MrSMW

Fuji X-S20 used Excellent condition (MBP) plus new Tamron 17-70mm f2.8 (28-105 equivalent) comes in on budget and spec?

How long is your piece of string? 😜 70mm (everything in FF terms) is a bit short for me in terms of a 'portrait' focal length other than perhaps indoors when space may be tight, otherwise outdoors I prefer anything from the trad 85 (though been using a 90 recently as my 'short' telephoto) through to 150mm. I didn't say I had a 35-150 though, just that it is my 'ideal focal range' for pretty much anything and everything outdoors. Pretty much bang on focal range for me for portraits outdoors, specifically couples at weddings, whether full length at a distance, or closer up. I like compression and will always pick a longer lens and work further away than a wider lens and work closer, if that option exists. For portraits, not a fan, - too far from the subject to communicate properly or too tight if I can. I am indeed in the process of moving from 70-200mm f4 over to 70-180mm f2.8 and from Lumix to Nikon/Tamron in this regard because on the lens side, it's a 1 stop faster, more shallow depth of field in a sharper, smaller (not much) and lighter (again, not by much) unit and as I have no real need for anything over 150mm other than very occasionally, the 70-180 works better for me. A weightless 28-200mm f2.8 would be glued on providing it did not extend when zooming like an excited donkey. I prefer non-extending zoom lenses, but they are quite rare. The Lumix 70-200 f4 is so beats the Tamron 70-180 in that regard, but the Tamron extended zoom length is not too obnoxious and the other benefits outweigh this small negative. But back to your weightless zoom otherwise, I can't see how I'd really use it any differently to having a 35-150 or a 70-180 or a 70-200, ie, my time above 150mm is limited. I would prefer NOT to have such a massive range in a single lens, because I prefer primes. I'm at heart a prime shooter for whom zooms make more sense so rarely shoot at anything but the extreme ends. The set up I am working towards with stills is; 20-40 but to me, it's 20 or 40, - there is nothing in between. It's simply 2 primes in one lens. I NEVER shoot anything between. Same as the 16-24 it replaced, it was always 16 or 24, end of. My 40mm f2 is my 'everything candid' lens because for me it is the perfect focal length. It's welded on to my Zf and is essentially a fixed lens point and shoot other than in an extreme emergency when I could stick on any compatible lens. My third and final lens is the 70-180, so it's a 70 and a 180. I could shoot it at anything in between and without wishing to sound like a complete moron, simple won't and it's a 70 (indoors) and a 70 or 180 outdoors. So my focal length set up = 20, 40, 70, 180 and these 4 focal lengths cover all my bases. I wouldn't cry if the 180 was 150, - I could live with that, but 180 has it's uses so is my '150' if that makes sense because that is the extreme end of that particular lens and I don't adhere to using zooms as twin lens primes to be in any way pedantic, never mind an arse, but because it's how I work and see things. A 28-300 would have zero use to me. Yes if I went on a safari I might want something longer and if I could only take one body and one lens, I might rent something. And if I shot sports, I'd buy something, but we're talking what I would personally do or use and think, not necessarily what anyone else might. This is why I really like Canon's 28-70 f2 and 24-105 f2.8 lenses because one is the perfect indoor lens for me (size & weight aside, but if I have to compromise anywhere, this is where I would) and the other a near perfect outdoor option...except 35-150 as in the Tamron would be better as a focal range, but I don't much care for the extending zoom and variable aperture. If someone was to make me that 'best possible real world' zoom, I reckon I could live with a 40-120mm f2.8 with some kind of hard stop mechanism that meant it cld be used as a 40/80/120. Take my money. I'd need something wider (such as my 20-40) but would trade the lack of that longer end for more megapixels and a bit of cropping. Personally, I like compression. Obviously the longer the focal length, the more potential there is for compression depending on all the usual caveats etc, but IMO, it's not too extreme 100-200, whereas with using say wide angle lenses for portraits, is just to wacky and unnatural to my eye. In fact portraits with anything wider than 28mm is not to my taste unless it's full length. Above 150, as above, for me, beginning to lose some contact/direction with the subject. Conclusion. As with all these things, opinions will vary, there is no right or wrong, only what works for you, for me or for someone else, which is often not the same thing. In fact whatever I do is rarely what anyone else, never mind the mainstream is doing. For me that is partly deliberate but mainly, 'just because'. They don't make boxes in my shape.

