kinoseed

4 hours ago, /Chop N Shoot Films/ said:

when using this camera I typically use the grid lines for 2.35:1 aspect ratio crop. Problem is the lines are really thin and dont stand out as much as I'd like.  Is it possible make the grid lines actually do the full black bar overlay while recording and keep the overlay on during playback? 

that should be possible, but the max bitrate will take a hit

2 hours ago, tugela said:

It is disabled on the CPU die. You can't see it. The design of the processors is exactly the same, but not everything on the chips is working. All of the bits are there, they are just not all available to the CPU during operation. All processor families are like this. All of the components are there on the chip, but in some of them various parts are disabled. For example, the CPU in my laptop is a dual core i7. It is exactly the same design as a desktop i7, but two of the cores are disabled on the chip itself so that it stays within the laptop's thermal envelope during normal operation. If all 4 cores were operating it would fry in the compact form factor of the laptop if you ran a multi-thread app. You can get 4 core versions, but those have their clock speeds fixed at lower specs. The two core processor handles single thread apps very well because it runs at a high clock rate, but multi thread apps struggle.

The reason for doing that is to force constraints on the CPU so that it will fit within a particular thermal envelope. Otherwise the processor would just heat up and fail. The NX500 has a much tighter thermal envelope than the NX1, so they can't have the processor operating at the same rate. To ensure that it does not, some parts of the processor in the Vs are disabled on chip. That is why Samsung used the V in the NX1 and the Vs in the NX500. Same chip die, but not everything is working in the junior version.

As I said before, all the major CPU/GPU manufacturers do this. Within a particular generation of chip, they all have the same design, but various things on the chip are locked out so that the individual members of the family can fit different machine specs for different applications.

Computation is not just encoding. The same hardware encoder is used in both chips, so obviously the actual encoding would happen at the same rate. The limitation is in other parts of processing, such as debeyering, downsizing, noise reduction, etc. The more limited capabilities of the Vs means that it can't handle as much data as the V, and that is why you have the crop.

 

Thank you for the explanation, however, I do not think it applies here.
There is no indication for difference in performance. NX1 and NX500 can handle up to the same amount of increased bitrate for the encoder. When I said same PPUs/OPUs etc (some of which handle image-resizing) - I am under the impression those are programmable hardware units. In particular resizing/re-sampling is set by a few registers which set the parameters for (I think it was PPU1 that handled resizing?), and the only block that is preventing NX500 of having non-crop 4K is control of those registers (which was not successful for now), but we can dump them quite easily.
So... if there were disabled processing cores, we would have noticed right away

6 hours ago, MountneerMan said:

Excellent thank you. I looked at some of OttoK's documentation on GitHub regarding controlling focus. I am not good at this stuff at all but it looks like the camera has no idea what the focus distance is in the real world it only knows the focus position so I assume the script would need to figure out what lens is attached and reference a table for that specific lens at that specific focal length to determine what the focus distance is and use that to calculate the values.

This is just my interpretation I don’t know if I am right. In either case let me know if there is anything I can help you with that is not too complicated ;P

Yes.. you are right. =/
I thought that info would be available, but I've never looked too much into the lens control as I use manual lenses almost all the time.

Unless someone smarter than I, figures out how to get the focus position translated to distance, there isn't much that can be done:
lensproperty.focus_position     -     with relation the to mm lens (zoom level)
 

3 hours ago, tugela said:

Not according to Samsung, and I think they would know better than you. They are the "same" processor in the sense that an i5 is the "same" as an i7, but parts of it are disabled in hardware. They all have the same logic inside but parts are not functional in the more limited processors within a family generation. CPUand GPU manufacturers do this all the time.

The NX1 has a DRIMe-V processor, while the NX500 has the stripped down sibling, the DRIMe-Vs. They will both use the same command and interface structure but the computational power within the chip is different. As  programmer you would not be able to tell the difference by programming alone.

You do know that HEVC profiles are just minimum standards and that individual manufacturers can do whatever they want right? It is not written in stone.

Which parts are disabled? They both have same PPUs, OPUs, etc.
NX1 has more memory, better WiFi, etc,  but the processors are the same.

better yet - consider the max possible bitrate for both cameras - both top at the same bitrates, which should give you clear indication that the computational power is identical.

of course they will have to say it's slower processor, to have better product separation considering the price difference, but even Samsung management would not have put more money for redesign to create a slower processor, at the same production price.

5 hours ago, MountneerMan said:

Hahahaha I love the smell of trolls in the morning!

