Django

Canon tweaked their CS with the mirrorless line. You have the option when shooting log to choose either original or neutral. I have tons of official C-Log transform LUTs including (non official) model-specific ones . There is quite a big resource around Slog & Clog. I don't follow Sony so closely but they have for sure tweaked and improved their CS. They also provide S-Cinetone derived from VENICE. I guess I'm just kind of surprised that Panny, a company often touted for its cinema specs, has only got one V-Log curve. Even Fuji who's only had log curves in recent cameras has introduced a flatter FLOG2. So I guess my follow-up question would be how does V-Log compare to S-Log3, C-Log2 & FLog2?

Hmm wonder if that means the same holds true for native lenses also? Kinda strange, usually IBIS+OIS = best stabilisation. I'm doing some research on L-mount lenses and it seems very few lenses even have OIS? Few zooms and zero primes. Guess I shouldn't be too worried as Panasonics IBIS has such a good reputation.. Hopefully, I'd rather not have to spend time fixing the curve though. Actually no, Canon & Sony offer a vast amount of conversion sets that fit just about every gamma profile / curve. So its usually just a matter of finding the one that suits your camera model. Also Canon & Sony cameras offer 3 log curves with various color matrix settings. Panasonic just seems to have "VLOG". Across all cameras, is that correct?

No doubt, which is why again I'd love to get my hands on some footage and test it out myself! Switching systems is way too big of a deal to simply rely on someone else's opinion. By the way it's not just Vlog but overall colour science I'm also curious about.

You are the one in that thread that stated the official V-Log to V709 LUT was "half-assed" and that in Resolve color space transform, the conversion brought issues. The rest of thread is people saying how exposing V-log is tricky.. and that "REC709 monitoring is trash on Panasonic". All of that seems very specific to Panasonic / Vlog. Never heard such issues with C-Log / S-log. All Log footage doesn't grade the same, so I'd like to see for myself. Perhaps you could provide some S5ii Vlog footage to test?

That would be me. The 6K 3:2 is the number one appeal. Mainly for multi aspect ratio purposes but also anamorphic use. I am invested in Canon but mostly EF. I'd only need to sell 2 RF lenses, none L so minor financial loss. The IBIS, PDAF and video assist tools all check boxes too so really on paper its a very tempting option. Again, for me, it is how the files are going to look and be treated that concerns me. I can grade Clog & Slog in my sleep but Vlog is a mystery and even threads like this don't inspire confidence: https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/70778-how-are-you-converting-v-log-to-normal-colour/

hmm.. but doesn't the Sigma MC-21 adapter kinda invalidate his point? As a Canon user myself, the above AF results on EF adapted lenses are rather impressive and could bait me to switch. I've said it before but the S5ii is the first ever Panasonic camera I've got on my radar. As for GH6, I think its target remains M43 lens lovers. Most of them use manual glass so AF is maybe not as important, and the camera still has some exclusive features such as internal ProRes and the dual gain sensor. I do suspect the very delayed release of S5iiX to be calculated in an effort to avoid cannibalising S5ii & GH6 sales. I find this strategy kinda sneaky. For only $200 extra why would you go with S5ii over S5iiX once both are available? Anyways I look forward in testing out some S5ii Vlog footage. How it grades is really the main question mark I have regarding switching. Hopefully maybe someone here can provide some! 😉

I know PFW sounds impressive but being based in Paris it’s really no big deal, its local work for me. It’s a big scene, I focus on a tiny part of it. Mostly doing BTS stuff and indie shows so no real pressure, I’m rarely even in the pit. Yet still, it’s definitely more intense than what I’m used to. These are situations when gear choices become key and sometimes less is more (a body or two vs three/four). Speaking of runway fashion, I remember you were complaining about the R5’s EVF lag making you miss some shots like during hair flips and what not. It seems you have sorted out those issues but that is one area where R3’s stacked sensor should give ultimate confidence with no lag, fast refresh rates, top AF and that eye-control AF sounds nuts. I just have a hunch R3 would actually be great for fast paced events. It’s another reason why I’m leaning towards it. Getting back to R5C and its poor battery life, its mostly due to the cine OS. All those assist features pump a whole lot of juice, I wish Canon would implement some kind of energy saving feature because it’s kind of a deal breaker. As gt3rs said, the battery grip is the most practical solution, so probably what I’d go for hybrid shoots. But losing IBIS is another big one. That’s two strikes against R5C as main body. C70+R7 sounds like a solid combo. I’d love a C70, have been eyeing it since release. Love the DSLR type form factor. Like I said I was a C100/C200/C300 + EOS combo shooter for years, but shifted to Sony FS7 couple years ago, mainly for chunky 10-bit and because Sony is more of an industry standard for video. I rarely do everything in-house so have to play ball with editors, colorists etc. But now that Canon has finally given 10-bit and compressed RAW to its entry C cams, I might revert back. It kinda sucks being on dual systems even though it's been a good business strategy for me.