I think mine and many others, is the dream ‘do it all’ lens which would have as big a range as possible and the widest constant aperture possible, but without being too big or heavy. The closest to that ideal right now for me would be: FF = Canon 28-70 f2 and 28-105 f2.8 plus Tamron 35-150 f2-2.8 APSC = Fuji 16-55 f2.8 and 50-140 f2.8 M4/3 = Lumix 10-25 f1.7 and 25-50 f1.7 Focal ranges are quite personal/dependant on individual needs but for me these are: Indoor, 20-70 and outdoor 35-150. Funnily enough, lenses with those specific focal lengths exist! For Sony and Nikon users at least… My preferred candid focal length is 40mm. It’s just a sweet spot to me that isn’t quite as wide as 35 and not as tight as 50 can sometimes be. But specifically for M4/3, I would struggle to see past that Lumix f1.7 pairing despite their relavent weight to the format. On a G9ii, easy choice for me. On a GX85, maybe not. When it comes to M4/3 glass, I have always preferred the Olympus offerings. Their f1.2 ‘pro’ primes especially. As a one lens to do it all though, I’d struggle to see past the 12-40mm f2.8, the most recent version. Had that on the OM-1 that I had for a short time and other than say shooting sports or going on safari, for which a longer lens would be required, the FF equivalent of 24-80mm with a constant aperture of f2.8 is great for landscapes and people. It’s the one lens that along with Fujis 16-55 (24-83 equivalent) has FF beat IMO, because the ‘traditional’ 24-70mm f2.8 is just a bit short at the long end. Unless you have a lot of megapixels and can crop, but that is another story…and personally I like to see in frame the end result without cropping. That OM-1 paired with the 12-40mm f2.8 and the 75mm f1.7, for me would be the ultimate travel camera combo. I could make an argument for myself for any sized sensor set up and happily shoot with any of them from M4/3 to medium format. For my work though, I am uncomfortable (for want of a better term) with anything other than FF.

I’m a bit undecided now after more musing… There are 2 principle options open to me with one third but unlikely one… Contender 01 = S1H + 70-200 f4 S5ii + 28-70 f2.8 Zf + 40 f2 Z8 + 20-40 f2.8 + 70-180 f2.8 Contender 02 = Z6iii + 28-75 f2.8 Zf + 40 f2 Z9 + 20-40 f2.8 + 70-180 f2.8 Contender 03 = S1H + 70-200 f4 S5ii + 28-70 f2.8 S2R + Samyang 35-150 f2/2.8 Summary = Option 01 = the most comprehensive set up with 2 separate video units and 2 photo units and is the cheapest in that I have everything except for the Z8. It also has the most compact units in the hand. Option 02 = a more compact overall set up with cross compatibility between all bodies and lenses within one system with all 3 units designated ‘hybrid’. Cost is not much difference as the sale of 4x L Mount items will make up the difference financially compared with Option 01. The Z9 component works ‘better’ than the Z8 in the same role, albeit at the expense of size & weight. This option also requires the Z6iii to come into existence… Option 03 = the wild card. An all L Mount option and as I have repeatedly stated, I am not trying to move away from L Mount for the sake of moving and love the results I have been getting. It’s just been how I need to go about getting those results, mainly due to glass, that have been a source of frustration, but the camera side, I would rather stick with them if there was a way. And there is a way. Maybe… S2R (or H) plus that Samyang 35-150. Neither officially exist in L Mount but likely will. In time for the start of my ‘24 season, unlikely I think and realistically that puts or keeps, Option 01 as my most likely direction. I’ve come down to the conclusion that by the narrowest of margins, I prefer the Z9, but would make that choice of Z8 or Z9 based on the above. So basically waiting during this off season to see what Nikon do with any Z6iii and Lumix do with any ‘S2’ plus whether Samyang make that 35-150 in L Mount. Otherwise know exactly what direction I will be taking! Kinda… 🤪

I still think full frame. I think an S5ii hi res model is not, or at least less likely and the GH6 too recent? But Lumix badly NEED a replacement for the pro S line. Nikon has Z8 and Z9, Canon R3 with R1 and probably R5ii, Sony A7RV, A1, A9iiiiiiiiii etc… Has to be.

