Mark Romero 2

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

I really only film in 10 bit when I am doing commercial or narrative stuff where I'll push the image hard. 8 bit is more than enough for basic little tweaks for my corporate and event work. I love 10 bit, it's why I went with the GH5 to begin with, but I think a lot of people/projects don't really need it. Most clients don't see the difference anyway! Maybe I'm just being silly though! 

I appreciate your thoughts and experience on this.

I guess my concern is how much I can tweak things later if I don't nail the color balance, or if I really have to deal with a heavy blue cast from window lighting, or avoiding color shift if I really have to raise the shadows a bit.

I am much more of a ham-fisted colorist than a perfectionist, so the appeal of 10-bit is not so much that I am going to create a masterpiece of color, but more like I have a bit more of a safety net when i mess things up on location.

So in certain respects, a BMPCC6K would appeal to me because of BRAW (since I edit in Resolve anyway). But the ergonomics and lack of photo ability makes it less appealing.

2 hours ago, stefanocps said:

it was just about aesthetic the main reason of my post. Being graduate at cinema studies ( in my univesity the sutdies are all about thery..not practices)  i am interested , a part of all the techniques parts, also about all the question regarding language, ahestetic and so on. My main think about this kind of shooting i am talking about here is that most of the time, it does not really look like motivated. To me i seems more a kind of habit, a fashion style of thelast years that should give some more "live" feel to the action. Sometimes this shake is more noticeable than other..looks like a kind of "fear" of a steady shot on a tripod

Yes, I think it is just about aesthetic. Most viewers will probably not consciously notice the amount of camera shake / movement but will subconsciously notice it. 

If you are interested in different cinematography styles I suggest you go to youtube and look for the https://www.youtube.com/c/InDepthCine/videos In Depth Cine channel and watch the Cinematography Style videos on there.

5 hours ago, MrSMW said:

But no, it's not that, but more the solo hybrid shooter in the real world aspect. Most of the day I can flit backwards and forwards between stills and video as there is enough time, but then there are times when I need to do both at the same time which means freestanding monopod (over tripod for speed).

Real world though, getting a camera off a harness and onto a monopod and back off and on and off and...see what I am saying, - it's a faff thing!

Instead, one camera, one lens (zoom or change primes from time to time) dedicated to the job and then just set up and use the stills cameras to do their job.

So it's not so much a case of I can't make it work, but rather a case of I can make it work better if I keep certain tools dedicated to certain jobs.

Aha!!! I see your point now. Yes, been a LONG time since I shot a wedding and I understand now how your on-site workflow would be better. Thank you.

5 hours ago, MrSMW said:

It has been weighing (pardon the pun) on my mind that the 24-70 is a bit of a beast, but I think this prime option will work better as it offers more flexibility and in summary, a 24, an 85 and a 130mm, 2 of which are f1.4 and the latter f1.8 vs single lens 24-70mm f2.8.

Yes, I think the 24-70 is great for someone shooting with one body (or two) but for your needs with multiple bodies, maybe primes are the way to go??? 

The Panasonic 85mm f/1.8 seems to be an excellent lens (for both stills and video). 

Off Topic: I am happy that Panasonic seems to have picked up their full frame game and released the smaller and less expensive S5 and is releasing the (also smaller and less expensive) f/1.8 primes. It's kind of funny to me that people who complained about Nikon Z cameras not having professional glass were the same people who complained about the original Canon R cameras having ONLY professional lenses.

@FreshGiantand @RogerRabbit are correct.

The same image is hitting the sensor whether you  are using full frame or crop mode (or pixel to pixel). 

The only difference is in crop mode, the camera is throwing away pixels.

When 6K shooting comes to the S5, you can (I am assuming) just shoot in 6K and then crop in to 4K in post and get the same effect as shooting in 4K aps-c mode.

31 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

In APS-C mode since its a Canon lens I get a 1.6x crop to give me a FOV of 85mm. 

I think the actual crop amount depends on the camera, so with an S5 it would be a 1.5X crop, not 1.6X, but who's counting???

18 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I've dropped my requirement for hybrid use of a camera on the fly, ie, flicking back and forth between stills and video...and instead, having identical hybrid camera bodies, but they are going to be designated either; photo, filming, video or hybrid.

Hmmm... if the S5 is similar to the S1, I thought it would be quite easy (in terms of controls) to flip back and forth between stills and video. Are your saying your lens requirements make it difficult to use one camera as a hybrid camera?

I thought that since the S series cameras have separate settings for stills and for video, they are pretty easy to switch back and forth. Also with the Q menu and the many things can be changed so quickly.

Also, since I NEVER use the joystick I think in theory I could program the joystick as function buttons. 

so anyway I am just curious.

Also, don't underrate the 24-105 f/4. It's big and if you already have the 20-60 it is easy to say, "I already have (most of)that focal range covered<' and that is true.

