TomTheDP

Well my opinion is that RED rushed their products to the Market. If you look at the image from an Alexa Classic, which came out around 2011 same time as the Scarlet, it's image aside from resolution is pretty much identical to the more recent Alexa LF. If you compare the RED Scarlet to the most recent RED you can't say the same thing. Red has continually put completely different sensors in next gen cameras since the start. The image pipeline from RED has also changed. The older RED cameras are known for being pretty dang accurate in Daylight but not so much tungsten. It improved with the 6K epic dragon sensor. I really think they have nailed it with the Komodo. I compared all three cameras Epic Dragon, Komodo and the Alexa Classic. The Komodo was pretty much identical, the Drgaon looked quite a bit different. I mean that was part of the appeal of REDRAW, you can get any look you want. It was meant to be something you had to fiddle with in post. The ARRI look has been known to be life like, what you see is what you get. Can't say the same for RED, at least in the past. Cameras in general are much more color accurate now though. I was really shocked how easily the Sigma FP matched to the Alexa. The gap is closing in on ARRI. That said older RED cameras definitely have an appeal. The name still stands high in film circles and there are a lot of advantages to a camera designed for cinema use. It pisses me off incredibly that RED has their RAW patent, but you can't get around that 16 bit REDraw is a joy to work with.

4k at 60p would really be something.

I have owned the Scarlet, the dynamic range is ok, color science was ok. The Epic Dragon 6k sensor is better but the color science is still a bit off. The Komodo is right next to ARRI color science wise but dynamic range isn't there. Raptor has the color science spot on and the dynamic range is there too. It keeps the information in the shadows vs in the highlights like ARRI. I assume the Helium and Monstro image are pretty nice but I have never worked with them. The dynamic range on an A7S3 or S1H in RAW would be greater than a Scarlet, with way better light sensitivity. But you have to deal with a poor HDMI output(poor latency, less sturdy, not accurate rec709 image). Of course RED has a patent on the best codec available so that puts them up pretty high even on their 10 year old models.

I think it's more about ergonomics than the image tbh.

Yeah the URSA 12k is not dual gain as far as I know. It has that unique full RGB sensor which may give it an edge in overall look. Kind of like CCD sensors I guess.

Yeah the Ursa takes two 11bit signals while ALEV is taking two 14 bit signals. The URSA doesn't have the highlight retention of an Alexa and the shadows suffer from fixed noise pattern (noticeable when shooting 1600 in dim conditions). This was apparently less of a problem on the G2 though. Still pretty respectable dynamic range.

All RED cameras have a kind of different look IMO. The Scarlet Dragon is nice though not really accurate especially under tungsten. It's a nice look though and redraw is super easy to work with.

Yeah the Pocket 6k and 4k are dual iso. The old pocket and the Ursa 4.6k models are dual gain cameras though.

I'm pretty sure all the older BM cameras including the Ursa have a dual gain sensor.

The GH6 really does seem to handle shadows well, the color holds up.

Just to clarify I have said the GH6 is probably the ultimate run and gun camera. Panasonic always packs in a ton of features at an at least decent price point.

I am not trying to shut down M43. I do think Panasonic should implement internal RAW though. Why not have DNG as an option? They should develop their own raw like Nikon imo. I am sure that is coming. The GH7 or maybe MK2 might be something I would buy. I have complaints about every camera on the market right now, if I didn't I wouldn't have sold my Panasonic S1. The sigma FP definitely has a laundry list of things wrong with it. Maybe I am just whining over nothing but a major downside of the Pocket is the lack of mobility. The GH6 solves this completely as their cameras always have, but if you like RAW adding in an external recorder and batteries adds a lot of bulk. Internal RAW would really put the GH6 in a nice spot. I guess it may be something they can add via firmware. I do love prores. As to prores vs H265/H264 I really do think how its processed is more important than anything but I usually trust prores more. For me the biggest advantage is it runs soooo much better when editing. Even on the M1 chip H265 and 10 bit H264 is a pain. M43 DOF can be really nice no doubt. I do love my ALEXA and for my own personal work it would be my go to camera along with an F35(Honestly I think I like the F35 image more). However when working on indie movies which is huge in Detroit right now, something smaller is easier. The way I shoot the Classic works great, but most directors just want everything and the moon with it. I am very tempted to get a Komodo at this point as it sits between being workable in low budget indie as well as higher end productions.

It's got a lot of nice features it's just not the same as when the GH5 came out and it was the only hybrid camera doing 4k 10 bit.

I misread the GH6 price as $2700, $2000 isn't as bad. The S1 has all the things you mentioned besides prores though, it's not unique to M43 anymore.