Standard M1 and the massive jump in processing was between the desktop and the M2. I didn’t see much difference between the desktop and M1 for most things. Possibly also differences in software being more streamlined? I don’t know and am not really interested in techy things as in ‘how’, but rather just that it does. And my M2 does!

Texas possibly? Otherwise my money is on a next gen S1/R/H.

5k? It's not even 6, never mind 8k 😜

Sounds like every wedding I have been to for the last 4-5 years…which has been circa 100+ (would have been more if it wasn’t for covid). EXACTLY, including that 60+ gent fumbling with his archaic DSLR and that Fuji hipster couple 😂

Plays a part as in the whole ‘photographer/history/kudos’ thing/myth. Plus in every side by side comparison I have seen, the results from the Hassie are ‘better’. It’s purely speculative hypothetical though as lottery win aside, I am going to own neither. Well actually, maybe the Hassie in 2-3 years when any investment would be sub 50% of what it is now… But that is not a plan, just one of many possibilities.

I’d really like one for stills but would rather have the Hassie X2D I will own neither due to 💰 As in lack thereof. MPB have one at ‘only’ 7.5k euros, but then lenses… I’m struggling a bit with Z8 and Z9 prices so never mind these medium format beasts. The GFX could be a compromise and meet in the middle, but I think I’ll stick with full frame.

GH7 or S1 replacement for sure. I hope it’s the latter because it’s far more interesting. To me anyway 😉

Maybe it’s a Lumix thing then… C = Custom Super easy to flip between any 5 custom settings with C1 & C2 I have set for indoor and outdoor stills and then 3 options with C3 for video.

I do think battery life is a little overrated on-line. In my experience, all the cameras I have owned have well exceeded the official numbers. In the case of my Fuji cameras, between 2-3x. The Lumix S5ii's have been about the same but the bigger battery cameras such as the S1R/S1H, waaaaaaay more life. I don't think I have ever had to change a battery on an S1R/S1H on a full day's shoot except either very rarely or as a precaution later on. Re. The Z8, does it have C1-3 dial? The Z9 I think does and this swings me in that direction as do the ergos and battery life. What may clinch it for me is twin CF Express because I happen to have 2x 256GB Prograde cards just kicking around since selling my S1R's. Plus the Z9 is just a bit more 'pro' than the Z8 so based on having a dinky (ish) faux vintage camera in the Zf, I'm back in the camp of Z9 as my 'big boy' unit and with no glass heavier than 900g, that makes for a sub 2.3kg unit max which itself though 300g over my 'ideal', is still 500g under what wha I have been using all year.

I ‘traded’ (off-loaded to the wife) my M1 14” at the beginning of this year for an M2 Max with 64GB ram 16” because the old one was barely faster than my 7 year old gaming desktop PC. A good test was batch editing a typical wedding of say 700 raw files through DXO PureRaw tidying up noise and detail. Overnight on my PC, around 8-10 hours? Same thing failed every time I tried it on the M1 chip MacBook. With this year’s M2, 40 minutes maybe? It has transformed my workflow and as someone who spends a lot of time working away from home Apr-Sep, it’s been brilliant. I use it with 3 external SSD. One for photo, one for video, one (armoured) backup for both. My only wishes were it was slightly less laggy for video editing because yup, there is some (but that may be me not having it set up right?) and I wish the screen was bigger than 16”, but as an all in one, photo and editing machine, at home at the dining room table, or in the office or in the motorhome, it’s a great/essential tool for sure.

Something I keep going back to… Z8 or Z9 either way, it’s just a question of trading smaller/lighter/cheaper, for better handling, albeit at the expense of size & weight, plus better battery life and cooling (not that I am much bothered with the latter for my needs) and costs more…

Tinky Winky asks Totoro to hold his/her/their beer.

