Django

That is a possibility but matching footage from different brands is something I'd rather avoid, even though using EF glass on both platforms should make things bit more consistent. (however color science and overall image processing would still differ). Yeah I mean the S5ii footage hyalinejim provided also convinces me that the 4K footage looks indeed super clean, with a very pleasing organic look. Even though it's only shot with Tamron zoom. Pretty impressive. I would of course be curious to see footage with same EF-L glass shot on R6 vs S5ii for a more definitive comparison.

No that's some great feedback keep it coming! I'm trying myself to decide if I'm sticking with Canon or switching to Panasonic. I think I'd have to wait for the S5iiX though (I like chunky codecs). My concern is still AF. From a lot of the S5ii tests I've seen, it still feels like a first gen PDAF. Initial focus acquisition has this lag and there seems to be the occasional random hunt. And if multiple faces show up it gets very confused. Now no AF is perfect, the R6's had its issues too but R6ii does now have subject only, taken straight from the cinema line (R5 doesn't even have this) which locks on a face and never back-focuses even if the face leaves the frame. That along the low RS, no crop 4K60p and overall CS makes me wanna remain in Canon eco-system. That said, Panasonic has its own merits so looking forward to hearing more feedback, especially compared to Canon. Thanks and congrats on the new purchase.

Agreed, Sony has improved -a lot- but you're right about mixed lighting conditions, this is were Sony always fails miserably. Technically I guess its more a white balance issue but yeah some cameras just handle mixed lighting way better than others. We all remember A7S2 zombie skin tones. Its not a big issue with cinema cams in the higher end because the environment is so well controlled. Shooting RAW WB doesn't even matter. If you're talking about ARRI CS, well then yeah its the best in the world. Everyone else is just trying to copy it, including myself. I'm not a big fan of film stocks to be honest but it often helps rubbing off the digital edge of mirrorless cams so I do use film convert when I'm trying to get away from the dreaded video look. But sometimes I like the video look. Like for shooting BTS, corporate, social media or more docu/news type stuff. Social media clients hate the cinema look, too stylised, comes off as arrogant & overkill.

I did actually try CST with those settings but to be honest was not enchanted by those results. It's all very subjective of course, and I'm not necessarily looking for complete accuracy when grading, although its probably a good place to start so I'll test that further. I think Sony was voted most accurate color science in recent cross-platform tests. Yet in reality they are ironically often the most disliked! Reality isn't always that pretty 😉

@hyalinejim Thanks but I'm not quite sure how to best compare/analyse those charts? From what I can tell the reds are darker and more saturated, the blues are lighter and shift towards purple, the orange looks darker and the cyan brighter, almost vivid. How all that translates in an image I don't know, CS is still kind of a mystery to me. In the sense that perfect accuracy isn't always what you want, real life can be boring, ugly even. CS is supposed to enhance that. Make skin tones look good and even etc. Regardless, it seems pretty clear to me now form working with the files you provided and from the camera conspiracy video comparing S5II/A7SIII/R5, that the biggest issue is red channel is over saturated. That said I like the Panny CS generally speaking. Like I said it kind of reminds me of Leica, which is my favourite. I think the main culprit is really the outdated single conversion LUT.

Mainly the RS but the low bitrate and 4:2:0 might also be less robust than the 4K. Hard to tell with the wideshot train station examples but that's what I suspect. Still a nice option to have.. That's what I was thinking too, or shoot in 4K60p to half the RS. That's what I often do on R6 who also has poor RS. I haven't played much with the HD pixel-pixel files as I noticed the footage looks noisy and soft. They look good to me too but had to tweak them a bit to avoid the red channel sat from boosting red nose syndrome. Yeah those seem like ideal affordable compact primes, as a prime shooter its definitely what I'd go for native lens solutions.

Cool, I'm staying away from the standard Panny LUT. The Varicam ones like "Nicest" seem.. nicer. Overall solid 4K files. Not sure about 6K open gate. Man that rolling shutter, yikes. Gotta stay away from trains!

Many thanks! That's more than I could hope for! Already thrown a few in Resolve, looking good. Aside from the red channel but I already knew that so bringing red down a tad in hue vs sat. What lens was this shot on?

Well color science also evolves generation after generation, but the same old LUTs often remain. Saturated reds is something Leica is famous for so I wonder if this is their influence. It seems like their CS is closer than ever to Panasonics now with L2 image processing.

Still some issues with the red channel vs Sony/Canon.. and he goes through Gamut, CST etc:

Yeah well shooting RAW always helps when doing heavy grading. You can't compare it to 180mbps 6K HEVC. But I hear you, there is something special, something else coming from BMD cams. The image has a thickness, an organic cinematic property, that you just don't find in mirrorless hybrids. I notice it, my clients notice it. That's why we use BMD cams on narrative, high-end advertising etc. That said, the gap is closing. With chunky 10-bit files the grading can be pushed nicely. It's a different look, cleaner/thinner, more digital photo like. It suits plenty of applications. Not everything needs to look super cinematic. Lenses play a big part too. Not too many Alexa, RED, Venice footage using $500 photo lenses. And the bottom line is specs. We're talking compact hybrids with IBIS, PDAF & EVFs. Getting back to Vlog, my first impressions are good. The standard "Vlog to V709" LUT inside Resolve is pretty accurate. Kind of a mild curve (I'm used to more contrast) but its a good starting point. I am surprised at what this little HEVC 4:2:0 codec can hold.