@Kinoseed, I have a suggestion for a script/hack. Would it be possible to calculate in camera the near and far focal distance and then display those two numbers at the bottom of the screen? These numbers would then automatically update as you change focus or aperture. This would be good for landscape work as well as using the camera on a gimbal.

This feature would obviously be toggled off and on in the menu.

Side note, thanks for your continued effort into making these cameras even more incredible. 

you mean give you the depth of field?  - it should be possible
good idea   - when I get some spare time, I'll look into it

1 hour ago, Sten said:

NX1 gives consumers a "counterfeit" 4K video - the exisitng (HEVC Main Profile, Level 5.0) video compression outputs only 80bmps 1080p, but for 4K (as advertised) the NX1 needs Main10 Profile, Level 5.1

Submit a Consumer Complaint to the FTC

 

NX1 and NX500 encoders are identical.
what gets fed into the encoders is slightly different (in layman's terms - nx500's encoder gets a crop of 4k, nx1 gets to downsize the frame before feeding if for the encoder as input)

We are way pass the bitrate "profile" which Samsung has licensed, so you may be onto something there
If you use modded versions allowing higher bitrates, you may be using it without a proper license
keep in mind with the mods, you can do 400mbps 4K HEVC if you timelapse

8 minutes ago, tugela said:

Umm...no! That is not how it works.

70 mbps on the NX1 is the same as 70 mbps on the NX500. The NX1 has a more powerful processor, so it can handle the workload needed to downscale 6.5k raw footage to 4K. The NX500 processor can't do it, which is why they use a crop instead. The crop has less information available than the full sensor, so the image is inferior to that from the NX1.

fyi, both have the same processor.
NX500 was/is just crippled, however the crop is controlled by the PPUs which were not able to modify.
There are specific registers, which control how they process cropping/resampling, etc, however as soon as we touch those in memory, the thing crashes.

re the mbps - of course those are "the same", this is just the bitrate for encoding of the file, which already gets the copped/resampled image from the PPU.

5 hours ago, Otto K said:

I'm just trying to help a friend with ninja2 who's having problems (ie, nothing on it) and he's not near so I could help him in person. His problem is that nx500 seems locked to 60Hz output over HDMI and apparently ninja 2 supports only up to 30Hz in 1080p (it does 60 at 1080i).

Are you sure the frame-rate is the problem?

st cap capdtm getusr HDMIOUT
The possible settings are: 576P / 720P / 1080I / UD / UD_4K

I know in the menu for HDMI out it says 1080p, but I don't see it in the settings.

1 hour ago, BopBill said:

I use MPC-HC for viewing in 1080p monitor. And I have used sharpening setting 0 all the time. If I look the picture in MPC-HC choosing in the menu View/Video Frame/Normal Size, the picture should look as it would in 4k monitor (very large one though). The picture doesn't look too sharp to me.

In 1080p monitor the picture looks maybe little too sharp if video is sized to that.

I hope I can buy a 4K monitor+GPU soon (waiting for the prices go down) Then I could see if the NX1 picture is too sharp for me.

If your player gives you an option to choose resizing algorithm, try "lanczos", but I really don't see "sharpening" as an issue.

re original issue: Destroying the footage with "softening" just to look good when you playback 4K on 1080p (when your player uses poor resizing algorithm) does not make sense.

2 hours ago, SR said:

 

We really ought to start a new thread discussing the various methods of adding softness to neutralize the Samsung's sharpness.

 

I am on -10 always, but it's always been too sharp even then.

Try lowering the contrast too, but at -10 I can't see any USM sharpening on the 4K/UHD
don't judge it on the camera screen, nor on your monitor unless you are looking at it full size on a 4K monitor.
Zoom to 100% and then check if it's too sharp, as resizing of the preview will make impossible to pass judgement on that.
If you are using Premiere for export to lower resolution, make sure you check the option that makes high-quality resize.

6 hours ago, chauncy said:

kino,

 I saw in the latest there was something about remote controller but no explanation. Is this like Samsung camera manager or some kind of improvement for remote control? I use the manager all the time, but it is very lacking. If it was faster, and had more features this would be a big deal

 thank you

The project is created by mewlips:  https://mewlips.github.io/nx-remote-controller-mod/

After you start it (check-ON in the menu), you will see the camera's IP. Just enter it in a browser (can be your phone), and you get full control.
You can set your phone as a hotspot, and connect your camera directly (you can use this if there's no WiFi around).
To stop it - uncheck it from the menu.
(you don't need the Telnet/Ftp activated for it to work)
 

On 9/28/2016 at 9:00 AM, SR said:

Hey, guys, any word on the sharpness problem with the hack? I can't shoot video without an ND filter. Anything above F3.5 is too sharp. It's a pain in the ass. (Any tricks around it?)

