Davide DB

I'm only reporting it, not agreeing with it as my own position.
The LX10 and LX100 are not to you or I or anyone else on here that owns them something that a smartphone can replace like for like of course.
But to the wider public, the ship has sailed for virtually all of them that might have bought a compact camera as they are happy enough with their phones.
Thats the position that Panasonic are taking.
Funnily enough, in the past couple of months, I have offered my daughter both my LX10 and LX100 when she has gone on trips to places that I have thought merited more than a phone but she's been "thanks but no thanks".
We are going to Tokyo at the end of next week and I've upped my loan offer to my Sigma Fp or Leica T but she is still not interested.
I don't think she is an outlier either, even though she is over 30 so she has grown up around "real cameras"  from my work, let alone what anyone 25 and under must be like.
What is the demographic at the present time for YouTubers though?
I'm guessing its nowhere near as youthful as it once was and far more affluent too.
TikTok is where the younger generation are and they have grown up without "real" cameras.
They don't mind paying €1500 for a phone that they can run their entire life on (particularly as they all pay monthly for it anyway) but dropping that amount on a camera that brings them a marginal gain as they would see it is a tough sell.
Before we even get to the aspect of whether the current financial climate makes that even viable.
The distance from capture to audience is absolutely minimal and that is something that camera manufacturers have failed to grasp and act upon.
I've said it on here before but even with the absolutely fastest cameras, highly optimised workflow with the fastest cards, readers, computers, transmission infrastructure etc then by the time I'd got an image edited and away onto newspapers and published (even online let alone the printed versions) from pitch side was glacially slow compared to the kid sat behind me on the terraces with his iPhone.
Real cameras are just not equipped to compete with that and with the dwindling attention span of the creators and the consumers it just doesn't appeal to them.
YouTube content was too long so they went to YouTube shorts and now that is too long they're on TikTok.
And its worth bearing in mind that actual "content creation" as we would describe it is a niche anyway so longer form, more thoughtful, content is now a niche within that niche.
Requests for advice about getting a camera from my family or friends that even 5-7 years ago were still pretty frequent have now dwindled to absolutely nil. This could be because of the terrible advice I gave them but that is another matter and I'm sure they would all be happy with those Sigma DP2-Ms if only they concentrated on technique a bit more 🙂 
I'm not advocating what Panasonic have done with leaving the compact market but I do understand it.
Camera manufacturers did themselves absolutely no favours in terms of compact cameras by the obsession they all shared over not giving cameras like the GX80, RX100, LX100 etc etc a microphone input.
 

I'd certainly welcome any of those although with the latter two I'm not sure Panasonic are interested in anything compact with an integrated lens any more in view of this quote from them last summer :
"We've halted developing any new models that can be replaced by a smartphone"
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Business-trends/Panasonic-Nikon-quit-developing-low-end-compact-digital-cameras#:~:text="We've halted developing any,for photography enthusiasts and professionals.
The tie in with Leica which they re-affirmed last year would probably preclude them from producing anything fixed lens wise either to not tread on the Q line.
Speaking of which....
The Leica Q3 does point the way to what one of those might have spec wise, certainly the 8K aspect.
The re-affirmation of their tie up last year as referenced in that piece above says they are jointly developing a new mirrorless camera and I'd suspect that the Q3 is the fixed lens version of that and the mark 2 versions of the S1 will be the first interchangeable lens versions of it, followed by the SL3.
 

I don't understand how it could be a firmware update.
Any paper on PDAF technology (on mirrorless/phones) explains that the sensor must have specialized photodiodes. The number varies with the accuracy and speed of the autofocus.

Yes please. It’s just some tech improvements I’d like, but the body is 👌
Can’t disagree with that! But then it is with so many Japanese companies!
I’m all for 4/3 re-adopting the ‘micro’ tag…and maybe, just maybe, it will happen with OM System, but I think it would take a small miracle now with old Panny Boy. I think they have probably gone too far down the road now in 2 areas.
1. More focused on FF, ie, less focused on 4/3.
2. The market has to be shrinking for the format (4/3) surely so why would you invest?
GH6 took sooooo long to arrive, it was not quite DOA, but the camera marketplace had moved along quite a bit.
The G9ii has been largely praised by The Usual Suspects, but unless you needed a smaller system, honestly, next to an S5ii, would you?
Maybe for someone with the lenses, but most I am pretty sure would pick up the full frame system for basically the same money.
My favourite filming combo right now is the S5ii with Smallrig cage, side handle, Rode Micro or WG, Sigma 28-70mm f2.8
As someone who shoots mostly 4K 50p, it’s a relatively lightweight *cinematic* 42-105mm FF equivalent beast shooting log for the kind of run & gun event work I do. Right now, nothing I’d rather be using.
Stills, now that is another matter. I don’t quite hate it for stills, just quietly despise it to the point I use my S1H for photography instead.