Indeed. I know some like to be able to add or remove a battery grip, but if there is a model with a built in, I generally prefer it. The Z8 with the battery grip just looks big and clunky and is heavier and less streamlined than the Z9 for sure! I am currently debating myself whether to pull the trigger on a Z8 now or wait until Jan...

Which is not a mirrorless hybrid so not even in the conversation. The Z9 is a MUCH better platform for those lens selections and the OP’s list of requirements and needs. Personally speaking, if only considering my own needs and if I was looking at a 2 body set up and only a 2 body set up and Nikon, hands down the Z9. But as someone who has settled on a 3 body approach (if I do go fully Nikon), based on my needs and lens choices, just a single Z8 can be one of my workhorses as part of a triumvirate (had to look up the spelling of that) of: Z8 40% of my stills work + 10% of my video needs Z6iii (assuming one appears before end of March ‘24) 0% stills and 80% video Zf faux vintage camera, 60% stills plus 10% video If I did my sums correctly, the above accounts for 100% of my stills work and 100% of my video. Ballpark figures but more or less correct.

All those wideos gone, but at least Kai and Lok live on independently elsewhere...

Tell me about it. I absolutely hate Nov-March because it is nearly impossible to practice shoot anything that I do, especially if wanting to test anything new. It’s almost impossible to ‘practice shoot’ weddings anyway for a variety of reasons. Even the odd sunny Winter day isn’t the same because it’s a different quality and angle of light plus the background colours are all different plus people’s skin tones are not the same. Always been a problem… Unless I swap hemispheres every solstice…

If you are paying 💰 sure, but actually, nah, as a set up, too big, too heavy and I don’t need 4 Nikon cameras. All I need is my faux vintage camera, a single Z8 and if flipping entirely over to Nikon for everything, then a single Z6iii. And if a Z6iii is not available and in my hands by end of March 2024, then I will be sticking with my L Mount set up for all things video. And what if Lumix pop out an S2H or S2R in the meantime? It won’t make any difference. Maybe one day down the line, but at least not in 2024 because it’s lens choices that are primarily driving my decisions. L Mount has great glass, but not for the way I work. Not without big compromise and that’s what I am sick to death of, - trying to work around it and being continually frustrated all season long. Brand affiliation is way down my list of important factors. This is a case of which tools are best suited to my specific need within a specific budget. Right now, there are two options. I’d rather go all in with one single brand (in my case single camera brand Nikon and adapted lenses from Tamron) but 99% as happy to stick with a Lumix/Sigma plus Nikon/Tamron for 2024.

👍

Yes, red box around the frame and you can set up a tally light also. Re. the on/off switch, - just goes to show we all have different preferences. I like where it is on the S1H and hated where it was on the S1R! I wish I could go to a 3 identical body set up for the muscle memory...but I doubt it will ever happen for me now as my next set up will either be 3 different or 4 different bodies...but hey ho 🤪

Well in that case, Options 3&4 combined… Z8 for 24-70 and primes paired with a Z9 for the bigger zoom lenses, or the 24-70 if using a prime on the Z8. It’s kind of where I have gone for stills which is having the relatively small & light Zf as my ‘candid’ workhorse paired with the 40mm f2 basically as a fixed lens point and shoot, plus having the Z8 as the platform for more serious work (landscapes, buildings, portraits etc) with a wide zoom and a long zoom. A kind of ‘lite’ version of what you might do with a Z8/9 combo. Could I use it for video also? Yes, easily, but needs a third body & lens for how I work and I’m not sure if I wish to commit to that at this time. My point being that in your case, if you make the Z9 your A unit and the Z8 your B, it should eliminate, or at least massively reduce any battery life or overheating concerns? Personally, I’m not worried about overheating on the Z8. I’ve seen the tests etc but I’ve used much smaller cameras with much shorter recording times (such as Sony RX100v and ZV1) so have a ballpark working knowledge of what to expect and as I would be shooting 5-15 second clips, maybe up to 2-3 minutes occasionally with the Z8…if I went all in on Nikon for everything, not a concern. Having said that, I do think the Z9 is the better platform. I just personally am on a smaller & lighter crusade right now.