But it really is a good lens, lots of reach, and the 1:2 macro and minimal focus breathing and parfocal and you can set linear manual focus makes it really useful (I understand the 20-60 has many of these same features... hard to go wrong with either lens).

Yes, it's big and obnoxious and only f/4 and the f/1.8 primes will be available soon, but it's just a good all around lens. In the USA you can buy a used one for about $750 or so.

Anyway, something to think about. Hopefully the wedding season will be starting up soon and will come full blast. hopefully everybody who has put off their weddings for so long won't want to wait until summer and they will start booking you for February and the vaccine will be flowing freely by then.

2 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

Hmm. Even in APS-C mode? 

I still think it's a viable option. Do you need 10 bit? I know it's nice to have, but for a stationary camera it might not be as necessary? 

Well... I really like the image from VLOG and having more flexibility in post, but that is mostly for my real estate videos where I have basically NO control over the lighting and color casts. 

I guess I should try shooting some other things in 8-bit on the S1 so I have an idea of what 8-bit would be like on the S5.

12 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

The record limit on the S5 is just in 4K60p right? 

I think it is ANY resolution in 10-bit and unlimited in 8-bit at any resolution. 

I am not sure if the different frames rates have time limits as well or not.

7 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Having said that, I am not ruling out going with 3x S5's and 1x S1 come next Spring instead of 4x S5's, purely to have that S1 in the dedicated static no record limits, video role...

I think the S1 could be good handheld NOT on a gimbal because the extra weight and better IBIS. Also if someone wanted to put it in a cage and plug in a monitor due to the full size hdmi cable.

But those are minor advantages.

If only there was a hack to remove the internal record limit on the S5...

15 minutes ago, Trankilstef said:

Seriously I think the S5 would be the best option. Same mount, same sensor, same everything except for the batteries and the HDMI!
I have the S1H and I chose to buy the S5 for my B-cam/gimbal cam. It's way better to have same bodies, same menu systems, same sensor size, same (kind of) low light performance, same dual ISO, etc.  Of course that's my opinion.

Yes, I can see your point. That does make sense. Technically the S5 would be the A Cam and the S1 would be the B cam (on sticks) since it has unlimited recording.

But that would leave me out of having a "family" cam (see response to Iron Film above)

Much as I like the S1 I may end up trading for an S5... Most of the work I shoot is on a gimbal and it is just a beast having to work with the S1 on a Weebill S. I think the lighter weight and smaller size of the S5 could help out there.

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

But why wouldn't you just use your S1 for stills?

Good question:

1) It's heavy. I mean, it's real heavy. On pro jobs for stills I often take my a6500 and 10-18 lens because of the weight / size difference (I have two x Godox AD200 flash guns, one Godox shoe-mount flash, and one Godox AD-360 flash guns along with various flash triggers and accessories, along with three light stands and a heavy aluminum tripod.

2) I would want a camera that my 14-year-old son can borrow for school projects and getting in to photo and video on days I don't have a job. And I wouldn't want him to deal with the size / weight / complexity of the S1 (and wouldn't want him to break it).

9 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

You do get a better sensor in the G85, but the G7 has no recording limit as well (with the setting tweak), and IBIS doesn't even matter when it is only ever going to be used on a tripod!!

True, but the IBIS would help make it a good stills camera hopefully.

Thanks so much!!! Really appreciate it.

Thanks for the input!!!

If you have any work posted online, would love to see it.

5 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

If shooting in Vlog on the S1, the colors on the G85 aren't really going to be doing you any favor in terms of matching. Of course you could shoot both in CineD. Fast lenses are a good option to workout low light limits on M43 but good fast glass is expensive. Cheaper lenses that are super fast are generally not the most usable wide open. But I guess again the question is do you actually need low light performance for interviews? 

 

That's a good question.

My thought is the better the low light performance, the less number of lights and light stands I am going to have to schlep along.

And yeah, it seems like I would have to shoot in Cine D to try and get the best match in color.

3 minutes ago, kye said:

I'd suggest having a think about the various interview configurations that you might use and then working out what the minimum requirements would be for those setups, in order to avoid buying gear you don't end up using.

Sound advice.

OK, well taking account in to what @kye and what @IronFilm have brought up...

Maybe a G85 would be good??? half the price of a GH5, no recording limit in 4K, and IBIS

I could pick one up and the kit lens for around $500 or so.

Surprisingly, people are getting between $600 and $700 on ebay for the a6500

So in short it would be swapping better AF and better low light for no recording limit (a6500 has 30-minute limit) and better chance of matching colors with the S1.

3 hours ago, kye said:

The other advantage of having cameras of the same sensor size and common lens mount is that everything is a backup for everything else.  If a body dies then you have a second body that can use any of your lenses.  If a lens dies then you have access to every other lens on that camera.

Yeah, that is kind of the issue I face right now. Running two parallel systems doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me... unless it will somehow be cost effective to do it.