Possibly was a cost cutting thing, but this doesn't make the situation any better, especially given the $1899 G9 II vs $1999 full frame S5 II has not resulted in much of the cost saving being passed onto Micro Four Thirds users.
It has to be different.
If they need to charge $2k for a camera body then the micro Leica M style idea would do it for me because it's different.
When full frame has cannibalised your purpose, you have to try harder to be unique, rather than throwing in the towel and being the same but with a smaller sensor.

My thoughts on it.
I am pretty sure this is the end of Micro Four Thirds.
https://www.eoshd.com/news/hannibal-lumix-why-panasonic-have-lost-the-plot-over-micro-four-thirds/

IIRC, around the time of the GH6 release (18 months ago), there was live stream/press discussion with some senior Panasonic people, where one of them basically said that including PDAF hardware on the sensor would have delayed the sensor development too much (for the GH6 timescale). 
So my take on it is the sensor in the G9ii is effectively the 'fully developed' version of it, and the GH6 has an intermediate version without the PDAF hardware capability. I think it would have been commercially crazy to not launch the GH6 with PDAF if they could have - they'd have sold more in the intervening months at higher street prices.
We'll have to wait and see, but I think there just has to be a GH6ii or GH7 soon.

That is precisely the point I'm making though.
If the GH6 is the same as the G9mkii then it too will also have them but they are not being used by the AF system at this time but it doesn't preclude them being used in the future.
As unlikely as it may seem for them to release a camera (GH6) that has the capability that everyone wanted but not enable it immediately and then release a new camera with the same sensor but enable it in that one is not beyond the bounds of possibility.
Adding it as a €200 upgrade to the GH6 further down the line (and when they'e had more time to perfect it than when the GH6 was launched), why not ?
Its completely possible and would make sense for them and the customer.
If it is the same sensor, meaning that it was in the GH6 first.
Which, as I said, from what I've read it isn't.

Panasonic announcing PDAF in a firmware update for the GH6 next month like this.

Nobody cares but from a underwater video operator POV (mine 😁) Pana budget choice of reusing the same body could be a good one. 
It happens once in a blue moon that two camera share the same body and control layout and this seems to be the case.
Nauticam has already a reasonably priced uw housing for the S5 II (3350€ vs 4050€ of GH6)and this seems to be fully compatible.

To be seen the 120mm port diameter for the FF lens.
https://www.nauticam.com/collections/panasonic-mirrorless-housings/products/s5ii-underwater-housing-for-panasonic-lumix-s5ii-x-camera
 

Nobody cares but from a underwater video operator POV (mine 😁) Pana budget choice of reusing the same body could be a good one. 
It happens once in a blue moon that two camera share the same body and control layout and this seems to be the case.
Nauticam has already a reasonably priced uw housing for the S5 II (3350€ vs 4050€ of GH6)and this seems to be fully compatible.

To be seen the 120mm port diameter for the FF lens.
https://www.nauticam.com/collections/panasonic-mirrorless-housings/products/s5ii-underwater-housing-for-panasonic-lumix-s5ii-x-camera
 

I read a lot of this post and here are my two cents... cool camera... too expensive... too big/ugly.
I briefly used a GH6 and although it was rather utilitarian and not small... the body felt good in the hands and the dual hinged screen was amazing. The extra depth for the fan, didn't seem awkward. The only qualm I had with the camera, which was big, was noise in the midtones. I wish I had more time with the camera because I think there may have been a work around if I kept testing, but unfortunately I just didn't have the time to dissect it. I may give it another go because having internal ProRes and amazing IBIS was such a great combo for my needs...
It felt like the closest thing to a Cinecorder (another term coined by @BTM_Pix ) since my time with the FZ2500. The GH6, in my opinion, is the most underrated camera to come out in the past few years.
The G9ii seems cool too... when the price drops.