No I haven't talked myself into anything yet, still weighing options. My first choice still remains R3 as it ticks off IBIS, battery life, overheat, best AF, vertical grip, 6K RAW compressed and 4K60p oversampled.. only a bit more expensive than a rigged out R5C and a much more elegant solution imo. No more cine features but for critical condition shoots, my atomos could always help handle things. R5C comes in second but no IBIS and poor battery life is a major PITA. So I'd end up rigging R5C, either battery grip + cage or external battery + cage. Add a top handle and a side grip or shoulder kit like in the video you linked and you've got a decent weight/balance rig. Still not IBIS level plus you are no longer that versatile for hybrid video/stills shooting. Yeah lens IS + EIS is always an option but it severely limits my lens use and adds that small crop. Its a workaround but not the most flexible solution. I've gotten so used to shooting FF no crop everything handheld on my R6, that going back to that feels so limiting. I really like shooting handheld on my mirrorless hybrids. And with all kinds of lenses including EF primes with no IS. FWIW I've been shooting Paris FW events this whole week on my FS7, BMD cams and multiple EOS bodies for stills shooting. Tripods, shoulder rigs, gimbals etc. Honestly such a PITA dealing with all that gear on a crazy hectic schedule. Sucks the fun right out of it. I feel like either a R3/R5/R5C plus a monopod could have almost been enough for the job (not including R6ii/R7 as some parts of the job required RAW). I have no idea but keep reading about grading issues such as in this thread here: https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/70778-how-are-you-converting-v-log-to-normal-colour/ Also if I was even considering switching over to Panny it would definitely be the S5iiX I'd want and that's not out until May. The other alternative is Sony since I'm also invested in that lens ecosystem but the only options are FX3 which has no EVF so no good for my style of shooting and A7S3. 12MP stills, 4K max resolution and no internal RAW are too severe compromises though. Crazy because Sony is number one in the industry yet so behind tech wise in the mirrorless world..

Yeah I just looked into it and indeed R5 is also dual ISO but just not officially. On R5C there is a base ISO mode (kinda similar to Sony's EI mode) that locks you to ISO 800/3200 only. Kinda cool. As for the 30mn time limit, yeah that annoying. Canon removed it on R3/R5C/R7/R6ii. Don't forget R5/R6 are just second generation Canon mirrorless. It usually takes that third gen for such quirks to be ironed out. Same with Sony A7S series. I do have leftover R6 batteries (just realised it yesterday when going through camera bag)! But I disagree that the R3 battery is a downside. The LP-E19's hold double the capacity so that means less swapping and less charging which is clutch. I'll take that over multi body battery interchangeability. In the R3 video I posted above, the guy uses a gimbal just fine it seems. Keep in mind the R3 body is mega light despite its size. an R3 is lighter than a R5 + grip! That said I'm sure not any gimbal works with an R3. Yeah the S5II does give you a whole lot for very money. Even has open-gate. But I saw some latest tests and the AF is still a work in progress, you can tell its first-gen PDAF. And yeah whole other lens ecosystem. Also been reading stuff here about Vlog being hard to grade and overall CS issues. This is where Canon really shines imo, you can throw anything at Clog and it always comes out good. To me this is a big pro for R5C. But I'm used to cine cams. I want all those options. You can have the ones you use the most inside My Menu. You can assign buttons for Q&S. Shutter angle alone is fantastic, set it to 180 degree and you no longer have to fiddle with shutter speeds when changing frame rates. Punch-in while recording to check critical focus. WFM, false color etc. On R5/R6/R3 all you have is that histogram that disappears once you hit record. Its a joke for serious work or complex scenes so you have to use an external monitor which adds weight and clunkiness. All of a sudden R5C with an external battery doesn't sound so bad! YMMV of course, as we see above depending on our requirements and user cases a pro can be a con and vice versa. It is interesting to hear how others shoot and view such things though!

@herein2020 I absolutely value your input, many thanks, but it ain't that simple. I've been shooting Canon since 5D mark1 and have had numerous bodies since, including cinema line (C100/C200/C300). I'm not just upgrading blindly from an R6. So I do really value the cine OS features such as focus/exposure tools, LUT support, XF-AVC, RAW Light, anamorphic de squeeze, unlimited recording, TC, smart hot-shoe etc. Those are the video features I'm missing. R6 was just a stop gap because I refused to spend 4.5K at the time for an overheating R5. C70 ticks a lot of boxes but no IBIS, S35, no high resolution, no stills and high price tag. In view of that, R5C is a mix of C70 & R5. The cine features, the fan, FF & 45MP. Downside is no IBIS, no NDs & battery life. The smart-shoe allows for the Tascam XLR unit so that's also a big plus. R5C also has dual iso so although the same sensor, better usage. And 4K60p isn't line-skipped. R5 gives you back IBIS and ok battery life. Still need a grip. No smart-shoe. Potential overheating. It sort of feels dated and not really much of an upgrade from my R6 aside from 8K. Then you have R3. up to 6K60p. No overheat. Pro body. IBIS. Stacked sensor. Best battery life. Killer stills specs. It isn't an easy decision, there is no clear cut winner in everything. And I really just want one body that'll do it best.