Just saw an update on Cined concerning S5IIX: C4K ALL-I (H), at 800Mbps and needs to be outputted to SSD. C4K ALL-I (L), at 700Mbps and can be recorded internally. • Recording Apple ProRes 422 HQ in HD internally • Record 5.8K Apple ProRes externally to SSD via HDMI or USB

@HockeyFan12 Funny I was just watching his S5ii Tokyo coverage. I'll have a play at that while I await hyalinejim's files. As for the image looking "thin" well we these are rather low bitrate 4:2:0 h265 files. Can't expect the moon. I do expect S5iiX to have thicker image with ALL-I and especially ProRes codec. Speaking of, I'm getting conflicting info concerning S5iiX internal ProRes. Will it be at all resolutions or FHD only?

Excellent!!!

Ok so basically a two-step operation. What's pixel-pixel crop factor in 4K? Does that mean a 1:1 readout?

@Thpriest That's what I was thinking, the 24mm & the 50mm, with crop mode those also give you 35mm & 75mm. Speaking of which how easy is it to switch to APS-C/S35 crop mode? Can you assign a button to punch in&out? Also I notice no stills/video switch and only 3 custom slots. So I guess no independent custom settings?

35mm is what I've shot most photo/video with, followed by 50mm. But these days, if I include iPhone shooting experience, my most used focal length is 28mm.

Ace, gotta love this place! I'd like to see how the 6K 3:2 open-gate holds up, since it's 10-bit 4:2:0. And perhaps compare it to some C4K 10-bit 4:2:2. As for content, I'm not going to be very fussy, whatever is convenient for you. Ideally human subject to test skin tones but any type of daylight street scene would also do fine. Many thanks in advance 🙏

CLog was developed on C300 for indeed 12 stops and CLog2/3 arrived with subsequent C300mk2/3 offering higher sensitivity. They claim up to 16 stops in CLog2 on DGO sensors. I just think its nice to have access to these various log curves depending on what scene you're shooting. The flattest curves often raise the noise floor. Which is why Canon CLog2 is only available on certain models and often only in post when shooting RAW. Anyways I need to find some S5ii Vlog footage to put it through the test. Hopefully some will pop up somewhere. FWIW I've been looking through lot's of S5ii footage on YT and found some I really enjoy CS wise. I see a certain neutrality that reminds me of Leica (no surprise considering the ties and L2 image processing). I'm also a Leica M shooter so really value that CS and I think I'm seeing some of it. Concerning lenses, does anyone here have experience with the Panny L-mount F1.8 primes ? I like a good set of affordable primes and read these have a focus breathing suppression design, smooth exposure and various manual focus ring settings. sounds ideal for video use!

Canon tweaked their CS with the mirrorless line. You have the option when shooting log to choose either original or neutral. I have tons of official C-Log transform LUTs including (non official) model-specific ones . There is quite a big resource around Slog & Clog. I don't follow Sony so closely but they have for sure tweaked and improved their CS. They also provide S-Cinetone derived from VENICE. I guess I'm just kind of surprised that Panny, a company often touted for its cinema specs, has only got one V-Log curve. Even Fuji who's only had log curves in recent cameras has introduced a flatter FLOG2. So I guess my follow-up question would be how does V-Log compare to S-Log3, C-Log2 & FLog2?

Hmm wonder if that means the same holds true for native lenses also? Kinda strange, usually IBIS+OIS = best stabilisation. I'm doing some research on L-mount lenses and it seems very few lenses even have OIS? Few zooms and zero primes. Guess I shouldn't be too worried as Panasonics IBIS has such a good reputation.. Hopefully, I'd rather not have to spend time fixing the curve though. Actually no, Canon & Sony offer a vast amount of conversion sets that fit just about every gamma profile / curve. So its usually just a matter of finding the one that suits your camera model. Also Canon & Sony cameras offer 3 log curves with various color matrix settings. Panasonic just seems to have "VLOG". Across all cameras, is that correct?

No doubt, which is why again I'd love to get my hands on some footage and test it out myself! Switching systems is way too big of a deal to simply rely on someone else's opinion. By the way it's not just Vlog but overall colour science I'm also curious about.

You are the one in that thread that stated the official V-Log to V709 LUT was "half-assed" and that in Resolve color space transform, the conversion brought issues. The rest of thread is people saying how exposing V-log is tricky.. and that "REC709 monitoring is trash on Panasonic". All of that seems very specific to Panasonic / Vlog. Never heard such issues with C-Log / S-log. All Log footage doesn't grade the same, so I'd like to see for myself. Perhaps you could provide some S5ii Vlog footage to test?

That would be me. The 6K 3:2 is the number one appeal. Mainly for multi aspect ratio purposes but also anamorphic use. I am invested in Canon but mostly EF. I'd only need to sell 2 RF lenses, none L so minor financial loss. The IBIS, PDAF and video assist tools all check boxes too so really on paper its a very tempting option. Again, for me, it is how the files are going to look and be treated that concerns me. I can grade Clog & Slog in my sleep but Vlog is a mystery and even threads like this don't inspire confidence: https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/70778-how-are-you-converting-v-log-to-normal-colour/

hmm.. but doesn't the Sigma MC-21 adapter kinda invalidate his point? As a Canon user myself, the above AF results on EF adapted lenses are rather impressive and could bait me to switch. I've said it before but the S5ii is the first ever Panasonic camera I've got on my radar. As for GH6, I think its target remains M43 lens lovers. Most of them use manual glass so AF is maybe not as important, and the camera still has some exclusive features such as internal ProRes and the dual gain sensor. I do suspect the very delayed release of S5iiX to be calculated in an effort to avoid cannibalising S5ii & GH6 sales. I find this strategy kinda sneaky. For only $200 extra why would you go with S5ii over S5iiX once both are available? Anyways I look forward in testing out some S5ii Vlog footage. How it grades is really the main question mark I have regarding switching. Hopefully maybe someone here can provide some! 😉