32 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

With a little tweak the G7 can have unlimited recording too, google it. 
As for 8bit, again remember the very specific use case we're discussing here: as B & C Cam for wedding ceremonies / speeches. 
This is low budget sh*t which you're going to be using SOOC or near to it. These cameras are just for bulking out the long form edits to give you coverage. 8bit is fine. 

OK, but just to clear up, mostly going to use the cameras for corporate / small business commercials, and just fill in to weddings on the odd job basis.

I guess I just want to make sure I will be able to match the footage with the S1.

I will look in to the unlimited recording trick. Thanks for the heads up.

52 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Thus you could have your Panasonic S1 as your A Cam, and two secondhand Panasonic G7 for dirt cheap...

I like the whole "dirt cheap" part, but my concern is that it doesn't have unlimited record time and no 10-bit. Seems like the G85, while a step up, also suffers from a recording limit and is 8-bit only.

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Also, stop buying EF mount glass. 

Never!!!

In all seriousness, L Mount glass is really expensive. And the fact that EF glass can be used on everything from Sony to Fuji to Sigma to BMPCC4K / 6K 0makes it seem "safe" in case I end up switching bodies again. I know it's a compromise but since AF on the S1 is pretty bad anyways... 

Out of curiosity, will you be doing HDR or just SD grading???

I have a vague recollection that benQ monitors are supposed to be good for HDR, but don't quote me on that. I couldn't even begin t suggest which particular model is best.

Thinking of getting a (used) GH5 as a B cam to my Panasonic S1 for interview situations (or possibly using on a tripod for wedding speeches / events) and also as a somewhat smaller photo / video camera for my 14-year-old son to use for school projects and such.

Right now my sony a6500 is my B cam. The faults of the a6500 are well known, but I think the main concern is that it doesn't have unlimited recording and the LOG format is only 8-bit, and Sony colors...

I do have some pretty decent glass though for the a6500 (like Sony 10-18, the Sony 50mm f/1.8 OSS, which works great as a 70mm-equivalent with some cheapo Meike extension tubes). And since cost is kind of a concern, I'm a bit worried about replicating all that glass for a GH5. 

So I guess I am wondering how easy it will be to mach the V LOG L of the GH5 with the V LOG of the S1.  I know I will lose about two stops of dynamic range 😞

Is the Viltrox II EF to M43 speedbooster adapter viable if I don't really need AF-C? Since for the foreseeable future I will probably be buying EF mount lenses for my S1 and using them on the MC-21 adapter, I could also dual-purpose them (to an extent) to use on the GH5, I guess.

Or is the metabones speedbooster that much better???

And at that point, getting a second S1 used wouldn't be that much more expensive... just real big and heavy. 

Other options:

BMPCC4K:
Bulky, not really a photo camera, still have to use a speedbooster

Fuji X-T3:
Recording time limits. Probably using EF-mount lenses (with lens stabilization) on a Fringer adapter. No real "memory" settings (which i use a lot on my S1 and a6500 cameras).

Other options???

Watched the gerald undone review of the FX6 this morning.

Kind of confused that 4K Long GOP is only in 8-bit, and you would need to shoot in All-I for 10-bit 4K

Lack of even a 3.5mm mic jack on the body itself means if you take the top handle off to fly on a gimbal, you won't have any audio (except for tiny mic built in to body) is also a bummer. 

Phillip Bloom seemed pretty distraught over the handling.

Dynamic range the same as a7S III???

Seems like for a lot of people the a7S III might be a better fit...

2 minutes ago, Trankilstef said:

Panasonic S lenses are extremely good in video, my 24-70 is parfocal and shows minimal breathing. Same for the 20-60. Incredible how they do everything right, but people are so caught up into the perfect AF quest that they don't see everything else Panasonic offers for video. I mean, they give the best out there for professional video into mirrorless bodies (not talking about real cine cameras). But people don't see that. I mean it's not as if loads of wonderful films and videos were made without AF.
 

Yeah, don't get me wrong. I regularly curse at the top of my lungs at my S1 when trying to use autofocus... even for stills I get a lot of times when it focuses perfectly on the background instead of a well illuminated subject. I guess a a trombone looks a lot like a human head to the face recognition algorithm.

But the linear manual focus feature and the ability to customize the amount of rotation to go from minimum focus distance to infinity focus are really nice, too. And when the AF DOES focus correctly, the way it eases out and eases in to the focus point is really nice.

(On the other hand, I would imagine that the power zoom feature on certain Sony lenses could be nice too if they were parfocal.)

I am sure Canon and Sony have great lenses but I am completely ignorant of any that will behave like cinema lenses and still maintain autofocs. Maybe they are out there and I just don't know about them???

16 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Video is you friend here 😉

Trying to take stills was dangerous enough already. If I had tried to shoot a video, I most likely would have fallen down the hill I was trying to shot from.