Here in EU, LPE19 is 169€ and 2xLPE6NH is 190€. R3 comes with a dual charger and I'd rather charge 2 batteries than 4. R3 is lighter than R5C + grip, has IBIS.. and overall more solid/pro feel. Here's a video from a dude that switched from R5C to R3 and I'm inclined to agree with most of his points although in the end its kind of a toss up:

scratch that about the R5C+grip cage, it exists: https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-camera-cage-for-eos-r5-r6-r5-c-with-bg-r10-battery-grip-3464.html

@gt3rs Thanks for all the info! I actually used the same black mamba cage for my R6, didn't realise it also fit the R5C. However it can't be compatible with the battery grip, which kinda sucks. Battery grip = no cage. I did find a shop that sells the grip for 300€ so cool there are better deals but still 600€ with 3 extra batteries. Of course the benefit for me is vertical control for vertical shooting which again I do a lot (especially stills). But the grip only takes 2 batteries so that's a whole lot of swapping, charging etc. I honestly don't like this solution, too much room for (charge) error, too much swapping which could happen in the middle of an event, missing key moment. So yeah the external batteries seem better suited for long events. The Nano does have USB charging which is cool but yeah mounting it above the cage feels a little obstructive. The Anton Bauer is a lot more elegant imo, and indeed that Kondor D-tap to USB-C adapter/cable looks like an interesting solution as it also frees up your R5Cs battery compartment so you have internal + external power. I agree the cable looks clumsy with that box in between. Also it is backordered (like a lot of products on their website) do you know if they restock often ? Gotta admit this whole battery conundrum is making me lean more again towards R3. I'd just need one extra LP-E19 to last me the whole day.

yeah I don't need 8K60p. so lets see, the grip + battery solution is elegant but expensive and you still need to swap batteries during the day: 3500€ body + 400€ grip + minimum 400€ (for 4 batteries). boom we're talking R3 money. Kondor Blue Dummy battery ($40) to FXLion V-mount (180€) seems way more affordable plus no battery swap. How is the V-mount attached to the cage? Almost looks like your on a hot/cold shoe. What about Anton Bauer base battery kit (370€)? I like that it has quick release with mount holes. seems pretty elegant and they have a kit with dummy battery to P-Tap. 68Wh capacity should give you even more runtime than the FXLion?

Ok back to R5C. Taking a closer look at it and it does have a lot going on for it, including various crop modes, various RAW compressions, XF-AVC, 8K/5.9K/3K, anamorphic de squeeze, LUT support, focus assist etc. And active cooling (bye-bye overheat for good). I mean its basically like a high resolution C70 without NDs plus a 45MP camera. For 3500€. It's almost a no brainer on paper but I keep hearing about the dreadful battery life. I just have to wonder how bad is it? If the camera keeps dying on me this sounds like overheat caveat all over again. How many batteries do I need for a 4 to 5 hour shoot ? what portable USB-C external power works for it ? Losing IBIS is going to suck but for handheld shoots I guess I could go for the IS RF STM lenses (24mm, 35mm, 85mm) plus DIS. Basically if I can sort out battery life and stabilisation, R5C could be the top contender. Yeah I can't wait until R5ii and also Canon Europe will sell it with a premium just like R6ii which basically means 5K. R6ii is 2900€ here which is equally ridiculous considering I can get an R5 now for 3000€ and an R5C for 3500€. I'm trying to get best bang for buck which means not the latest Canon release.

@herein2020 Thanks for the feedback, good to know you've sorted out your issues with R5! Well 8K compressed definitely tilts the balance more in R5 favour now. I really don't get why R3, the flagship doesn't have at least 6K ALL-I/IPB. Sounds like a real oversight. Only problem I have with R5 is the line-skipped FF 4K60p. It looks like for up to 4K60p R3 & R6ii are the best options. For higher resolution its R5/R5C followed by R3. Decisions, decisions.

I don't use gimbals much, I would definitely be adding the grip to R5 plus two batteries which is about an extra 600€ so now we're looking at only a 900€ difference with R3. As for cropping in 8K or 45mpix, well like I said I'm not a fan of cropping on FF cameras. I shoot wide open a lot, close subject portraiture, and cropping doesn't suit that aesthetic. But of course high resolution does allow it when you have to shoot landscape. You do raise a valid point about the 6K RAW. I didn't quite realise R3 didn't shoot 6K Mp4 files. Whereas R5 does 8K h26x right?

