webrunner5

9 minutes ago, deezid said:

That's what I use as well. Damn, that really sucks, since my GH4 looks quite clean with it.

The UM Pro has better debayering and downscaling. Less artifacts, not by much though.

UM PRO


UM 4.6k

Yeah I don't understand how they, BM, have picked up the pace as much as they have with just going from 4k to 4.6k? They sure did some good Mojo on their processing to make it happen that is for sure. They are like night and day.

3 minutes ago, mercer said:

I also love how Arri LUTS work so well with so many different cameras. A simple S Curve and an Arri LUT at 50% will make even a shot from the D5500's Flat Profile look excellent. 

Yeah I always lean toward that Arri look. They have mastered the film look way above anyone else. Resolve has some nice Arri LuTs built in.

2 minutes ago, deezid said:

I know, at least 422. Made some pretty bad experiences with LT, lol.

BTT:
I really don't understand why the GH5 does even more processing than the GH4. Will sell my Panasonic lenses and GH4 soon I guess. I really need a natural looking digital image.

Well no doubt the lower end cameras are not going to look like a Arri or a Red Lol. If so they would never sell another one to anyone. If you want a great look, you are going to pay a great price, new or used.

1 minute ago, mercer said:

Yeah I think for a feature, if you have the budget to shoot with a Terra, BM, or 5D3 you'll get a way better image... no comparison really... but for a $2000 camera and a little elbow grease, you could definitely do worse than the GH5. I actually still think VLog may be overkill even for 10 bit footage... maybe when the 400mbps update happens. If I decide to get one, CineLikeD will be my friend. 

I sure as heck know my AF100A is a lot more forgiving using CineLikeD over VLog. Christ VLog is like get it perfect exposure wise or your goose is cooked!

4 minutes ago, deezid said:

They can even use ProRes LT, but it should be 422 at least to have a proper grain structure without macroblocking.

This is a chart for types of ProRes. Might help out some people down the road to figure out which one to use.

https://documentation.apple.com/en/finalcutpro/professionalformatsandworkflows/index.html#chapter=10%26section=2%26tasks=true

2 minutes ago, deezid said:

I never saw hair looking so bad on my GH4 honestly. If that really was shot on sharpening at -5, the GH5 is clearly worse than the GH4 in terms of overprocessing.

I will just go with the Terra 6k or Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro for our feature film project, which have an amazing IQ and look really beautiful (both are similar to the RED Weapon Helium 8k but way cheaper).

Their ProRes looks amazing since it's unprocessed, no ugly sharpening nor other nonsense applied (at least for ARRI and BM)

True but they are at the least using ProRes 4444.  

10 minutes ago, mercer said:

Good points, Don. I think we also need to consider that there is a modern "filmic" look that I think can be described as just as cinematic and very much liked by younger generations. There's this guy on Vimeo, a filmmaker from the Pacific Northwest named AJ Molle and he has been shooting filmic looking stuff since he had a GH3 and LX3. He then went to the GH4 and I believe he shoots with a D16 now, but his stuff has an intriguing mix of digital and film.

Even Alexa footage doesn't necessarily look like film as we know it, but it also doesn't look like consumer/enthusiast digital video either. This is where low end Raw and Log footage helps. But also nailing your exposure in camera and using light color grading in post to keep the image from breaking apart but still giving it a look that just isn't quite reality. 

Well yeah you said the magic word, Raw! That is the secret, and is what makes a Arri, Red, Sony F55, etc., BM stand out. Big time movies are not shot in ProRes LT LoL.

4 hours ago, Fritz Pierre said:

Emanuel makes an excellent and often overlooked point earlier in this thread...these are capturing devices...most of the creamy Alexa images you see on the big screen in features with a budget have been converted to film, for those beautiful buttery highlight rolloffs, before the final conversion to digital projection...so the final result is rarely judged in equal terms....Fincher still uses RED cameras exclusively (could be wrong hear) but after acquisition everything is converted to film....one could say that RED can't hold a candle to Arri, yet to my taste Cinematography in Fincher's films are simply stunning...visually some of the most beautiful films out there IMO...

Yeah Fincher does have a "different" mix of both a Film And a Digital look to his later stuff. His films even have a different Cadence to others. I guess him and Brad Pitt are going for it again.

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/04/david-fincher-brad-pitt

9 hours ago, Emanuel said:

I absolutely agree with you.