Sharpness: -10
Contrast: -5

I have never seen any problem with 4K and UHD.
With 1080p, you can try mounting the resolution on 4K or UHD (depending what FPS you need), and see if that helps.
ex: nx-ks menu > Custom Func. > Mod Resolutions > UHD as 1080p

31 minutes ago, BopBill said:

Hi Kinoseed! I would like to report that I tried your 2.49 version, but could not get bitrates working. All videoclips where 80Mbp/s, no matter what settings I did set (UHD 30fps).

I have Vasile's nx-on wake patch installed. Mod was uninstalled first before I installed yours.

Just for your information in case someone else reports this kind of problem too.

Just checked some clips from yesterday, they are 180Mbps, so here it works fine.
What does "current bitrate" from the menu tells you?
No one has reported problems with bitrates for at least 2-3 months, so my guess is it has something to do with your "other" mod.

edit:
NX-KS does not really modify the firmware (except adding the Bluetooth launcher), however the other mod you had installed does.
Installing both is not a good idea, and how well the other mod uninstalls is unknown to me. The safe thing for you to do would be to flash your device with the original Samsung's firmware, and then install NX-KS.

2 hours ago, Dean said:

I will but just with Film Convert and a few tweaks ... worth using 0-255 then?

Also, sometimes I use Andrews Log LUT for the NX1 and for that you need to film in 16-235.

Cheers.

In one case you have 256 possible values of the r/g/b, with the other you have 220 (shades of r/g/b), if it's worth using depends on your needs.
(no idea why you would want to limit the Log LUT to 16-235, which means the LUT clips everything below 16 and above 235, forcing you to record with more limited tonal resolution)

I made a LUT for my own use, here it is with some additional warming:

Camera setting:
WB: Auto WB G:1 B:0 A:2 M:0
Color: Red:x0.87 Green:x0.90 Blue:x1.00
Saturation: -3 / Sharpness: -10 / Contrast: -5 / Hue: 0

Usually I put a LUM-curve (to adjust black level, contrast and highlights, if needed) and above (next) the LUT (which you can adjust for temperature, sat to taste)
you can download it and use it for non-commercial work from here:

2 hours ago, Dean said:

You take my intelligence fro granted ... haha.

I have no idea what most of what you asked mean. I am just a novice when it comes to video.

Should I not use 16-235 any more? I used 0-255 or what ever it is once and the whites looked too white and the blacks too black.

if you don't intend to grade (colour-correct) your video (in post-production), go for 16-235
otherwise, go for the 0-255

2 hours ago, Dean said:

Sounds great. I'd love to see if it works.

The bitrate hack is certainly very clean and detailed !! ... I found a little surprise on this water lily when I zoomed in at 400%

This was using normal gamma with everything at zero. 16-235. Probably should have turned sharpening down to -10.

Have you checked if you have better DR using 16-235?
This was a leftover from the analogue age, and it most probably after the image is ready for encoding (and the DR is basically set) the encoder gets instructed to set those min/max values, which would result in lower tonal resolution, and no increase of DR (if we don't count some, if any, value interpolation by decoders, for the clipped regions).

19 minutes ago, Dean said:

Anything like that would be excellent ... perfect in fact.

At the moment with my 16-50/2-28 I usually compose the shot with the AF point where I want it on the subject ... physically switch off AF on the lens ... press AF/ON which I have assigned to lock exposure ... then press record. I do this in "S" mode with shutter @ 1/50 and a 3 stop X4 filter on. Works nicely from run & gun street type videos.

What you are proposing (focusing first, then starting video-rec in manual) would be great !!

Cheers.

The camcorder-mode module was written by @Otto K maybe if we don't mask the HS, it will basically do exactly what's needed, and only a manual-focus on rec-start will be needed to have it working like that.
(I mainly use manual lenses, so I get to manual focus all the time)

1 minute ago, Dean said:

Ok, thanks. We have actually done some work in person in the past ... for stray animals. I'll donate a bit extra next time as well.

Not to be a serial pest question asker, but would there ever be a chance of AF-S in video ?  

 

"AF-S in video mode" - changing focus while in video turned problematic (focus pulling is barely working as it is at lower bitrates), but ... maybe something like focusing first, then starting video-rec in manual? (not sure if it will work)

20 minutes ago, Dean said:

Thanks for the reply and thanks for all the hard work on the hack. All good now anyway after loading the software again. The CamCorder mode is switched off.

Just come back from a couple of hours of shooting with it.

Can you tell me how I donate? I've donated to Vasile but not to you yet.

