noise pattern is horrible.
How do you get good low light shots with the 50D ?

There's a guy on Vimeo called Planetarium Productions that made a lot of 50D ML Raw videos a couple years back and he was getting consistently good, clean results up to 1600 ISO.

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2 minutes ago, mercer said:

There's a guy on Vimeo called Planetarium Productions that made a lot of 50D ML Raw videos a couple years back and he was getting consistently good, clean results up to 1600 ISO.

The secret, in most cases, is using Neat Video Pro (especially its temporal noise reduction). It works wonders on any uncompressed/raw footage, especially if you use it as an OFX plugin in Resolve directly on CinemaDNG footage, with no previous transcoding.

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4 minutes ago, cantsin said:

The secret, in most cases, is using Neat Video Pro (especially its temporal noise reduction). It works wonders on any uncompressed/raw footage, especially if you use it as an OFX plugin in Resolve directly on CinemaDNG footage, with no previous transcoding.

Yeah, I need to invest in neat video one of these days, but this specific user claims to not use nr. I picked up the camera because it was a steal for the condition and extras and my only experience with ML Raw was from the eos-m and that was akin to banging my head against the wall. If I get along good with her, I may upgrade to mkiii next year.

One question I have, when I raise the ISO above 200, the screen flickers in live view, are you familiar with ML Raw 50d?

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20 hours ago, mercer said:

There's a guy on Vimeo called Planetarium Productions that made a lot of 50D ML Raw videos a couple years back and he was getting consistently good, clean results up to 1600 ISO.

Yeah I saw his videos, He was one of the first to say that low light was great on the 50D raw and give the processing in ACR required to have the same results. But at ISO 1600 i get horizontal banding which is a bit ugly. 

I managed to remove noise with After effects "grain removal" plugin, which does the job. At ISO 800 and below though the image is lovely.

I'll post a video shot with it last week-end today theoretically (spoiler alert : it looks great to me, very super-16 like)

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4 hours ago, Justin Bacle said:

Yeah I saw his videos, He was one of the first to say that low light was great on the 50D raw and give the processing in ACR required to have the same results. But at ISO 1600 i get horizontal banding which is a bit ugly. 

I managed to remove noise with After effects "grain removal" plugin, which does the job. At ISO 800 and below though the image is lovely.

I'll post a video shot with it last week-end today theoretically (spoiler alert : it looks great to me, very super-16 like)

Obviously you are shooting regular raw and not MLVs? Have you noticed in live view that the screen flickers at anything over ISO 200? It doesn't get recorded but it does flicker. I assume one of my settings are off. I need to read up on it more. How is ACR compared to Resolve? Do you have to get the full Adobe subscription to get ACR, because it seems that most of the videos I have seen that I really liked were processed with ACR instead of Resolve. Also, what program are you using to turn the files into DNG? I used RawMagic Lite and it worked brilliantly and fast, but I shot at 200 ISO and below, due to the flickering. 

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1 hour ago, mercer said:

Obviously you are shooting regular raw and not MLVs? Have you noticed in live view that the screen flickers at anything over ISO 200? It doesn't get recorded but it does flicker. I assume one of my settings are off. I need to read up on it more. How is ACR compared to Resolve? Do you have to get the full Adobe subscription to get ACR, because it seems that most of the videos I have seen that I really liked were processed with ACR instead of Resolve. Also, what program are you using to turn the files into DNG? I used RawMagic Lite and it worked brilliantly and fast, but I shot at 200 ISO and below, due to the flickering. 

Yes I do use MLV files and have a full subscription to Adobe's creative cloud (I just use Resolve to create 3D luts to match cameras with a color chart).
I use raw2cdng and am very happy with it but I'll try MLVFS next time

PS : I noticed that on my laptop (first gen i5 and non cuda gpu) I get weird results but everything is okay on my editing PC.

EDIT : I'll try 200 ISO asap, but on that situation, I had to shoot at 800ISO :s

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1 hour ago, Justin Bacle said:

Yes I do use MLV files and have a full subscription to Adobe's creative cloud (I just use Resolve to create 3D luts to match cameras with a color chart).
I use raw2cdng and am very happy with it but I'll try MLVFS next time

PS : I noticed that on my laptop (first gen i5 and non cuda gpu) I get weird results but everything is okay on my editing PC.

EDIT : I'll try 200 ISO asap, but on that situation, I had to shoot at 800ISO :s

Yeah please post something showing the lines. I won't have a chance to shoot with it again until next week, otherwise I would let you know if I am getting the same issue. I hope the files are clean up to 1600 ISO, that was one of the reasons I picked it up. Of course, I tend to never shoot over 800, I just like the option to. 

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Dug into some of my old 50D raw footage. It didn't show fixed pattern noise at high ISOs, but very strong noise nevertheless. Maybe this is dependent on the camera, perhaps also the running time (and resulting sensor heat).

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Btw, how are you guys getting along with the battery charge. The camera I bought came with 2 batteries and they seem to last about 20 minutes. It also came with the battery grip, so I figured I will buy a couple new batteries and with the grip they should last at least an hour. 

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The one I bought had an original canon battery and lasted like 10 minutes when recording :s

I bought a couple of Patona batteries. On my last shot (4 hours event, but I always shut down the camera between takes) i did not emptied one battery. So that's pretty acceptable :)

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50 minutes ago, Justin Bacle said:

The one I bought had an original canon battery and lasted like 10 minutes when recording :s

I bought a couple of Patona batteries. On my last shot (4 hours event, but I always shut down the camera between takes) i did not emptied one battery. So that's pretty acceptable :)

Oh that's not bad at all. I'll probably pick up some wasabi batteries or see how cheap the canon batteries go for now. If I can get a full hour to an hour and a half, with the camera on, using the battery grip, I'll be happy. 

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@Justin Bacle have you had any error messages where the camera freezes up on you? I had that happen to me today. And then the other issue I am having is I cannot actually set my ISO any higher than 200. If I set it higher, it changes back to 200 when I hit record, but it will still say I am on 800 or 1600 in the ML menu. It will also change my shutter speed on me too.  I have to sit down and go through the ml forum and do more research, just figured I'd see if you have experienced anything similar. 

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