They would have to clean their house.

dvxuser, for example, is a shadow of old times.

It is a problem of their business, their reps, etc.

Not of their development department or engineering.

It is a pity : (

Maybe they'll hire me (who knows? :-D) and their trouble will tend to solve but never by their own as they seem to think.

It requires expertise, strategy and hard work. They simply don't look like to feel like.

Well, you know you have the skill set to probably solve a lot of their problems LoL.

10 hours ago, Emanuel said:

LOL Beyond Super 8 for sure, but can't be Super 16 mm, you're older than that! :-P

You should also know I am a film lover : ) Just can't ignore Panasonic has pushed the envelope of this industry more than any other contender. And that digital technology is not the opposite of film, only its part II :-)

That VW Bug in that film looks like a 1966-1967. That is when I first was there 1967. Maybe late 1966? So hell I might have been riding in that Bug!!

18 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

They don't need so. They have put all their eggs in the GH series basket! LOL

Panasonic has offered banding free IQ in a professional recipient going along the magic of slow motion only proper of film realm BTW.

Without mention you can mimic film for cheap on digital. You can't go on film for less than your dreams to become real from any digital workflow. 

Yeah but this bad press, deserved or not, about half ass AF is a REALLY big problem for them now. Even Panny fans are holding back, just think about people that are thinking about jumping ship, what they are thinking. This is Not a good thing for them, Panny.

If Sony comes out with some new, better mouse trap, A great A7III, well it might be game over if this new camera that is suppose to come out is a 7 grand or more, and the GH5 AF sort of never lives up to spec as well as we would want. And the Low light, DR bragging has not really come to true like they said. They have a nice camera here in the GH5, great has yet to be proven! I can tell you it is not on my radar. No way. 

I will hold out to see what Sony comes out with first if I am buying anything new. And these Firmware upgrades are more smoke and mirrors than real benefits. 400mbs All-I is well, not what I would want, not in a body the size of a GH5. I can think of a better codec than that. It starts with a R.

35 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

LOL Beyond Super 8 for sure, but can't be Super 16 mm, you're older than that! :-P

You should also know I am a film lover : ) Just can't ignore Panasonic has pushed the envelope of this industry more than any other contender. And that digital technology is not the opposite of film, only its part II :-)

Well I think Digital looking camera output wise is along the same lines of Records compared to CD's. Yeah records sound better, but then they don't! Well guess who won, CD's. I think Digital is going to win, and win big time 10 years form now, maybe sooner. I hate VR, but I bet it will be way more popular than 3D was, not saying much I guess LoL. Times change, and if you are trying to make money you better change also, young or old.

I will agree, Panasonic has helped the little guy, but Sony has pushed them harder, than I bet they wanted to, on their own. At least Sony has a greater upgrade path, video cameras wise, than Panasonic does. Panny has really screwed up on that part I think. Why would you let Sony, Canon, even BM, just hand your ass to you?? Hell even Red.

I know company's don't sell a lot of the higher end video cameras, but it is the pride of it, the keeping you in the brand of it that counts. Like I said, who the hell is jumping from a GH5 to a Varicam LT? They are 14k at the least. From 2k to 14k, yeah right! That right now is pretty much their stupid ass video camera gap!

1 hour ago, Emanuel said:

I beg to disagree. You are one of the youngster minds over here and I've ever met everywhere! ;-) BTW, only the car models have changed a bit along their design. You can't park there too. Some restrictions on pollution standards for the introduction of new technologies eco-friendly from EU regulations. Other than that, everything stays the same : )

I follow your concern on the clean-digital-look, though. Not my beach either. But, we're discussing capture tools, not the master to render for final output :-) 

Oh I am sure that is has not changed other than the cars and a few rules. That is what I love about Europe, it had Not changed! You are luckier that you think.

You have to love stability over rampart progress any day. That is Americas downfall I think. No love for the past. Just go, go, go. Not a goal that can last very long.

And not a very fun way to spend your life, always in the rat race compared to a laid back lifestyle of of my favorite city of Naples LoL. I know, you like Rome better.

58 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

I beg to disagree. You are one of the youngster minds over here and I've ever met everywhere! ;-)

I follow your concern on the digital look, though. Not my beach either. But, we're discussing capture tools, not the master to render for final output :-) 

Well I guess there is a time to just embrace that this is 2017, not 1950. The Digital look is here to stay like it or not. 4k is in, 720 is out. I think as a hobbyist I would love to keep the film look alive. But like I said, if I am trying to make a buck, put food on the table, I don't think a lot of cameras we associate with the Filmic look is going to cut it when you have to take any job that comes up.