Also, would there ever be any chance of having AF-S in video mode?

I'd love this for the type of street video shooting I like to do. Would also make Samsung's little primes with no AF switch useful in video.

The updated v2.50 is up, which should fix the issue with camcorder mode on boot.

When in comes to donations:
Q: So, where's the Donate button?
A: Nowhere. Find a suitable charity and donate. If you cannot afford it, find a local charity and see if they need help in person - it will do you a world of good.

cheers

 

5 hours ago, Dean said:

I installed the KS Hack last night and all went well. This morning I got up and tried to get into the menu (pressing ev & OK) but it wouldn't let me for some reason. I know the hack was still operational because Camcorder mode was still on. Any reason this would happen. This morning I took the battery out and reinstalled the software and it looks Ok again. 

Looking forward to testing the higher bit rate out today

The camcorder mode was making problems for the keyscan (all other shortcuts would not work) after camera restart, but I though I fixed that, but apparently it is still happening. Make sure you turn off the camera-mode before turning off the camera, so it won't start on boot. (starting it manually seems does not cause the issue)

edit: the fix was rolled back in one of the latest updates, so it appeared again (my bad)
I'll update the pack in a few min.

edit2: nx-ks pack is updated (issue is fixed)

1 hour ago, Otto K said:

I measured roughly some time ago and got ~8ms rolling shutter for 2.5k on NX500. All other modes (FHD, UHD, 4K) were 24-30ms.

Could someone else verify that and could someone more experienced than me guesstimate whether it's skipping lines, binning, etc? Occasional weird horizontal line pattern suggest it might skip lines but I'm not sure how to check properly. 

... does RS really matter? (we can't really change or make it better, can we?)
however, I don't know if it's just me, but looking at the great example @Geoff CB showed here, don't you feel like the effect is much higher at the acceleration points, and when the speed is stable, the effect is negligible ?

@Otto K, if you are interested if the 2.5K is line-skipping (which it looks it does), maybe the moire effect will be more telling (and maybe it could show how much skipping is does), but again, (how) can we use that info?

edit:
On a more positive note, last thing before the summer, I think we got two addresses which load LUT at recording start, so maybe we can modify and get those customized, however at the time I didn't recognize the format (they are not 3D LUTs).
And if we can find a way to read exposure levels maybe we can get the time-lapse to auto-correct the exposure, and completely automate it for sun sets/rises.

47 minutes ago, lucabutera said:

If this were possible that would be great!!

Give it a try, and let us know how it goes:
Mod-menu > Custom Func. > Mod Resolutions > (select) VGA as UHD
*note: if you have NX1, you need nx-ks v2.49
Set your camera to VGA, and check what comes out from the HDMI

To tweak the hdmi-out, you can execute the codes above (via telnet), and see if there's any (there may not be any) difference in the output.
 

16 minutes ago, lucabutera said:

are you saying that could shot in raw with external recorder?

as I said - "no idea", as I can't test HDMI-out here

19 hours ago, Sten said:

Can't you write a script for RAW video via tha VGA channel?

for recording - nope

if you think of using HDMI - no idea (and I can't test it here)
Change the VGA resolution, and see what comes out on the HDMI
you can play and change the HDMI output:

The possible settings are: 576P / 720P / 1080i / UD / UD_4K

st cap capdtm setusr HDMIOUT 0x350001
st cap capdtm getusr HDMIOUT
UserData is HDMIOUT_576P (0x350001)

st cap capdtm setusr HDMIOUT 0x350002
st cap capdtm getusr HDMIOUT
UserData is HDMIOUT_720P (0x350002)

st cap capdtm setusr HDMIOUT 0x350003
st cap capdtm getusr HDMIOUT
UserData is HDMIOUT_1080I (0x350003)

st cap capdtm setusr HDMIOUT 0x350004
st cap capdtm getusr HDMIOUT
UserData is HDMIOUT_UD (0x350004)

st cap capdtm setusr HDMIOUT 0x350005
st cap capdtm getusr HDMIOUT
UserData is HDMIOUT_UD_4K (0x350005)

9 hours ago, lucabutera said:

it's possible UHD 50fps on Nx1? Tnx!

UHD at 50/60 fps was reported as possible only as HDMI output (via the VGA channel), however I have not personally tested it.

5 minutes ago, Geoff CB said:

That is amazing, does the bitrates carry over as well, 150 mbps+? Thank you so much for the info and work on this. When my NX500 arrives I plan to do an extensive testing with this mode.

yes, bitrate stays the same if not modified in the menu for 4K (by default it's 180Mbps)
Cheers