It is almost $3000, I'd be close to getting an A7S3 for just a bit more used. The BM pocket is $1000 and has internal RAW and prores. I get the Pana is a hybrid camera but why no internal RAW or auto focus? If I need IBIS I can just use the S1 which is almost half the price of the GH6 used, only thing really missing is prores and 4k 120p. You are right full frame has pretty much caught up but M43 isn't pushing enough to stay ahead IMO. I bought the GH5 for that exact reason and its the same reasons I am not getting a GH6, combined with the price tag of course. Everyone will get that camera that works for them but Panasonic has not been pleasing me with their offerings aside from the S1. I am excited to see what their next full frame offering will be.

Camera sales are tanking in general. M43 has it's place but will it become so niche that it's not even worth investing in, for camera companies? Sony hasn't done any M43 cameras, they could probably have an edge over Panasonic with their auto focus. But they probably think the market is too small or dying in general. If companies making M43 cameras had their shit together more I don't think there would be as much of an issue. Panasonic would kill the vlogging market with state of the art auto focus and their IBIS but time and time again they miss the opportunity. The M43 P4K is still very relevant. But Blackmagic almost perfectly catered to their audience at the lowest price point possible. I really like the GH6 but the Sigma FP is smaller, has internal RAW and a much larger sensor. Same reason I didn't buy a Fuji. The XT3 was cutting edge but they haven't improved since. No RAW, no 4k 120p, no full HDMI. It's a smaller sensor shouldn't it be more featured than full frame counterparts? I feel the innovation is really lacking with M43 Panasonic and Fuji, also Sony has put no effort into their S35 line up, while their cutting edge full frame stuff has gotten really expensive.

Anyone got any suggestions for tiny travel lenses? Looking for something I can put on my Sigma FP that doesn't make it not "pocketable". I was looking at the helios 33 which is 35mm f2 (good focal length imo) but it only covers S35 🥲

Meant to say I have not seen it. Though I confusing streaking with noise banding which aren't the same thing. The worst camera I have noticed streaking on is the C300 MK2, to the point where I probably wouldn't use it. I shot a window situation like shown in that video above with the Sigma FP and didn't see any streaking though.

Oddly I have seen streaking with RAW on the S1 / S1h

Here is the test I did. I can't remember which was 8 and which was 10 bit as they look almost identical. The 12 bit file is very apparent though, leagues better. This was 100 ISO raised 5 stops in the resolve RAW panel. I used the BM color space.

I suspected that. 8 bit and 10 bit have banding in the shadows where that isn't present with 12 bit. I'd use 10 bit only for more controlled situations. In the test I did 8 bit and 10 bit looked about the same in terms of banding. It was a rather extreme test however.

I have always preferred seeing over/under tests. Highlight retention is pretty easy to judge but when it comes to shadows its very subject IMO.

Did some pretty heavy dynamic range tests today. Shooting into the sun. The Sigma FP handled it like a champ. I am honestly slightly surprised how close it is the the Alexa with a bit of work. The reality is you don't actually need the Alexa's dynamic range that often. I had a scene recently where I exposed for the subject and there was a bright window in a portion of the shot. The Alexa retained the info in the window but in post you have to choose between keeping that window detail or keeping the subject nicely exposed. At the end of the day you have to light your scene. That said there is something great about ARRI footage and how it just looks nice as soon as you throw on the 709 lut. I can also underexpose or overexpose the ARRI to hell and back and it still is usable. I shot both cams at native ISO and F8 indoors during the day. The ARRI was very noisy and had a a green tint, the Sigma completely fell about ugliest looking image you could imagine with no hope of NR repair. The Alexa footage might have been able to be cleaned up with NR but at the worst it looks like it could be a stylistic choice, not the same with the FP. That is dealing in extremes though. But one thing you can't ignore is that if you are in a dark situation you can just bump up to 3200 iso or beyond with the Sigma FP and get a cleaner image than you could off the Alexa. Only thing missing on the FP is 4k 48p, but hard to complain for the price. Also I hope that Micro hdmi holds up, using the onboard LCD in sunlight is close to impossible.

IBIS has really allowed the use of tiny handheld cameras to get smooth looking footage. Looks like you are carrying a big ass camera, well somewhat. There are always caveats to these shortcuts but they can be incredibly useful. I don't think a good shoulder mounted camera can be replaced for certain applications. It is nice having something that you can throw up on the shoulder super easily without rigging it to high heaven. That said with the amount of steady movements directors tend to demand slider, dolly, gimbal, steadicam, or just straight up handheld(which looks different than shoulder, its lower angle) a lighter camera comes in clutch and is almost essential to at least have around as a B-cam. I really hate rigging but its the way of now. I gotta build a rig for the tiny Sigma I just got. The one thing that truly needs to be a no 1 feature on every cameras is internal ND.

This guy's channel is interesting. Always cool to hear a perspective from someone who is directing the biggest of films but also does micro indie projects.