It has to be a later Sony, later Panasonic, later Canon C series, and yes even a GH4, and it seems the GH5 Has to be in the mix as they say. There is no going back. For fun a BMPCC, 5D mkIII, for money making a Sony A7 mkII, Panny GH5. Bigger money stuff, Canon C series, Sony FS5 middle ground price. Canon C100, C300 probably the best overall for a balance between Film look, Digital look I think hands down. The Sony's, well the low light of them damn hard to turn down, but the worse looking Digital look to me. I think Panny is in the middle. And overall price wise, I think, very hard to beat.

For kind of serious modeling stuff, indie, short films the BM Ursa cameras Have to be in there. Price wise it has to be considered. Sony FS5 also. I like the Usra maybe better overall. But not as mature as the Sony Products. So that tips it in Sony's favor a bit. But showing up with a Sony will get you more jobs than the BM sad to say.

Now I am talking about making a living here, not for a hobby, fun. Hobby, well BM products, the lower end ones, 5D mkIII way up there now with ML.

Just my rambling thoughts about the industry as a whole if I had to do it all over again. Food for thought, and debate as they say.

A add on here. I think Panasonic, what ever this New camera they are talking about NEEDS this damn camera. It has to be under 6k, maybe even less. They have a Big ass gap in their products. It has to be filled for anyone to take them serious. To be able to move up from a GH5. People are not going from a GH5 to a Varicam LT. Get a grip!! They are sucking hind tit for not having a AF100 product like in the past in their lineup. The CEO of Panasonic needs his ass kicked for ever letting this happen. I mean it! Stupid, just plain damn stupid. Sony has handed their Ass to them because of it with the FS5, Canon with the C100, BM with the Ursa 4.6. Hell even the JVC LS300.

And no the Panasonic AG-DVX200 does not count. It has been a total flop for them. Lots of early problems with it. It ruined its potential even if they get all the bugs worked out. They threw it out the door too quick! It would be hard for me to buy one, even used. It is more of a ENG style camera anyways.

12 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

:-D I see my edits are impossible to follow your intrepid action/reaction hehe.

So, since I've based part of my background from hours spent through Film Archive in Lisbon I believe we surely share some solid referrals in common ;-)

Very true that each pencil has its own trace. That's rather hard to steal it right out of the box. The chances to mimic that later is what differs to my view.  So, they simply are not at Varicam level in the same range to a certain extent.

 

Well this damn video shows how old I am for the first time I was in Lisbon! It says Rare Color Footage! Jesus Christ!!! Shit I feel old Lol. And yes I have been there, hell maybe I am in the video shot! I was probably that drunk guy in the Maze at the end!

What do you think, Super 8mm?? Might be 16mm?

9 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

LOL You're quicker than my edit, Don : ) Here's the remainder:

LT version is supposed to offer same IQ. You know what? Try to find some other one to offer dual Native ISO (800/5000), can we?

That digital look you mean, I'd call it flexibility others such as Arri or Blackmagic simply don't have...

Acquisition means one sole thing: options@post. The more choices there the better digital camera.

Oh I totally agree. If I was younger, starting over, and had a good amount of money, or a backer, that does happen at times, I would buy the Varicam 35 Any day over the Arri anytime to make a living shooting.

The Arri is really best at making full blown movies, not doing the day in, day out stuff, you have to shoot, to make a living doing whatever comes up. The Varicam is Way better suited for that, hands down. The GH5 beats any Sony right now, A7---, A6---- out right now all day to make a buck shooting. It is a workhorse just like a Varicam is. You are right.

If you want to make money for not a lot of money, buy a GH5 today. It is just that simple.

14 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Right. They don't even compare to Varicam though. There's no other similar capture device IMO. Arri stands below to my mileage eyes.

Oh I agree. I love that video. That's why I posted it. I know a ton of people on here love the "Panasonic Look", or they would not be as popular as they are if we didn't.  I would not have a Panny AF100A, Panny G7 if I didn't like it. Hell Jon would be out of luck without his G85 LoL. A heck of a lot of us do like the Varicam 35 look.