Yeah I know about all those tips. I have an FS7 with no IBIS and use various techniques to stabilise. He's using a huge URSA mini cine cam so not really relevant to the mirrorless world where small bodies need stabilisation. I hate using gimbals and do a lot of handheld so IBIS + lens IS just works wonders for me. But that does bring upon body size and ergonomics and that's imo another bonus for R3 imo. The bigger size and grip probably balances bigger EF/RF lenses better than the smaller R5/R5C/R6.

@gt3rs Thank you so much for such a detailed response! 🙂 Price wise here are the best deals I've found: 3000€ (R5), 3500€ (R5C), 4500€ (R3). I need IBIS as I shoot indeed mainly 35mm/50mm/85mm. (with occasional 16mm). I also need decent battery life and R5C + battery rig would price it not far from R3. Downsides for R5 is line-skipped FF 4K60p & still some degree of overheat. R3 has best battery life, 6K oversampled 4K60p, lowest RS, better low-light, best AF, best EVF etc.. MPix for stills is not important to me as I mostly do portraits and never crop. So I am mainly leaning towards R3 for my needs as it just sounds like a solid safe bet. I shoot a lot of vertical (both stills and now video) so the grip form factor is really appealing. The long battery life, the stacked-sensor speed. Even the eye-control AF sounds awesome. But you're right I could also start with an R5, it is the cheapest solution, and see if that works for me. If only R5C had IBIS and decent battery life it would be number one but as it is I have to rule it out completely I'm afraid.

Tell me about it, I was there for the whole DSLR video revolution. But then Sony came in with the mirrorless FF revolution with A7S in 2015 and boy did it take long for Canon to join in and catch up. EOS R (2018) had that weird 1.7x crop. Then R5/R6 (2020) were plagued with overheat issues. I mean it basically took until 2022 (R5C/R6ii/R7) to start having non overheating no compromise hybrids from Canon. Like we're just finally there in Canon land, so yeah of course they lost a lot of ground in the mirrorless video sector. They've been trashed in this forum alone for years, still have somewhat of a bad rep. Panny are in their own world I feel. Very loyal customer base. Mostly solo indie shooters. I know a few jumped over to BM. They have been ultra slow to adapt to PDAF needs so I think lost a few others to competition but with S5ii and on-going releases will probably gain them back. Solo operators really like their cameras and I understand why. Great video features, reliable hardware, always at a competitive price.

Yikes. This along side the thread on Vlog transform issues is a total deal-breaker for an eventual Panasonic switch I was entertaining. These types of issues can be maddening although mixing and matching different camera footage is always a nightmare for me personally. Agreed 100%. Also why I invested in a Sony FS7 + lens system couple years ago. I've learned to appreciate the camera as a workhorse but still it feels utilitarian. I don't feel the need to upgrade to an FX6 and will probably just get an FX30 as a B-cam. That being said, for smaller more personal projects and photography I remain faithful to Canon which is my preferred system (aside from a few stints with Nikon/Fuji). I just sold my R6 though and will most likely upgrade to either R5/R5C/R3. But the Sony dominance is scary, it goes beyond just the pro video industry. When I show up with my Canon for a video shoot I get strange looks sometimes by random non pro people and even comments like " You're not using a Sony?". People are just kinda brainwashed to think video = Sony. Which ends up kind of being the case in the end!

Should also be mentioned R6/R6II uses full width 5K/6K oversampled image for their 4K60p. Versus a line-skipped 4K60p on R5. R6/R6II have by far the nicest FF 4K60p mode punching way above its class. Yeah definitely a strong point for FX30!

Well yeah R6 overheats faster in 4K60. That's well documented. I shoot short clips and always turn the camera off between clips when shooting 4K60. On longer shoots I'd have the screen flipped out and even open battery and SD doors to minimise heat. By doing all that I never actually got stuck with the overheat but it was always something on my mind. Its the number one reason I sold the R6. No workaround was worth that stress.

Yeah from all the reports online, it seems like the 3.0 FW makes a substantial difference in video AF. A lot of users are claiming it is now finally on par with Canon/Sony. Interested to hear what owners here have to report. Is it really super sticky and no more pulsating/hunting? When multiple faces are on screen, no more hesitating?

Oh yeah sure it will work on S5ii too but if you mostly shoot 60p then you are essentially paying FF for an APS-C cam. When I switch to 60p I like the framing to remain the same so not a fan of cameras that crop on HFR shooting. It's a serious compromise imo. Interesting thought about 270-degree shutter on 60p. I also often struggle with fast shutter look when shooting 180 degree (1/120) in 60p. I'll have to experiment with that. Thanks for the tip!