mercer

Great rundown Kye, and to add, @Jedi Masterstated in an earlier reply that he watches movies for escapism, yet he wants them to look as real as possible?
I also question the motives, or rationale, of people who consistently argue in favor of HFR filmmaking/exhibition because they base their opinions on practically no films that exist since 99.9% of all films have been shot at 24fps. So maybe they just don't like movies.

No, it's not an echo chamber, and people are free to have whatever perspectives they want.
But take this thread as an example.  It started off by saying that 24p was only chosen as a technical compromise, and that more is better.  
Here we are, 9 pages later, and what have we learned?
The OP has argued that 60p is better because it's better.  What does better even mean?  What goal are they trying to achieve?  They haven't specified.  They've shown no signs of knowing what the purpose of cinema really is. You prefer 60p.  But you also think that cinema should be as realistic as possible, which doesn't make any sense whatsoever.  You are also not interested in making things intentionally un-realistic. Everyone else understands that 24p is better because they understand the goal is for creative expression, not realism. If we talk about literally any other aspect of film-making, are we going to get the same argument again, where you think something is crap because you have a completely different set of goals to the rest of us?
Also, the entire tone from the OP was one of confrontation and arguing for its own sake.  Do you think there was any learning here?
I am under no illusions.  I didn't post because I thought you or the OP had an information deficit, but were keen to learn and evolve your opinion.  I posted because the internet is full of people who think technical specifications are the only things that matter and don't think about cameras in the context of the end result, they think of them as some sort of theoretical engineering challenge with no practical purpose.
A frequently quoted parallel is that no-one cared about what paint brushes Michelangelo used to paint the Sistine Chapel except 1) painters at a similar level who are trying to take every advantage to achieve perfection, and 2) people that don't know anything about painting and think the tools make the artist.
I like the tech just as much as the next person, but at the end of the day "better" has to be defined against some sort of goal, and your goal is diametrically opposed to the goal of the entire industry that creates cinema and TV.  Further to that, the entire method of thinking is different too - yours is a goal to push to one extreme (the most realistic) and the goal of cinema and TV is to find the optimum point (the right balance between things looking real and un-real).

Give him a week or two and it will be the best camera for him.
🤪

If you give GFX 100 II's for Christmas presents to your spouse, I think a number of members of this forum are going to try to woo you away from your wife!

It would be interesting to see Hollywood "resurrect" actors like Bogart and Brando in the form of CGI.

Just get a Canon. The R7 is a great deal or Canon even makes some decent camcorders if that's something you're considering. 

You'd be amazed at the number of folks that drop into the forums, ask a question, and then:
never answer follow-up questions and are never seen again argue with all the people trying to help them supply critical information many many pages later, despite having been asked directly along the way participate in the discussion nicely, then go out and buy the a wrong camera that was eliminated in the discussion, then complain about it because it has all these issues that everyone warned them about Hardly anyone even says 'thank you' either.
This is why experts burn-out from posting on forums - the trail of people who ask for help and then fight every inch of the process to try and provide the help they asked for.

Hey guys, I don't really shoot any video, or stills, but I am really into barbecue... can you recommend a cinema/stills camera for me so I can convince my wife that spending $2500 on a barbecue grill is a good deal. 

Hey guys, I don't really shoot any video, or stills, but I am really into barbecue... can you recommend a cinema/stills camera for me so I can convince my wife that spending $2500 on a barbecue grill is a good deal. 

Hey guys, I don't really shoot any video, or stills, but I am really into barbecue... can you recommend a cinema/stills camera for me so I can convince my wife that spending $2500 on a barbecue grill is a good deal. 

The best form of defence is a good offence!

Or bring a bat and when he hands you the camera to look at, hit him over the head and run away. 

Or bring a bat and when he hands you the camera to look at, hit him over the head and run away. 

There's one other consideration with Mac - the smallest SSD usually has about half the performance of all of the other SSD's.

The short answer is to always take at least the one above the smallest (so if the smallest is 256, go at least 512) and make sure you have enough space for whatever files you want to keep locally.  If not, upgrade.  Any modern high-performance external SSD (whether USB 3.x or Thunderbolt) is going to be fast enough for the vast majority of people.

I went with 2TB because I like to be able to temporarily dump things to the internal drive so that I can edit on airplanes or while on a couch/in bed without having an external drive dangling from the side of the computer.  

Who the fuck is Jack and will he be buying a Kodak Super 8 camera?
Speaking of fingers on a hand, I think Ben has shot more on film and won awards than he has fingers, so I'd personally trust his understanding of the market.
Although I think it's a little pricey, I have no doubt that they'll have plenty of preorders. I would if I could justify it.
If I owned a rental house in Topeka, I'd buy 2 or 3 for when the shops in LA or NY run out of them.
Film is alive and well. 

Come on...  we all know that Jack will buy one - he can't help himself!

Exactly.  The video split alone appeals to the renter customer who are the ones who NEED to shoot 1200 rolls and then move to the next job (as described above)
Those aren’t owner operators.  
 

Gotta love a demo video that starts with a world-famous model / actress...
All else being equal, products like this probably help to keep film alive.  There's a chance the rich might adopt things like this, and perhaps burn through film like they're rich (because they are).  For the rest of us, if you wanted to shoot on 8mm film then get yourself a second-hand real film camera and then benefit from the film consumption of the rich to give economies of scale.
Personally, I think that the iPhone / smartphones have finally gotten here.  The compression artefacts (and even the crushing over-processing) are made invisible by the time you add enough blur and grain to get a semi-decent match, and they've finally caught up in terms of dynamic range, so you can have contrasty mids with strong saturation but gentle and extended rolloffs.
Also, the more these images trend on social media, the more my OG BMPCC and BMMCC go up in value!