But I am not sure I would trade a Arri Alexa for a Varicam 35.  Hmm, that may be a bridge too far. But I am older than you, not much, but I am. But they are 4k, and that is a big plus going forward for it.

Oh and that should say Baked in not Backed in on my above comment LoL..

Well I don't think what ever you do the GH5 is not going to look like a Ursa 4.6. BM cameras have magic Pixie dust sprinkled on them LoL. They do know how to get a great look out of them. Panasonic has never done that, even with the Varicam 35.

This is what Panasonic Thinks a Varicam 35 is Suppose to look like output wise. 

And in it's own right it is very beautiful, very clean looking. But it is Not Filmic, it has a Digital camera look. This a really good video in my mind.  But I think down the road they are probably going to be right and the rest wrong, like I said in a post above. Young people like that look, no they Love that look.

But BM has the Filmic look, they have it in all their cameras, and I don't see how the backed in Varicam 35 Mojo, in the GH5, can be overcome. Maybe it doesn't need to be? I would sort of kill to have a camera with that look! Breathtaking video I think.

56 minutes ago, Grégory LEROY said:

thanks for you opinion. I've booked the vip part of the restaurant + the ambiant light is very dim, I think it be easier.

Thanks for your color grading advice. Can I find this warming filter on premiere?

Strange, I think it'soversharpen caus I forgot to decrease the sharpening to 0 when shooting. But Nikon 1080p is a bit soft, I agree

Yes you can overcome just about Any lighting condition as long as it is Consistent. That is the trick. Your VIP section sounds like a good plan. It is not going to be an easy task as you well realize. Just come prepared, that is 3/4 of the battle, be ready for any need. Big trouble is that having a very fast lens leads to OOF footage. Probably not as bad as it used to be when I shot, better higher ISO in cameras now help you out a bit. Heck even better controllable lighting also now.

But you want to try to make it look as normal as it is. You are in a Dark restaurant, you Need to try to keep it looking that way. No easy task, but you are not the first one to have to shoot in this situation, Just take a deep breath and say it has and can be done LoL. Some restaurants have the ability to dim or brighten the lighting, you might luck out if they do.

Positive thinking, a fair amount of talent, and a bit of luck thrown in, and you can accomplish just about anything. Words you just about Have to live by to make money shooting.

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

Here it is doing that particular job by the way.

HD to the card and simultaneous live stream broadcast via the £10 Edimax dual band wifi adapter you can see sticking out near the back next to the peephole viewing device. Or the EVF as JVC laughingly refer to it. 

And my Nikon 70-200mm seeing some action as a very functional broadcast lens !

As this was in HD, using the Prime Zoom (or Zoom Zoom in this case) actually turns it into a 70-460mm f2.8 lens. Not too shabby really.

 

Wow that thing is smaller than I thought! That is like a Sony VG900. Make a hell of a good Run n Gun Camera.

This could end up being a Amazing advancement for Filmconvert!!

http://www.doddlenews.com/news-room/nab-2017-filmconvert-shows-off-upcoming-cinematch-app/

A year old article, but none the less still interesting to see what the BIG boys use.

http://www.dvinfo.net/article/acquisition/thoughts-on-the-panavision-millenium-dxl.html#prettyPhoto

https://***URL not allowed***/waterbird-bendable-slider-the-future-of-sliders/

9 minutes ago, Fritz Pierre said:

Great article...it also serves to boggle the mind at the complexity of what happens in a digital camera at such speed, to produce the image, as opposing to a lens allowing an exposure via, in the case of motion, a 180 degree mechanical shutter onto a light sensitive film frame...technology is truly amazing in some areas!!

Yeah it has to be incredible the data that is moved around on these modern Digital Cameras. Scary stuff LoL.

50 minutes ago, Phil A said:

I would expect everyone to know those basics from the article, the question is: how much more data rate will you need in All-I to match the quality of Long GOP? If it's 3 times, you already lose quality with the 400 Mbps codec. @Fritz Pierre is of course right about the "in the right hands" comment, but those also do magic with 8bit 4:2:0 material in 100 Mbps.

I've seen a table with comparison of the different compression levels but I can't recall where, I'll edit it in when/if I find it.

I am guessing the 400mbs All-I will be No better than what we have now, other than maybe help with motion smearing, tearing. But for critical editing it will help, but at the cost of a LOT more data, ergo, needing a Bigger SD card. And I think your 3x times is in the ball park.