About size: if I work with still / video, the G9II will not be a problem at all. But as an amateur, using on the streets or travelling - yep, attracts attention.

And about form factor (and since it would need a completely new retooling): big attracts attention, too small is bad to hold. Ideal: big grip with small body. Since small cameras with larger grips always get complaints about "pinky" finger without support, and since I agree that thickness of the camera does not attract attention and almost nobody complains about it...why not make the Sigma Quattro H style the other way around?


Make the grip tall, and the body smaller. The battery could be slimmer and taller, making room for components  / IBIS / EVF on the body. The camera part that is "seen" on hand would be small.

One problem: would not stand up by itself on a table. Just make a sliding "feet" on the opposing side of the grip - it even could be double duty as a port cover.

Yes I was too dramatic and I know you like to play devil's advocate 😉 but the substance of the argument does not change:
what is the point of having an M43 sensor inside a full frame body?

Certainly a huge saving in design and production costs (which unfortunately will not be passed on to the end customer). But what many are saying is that the route taken so far takes away a lot of the appeal of the M43 system.
 

 

The a1 has by and large flown under the radar so its diminishing price on the used market does make it an interesting proposition a bit down the road to do a poor man's 10% of the price / 90% of the image version of the Burano with one.
Need a name though.
Base it on the Venice* obviously, so it has to be something with lots of canals.
But a bit more rough and ready to reflect the price.
And a bit more northern for the dourness and attitude.
Right, the Birmingham it is then.

 
* Fun fact is that Birmingham is one of the gazillion places referred to as the Venice of the North but in actual fact it should be that Venice is called the Birmingham of the South as Birmingham actually has more miles of canals. All built by order of The Peaky Fucking Blinders presumably.

And about size: my last mft camera (and the best, loved it) and my current APS-C camera.

The one on the right have 6.2k open gate 10-bit 4:2:2, in H265 or All-I. 4k60 with a 1.1x crop. 1080p120 fps (did not count the 240fps option because is crap), a huge battery, and PDAF (in fact, the AF works much better than I expected, after the last firmware update).

Lenses? Yep, the Fuji branded ones are bigger, but not so much. And a Sigma 18-50 f/2.8 is the same size of the Panasonic 12-35 f/2.8, even being made for a larger sensor - yep, don't have OIS, but IBIS takes good care of it, and is even much cheaper. The Nocticrons are small, too.
 
MFT should be the perfect EDC / travel cameras. Newer lenses should take the Sigma zoom route - ditch the OIS and make a 12-35 f/1.8, or a smaller 2.8. Compact f/3.5 zooms. Pancake primes. Make them cool - just look the X100v lesson.

But they gone in the opposite direction. 

So my two cents and a dime and 1798.88 Euros on the new kid on the block and a bit of a fan song to the M43 system, not overpowering all you other fans of course.:) So here in all modesty:
M43 has the largest variety of camera bodies, with some of the prettiest cameras on the planet. I imagine prices rising for some of them like the GX1 has been lately. Same with the two GM cameras. Others prices are sinking, becoming super affordable. Saw a used GH5 for 400 Eu!
To me, M43 would be the most attractive video system if they had the image of the GH6 combined with the high resolving soft look of the GH5 II. So for now my S1H has to offer me that. Codecs, framerates, AF are already a winner on the G9 II. If it fullfills the promise of combining the image quality of a GH5 II and GH6, I will get one some time next year unless there are some streaking or other oddities showing.
In the video department this camera might smoke all the APSC models regarding overall image quality, frame rates, usuability, battery life and heat management. It surely has some of the best and most robust codecs in the industry on board, both in flavors of All Intra and Long Gop. If HD is of perfect quality, this could be a HD Prores cinema dream machine as well. Let the reviews coming. The ones from slashcam and Richard Wong show a very interesting beast of a video monster machine. Richard Wongs OOC Jpegs showcased some impressve colors as well!
Panasonic has awakened the Godzilla once again after the inferno that the GH4 caused in the Dslm video market and the thunderstorm that was the GH5! Full frame step aside, your overheated performance and no light obsession is put to ridicule by the towering new kid on the block, the powerful Godzilla Lumix G9 mighty Mark II!😊

You have enough material for a spicy new episode on youtube 😉
 

That 20mm Lumix pancake was a gem. It isn't all about size of course, but about differentiating your toolset from the others. There's a market for all sorts if it makes sense. Shoehorning a M43 mount onto an S5 II speaks of a lack of ideas or clear differentiation.
A competitor like Panasonic on 4-5% market share vs Canon at 45% needs those unique selling points. They can't just copy Canon and Sony.
It all goes to show that Panasonic have completely lost sight of what made Micro Four Thirds special.
It's one thing for the S5 II to be full frame with large lenses, and a body that isn't nearly as compact as the full frame cameras I've pictured above alongside!
It can get away with it because insanely good value for money is on offer, and you're getting the largest possible sensor for the money and best image quality. Lacking in the charm department though.
Let's take a look back through memory lane to when Panasonic was one of the most creative and differentiated manufacturers vs the boring samey DSLRs.

This thing was a true one off, a thing of beauty and speaks volumes about Japanese design culture.
It does not kowtoe to the Americans in the slightest bit.
Once LUMIX in the US realised their customers just want to turn up in front of a client with the most "PRO" and biggest intimidating piece of kit imaginable (think RED), all that went out the window.
You have to partially blame the customer.
People do not value the more interesting designs in significant enough numbers, at least not in the same volume as they value BIG PRO DICK SWINGING COMPETITIONS
I could think of a GAZILLION designs of camera that GH6 sensor would be more at home in and more interesting in.
At least Fujifilm continue to stick to their guns and bring out systems that make sense.
Hell, they even have a medium format PANCAKE!
I absolutely love the design of the GFX 100 II and that thing is tiny compared to what medium format used to be or a large format cinema camera.
If you're going to go DSLR size then it has to either be all out like the GFX 100 II or a Sony a1, or good value for money with sensible compromises.
What I don't get with Panasonic though is a sense of culture in their products any more. The S5 body was never that well designed in the first place or satisfying to pick up. It felt like the team behind the G100 got a promotion.

That thing is basically a Canon G5X knock off in the design and ergonomics department.
It has no soul.
You only see the abyss when you look at it. The capitulation of Micro Four Thirds as a system.
When I look at the S5 II and G9 II I see a well meaning intention and to deliver to a certain price.
It is by no means a bad deal, but what happened culturally at Panasonic to go from a GH1 or LC1 to a fucking G100!?

90% of customers do not care about overheating. Otherwise GoPro would have gone out of business five years ago. 
 
 

will be excluded from having new units previewed and condemned to oblivion and youtuber hell 🙂

 

90% of customers do not care about overheating. Otherwise GoPro would have gone out of business five years ago. 
 
 

They seem to have got into the way of thinking that crop sensor = cut price version of full frame, rather than having them offer portability. The lenses are also getting too big as well!
They showed all the way back in 2014 that a Micro Four Thirds sensor could go in something as small as a GM5 or LX100.
Since then, it's all about capitulating to the American market which doesn't really go for small cameras.
The GH1 and GH2 were typically Japanese and quirky, lovely to use. Then the American Panasonic team got involved and we got the stale GH3.
As well as a new GX80 with latest gubbins and a new LX100 I'd love for Panasonic to give us their version of a Leica Q.
Sony has the RX1.
Panasonic with full frame camera the size of a deck of cards would be great, but their absolutely-not-a-cartel L2 partnership probably puts paid to that!

To quote old Ben Kenobi, these are not the Lumix cameras I am looking for.

That is where I'm going with this to be honest and, despite all the hand wringing on here about it, I don't think the motivation for change will come until the 10% become the 90%.
Maybe the EU will come galloping (or more likely sashaying considering the pace they work at) to the rescue with a standard rating system for cameras denoting the number of overheating shutdowns per hour.
Call it the Sum of Heat Induced Terminations and measure it on a 1-10 scale with the higher number obviously being the worst.
It would offer more clarity and might actually shame them into doing something about it.
"So, Mr Sony, regarding overheating, what is the SHIT rating for this new camera ?"
"Oh, its very SHIT indeed."