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. I'm heavily invested in Mac... iPhone, FCPX, Logic, even GarageBand, various writing programs... so moving to PC is not even a conceivable notion for me.
As far as needs, I probably should have mentioned that I've been using an early 2014 MacBook Air with Intel, 8gb Ram and 256gb storage (I have a few external drives) for my writing, audio dramas and for transcoding 1080p ML raw and 4K FP cDNG to ProRes HQ or 4444 for light color grading and editing in FCPX. It's always been a bit of a hassle since the MacBook Air doesn't have a 180 degree viewing angle... so there's a lot of trial and error to figure out what looks right... but I had what I had, so I made it work the best I could.
That said, after 9 years, it's showing its age and I am in need of an upgrade. Filmmaking has taken a bit of a backseat over the past couple of years, but I'm still plugging away. I assume 16gb of ram and an M2 would be a luxury to what I'm used to.
Thanks again for your replies!

I can't speak for Z9 raw as I have never used it, but I have been shooting raw video exclusively for the past 6 years... 1080p ML Raw with a 5D Mark iii and more recently 4K cDNG with a Sigma FP...
...and I can honestly say that I will never shoot with a heavily compressed codec again...
ProRes is still good, I just can't afford a camera that hasn't effed it up.
...that said, raw isn't for the faint of heart. It takes a lot of storage space, both in camera and in post, but the difference in IQ is instantly apparent. With my 5D3, you can see it on the LCD and smile, but when you get the footage into the computer... it's kinda mind blowing.
And with that said, I still prefer the look of film over digital, so your mileage may vary.

The biggest issue I have with laptops, besides the speed issues, is screen size. My desktop PC, where I do editing, has three 34" 4K monitors. That much screen real estate really makes it easier to edit video and photoshop stills and I'm not willing to give it up just to get portability.

I ‘traded’ (off-loaded to the wife) my M1 14” at the beginning of this year for an M2 Max with 64GB ram 16” because the old one was barely faster than my 7 year old gaming desktop PC.
A good test was batch editing a typical wedding of say 700 raw files through DXO PureRaw tidying up noise and detail.
Overnight on my PC, around 8-10 hours?
Same thing failed every time I tried it on the M1 chip MacBook.
With this year’s M2, 40 minutes maybe?
It has transformed my workflow and as someone who spends a lot of time working away from home Apr-Sep, it’s been brilliant.
I use it with 3 external SSD.
One for photo, one for video, one (armoured) backup for both.
My only wishes were it was slightly less laggy for video editing because yup, there is some (but that may be me not having it set up right?) and I wish the screen was bigger than 16”, but as an all in one, photo and editing machine, at home at the dining room table, or in the office or in the motorhome, it’s a great/essential tool for sure.

Interesting video.
First things first - could that guy be any cooler?  I'm pretty sure there isn't a single element in that video that isn't an automatic 10/10 for hipster chic.  Wow.  Talk about those people whose whole life is their own art project!
Secondly, his commentary is all over the place.
I see the differences he's talking about in the footage, plus a great many more that he probably sees but didn't mention - there are hue shifts and gamma shifts and subtractive colour operations and all sorts of wonderful things that are different between the two cameras.
However, he points to differences and says "see the difference with 10-bit?" whereas I think the differences are likely to be a mix of:
FX6 sensor read-out bit-depth FX6 image processing Sony RAW-LOG profile conversion (gamma, gamut, and bit-depth) FX6 compression I built a DCTL plugin for Resolve that reduces the bit-depth of the image, and to my surprise, you can reduce the bit-depth of rec 709 footage to 6-bits (and some shots to 5bit!) before there are visible changes.  
I'm not saying that there aren't any differences between 16-bit and 10-bit, because there are (however subtle they might be) but the things he was pointing at were definitely NOT all bit-depth related, and I'd suggest that most of them were processing/compression related actually.
If you want to understand what the differences are with one parameter, you can't change dozens of them at once and then just declare that all differences are due to the one variable you want to talk about.  You could take his whole video and just replace the phrase "10-bit" with "compression" and it would make just as much sense, despite having exactly the same examples.
So yeah, it's a great video to show an FX6 LOG vs Komodo X RAW comparison, but it isn't an isolated 10-bit vs 16-bit comparison.

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. I'm heavily invested in Mac... iPhone, FCPX, Logic, even GarageBand, various writing programs... so moving to PC is not even a conceivable notion for me.
As far as needs, I probably should have mentioned that I've been using an early 2014 MacBook Air with Intel, 8gb Ram and 256gb storage (I have a few external drives) for my writing, audio dramas and for transcoding 1080p ML raw and 4K FP cDNG to ProRes HQ or 4444 for light color grading and editing in FCPX. It's always been a bit of a hassle since the MacBook Air doesn't have a 180 degree viewing angle... so there's a lot of trial and error to figure out what looks right... but I had what I had, so I made it work the best I could.
That said, after 9 years, it's showing its age and I am in need of an upgrade. Filmmaking has taken a bit of a backseat over the past couple of years, but I'm still plugging away. I assume 16gb of ram and an M2 would be a luxury to what I'm used to.
Thanks again for your replies!

I can't speak for Z9 raw as I have never used it, but I have been shooting raw video exclusively for the past 6 years... 1080p ML Raw with a 5D Mark iii and more recently 4K cDNG with a Sigma FP...
...and I can honestly say that I will never shoot with a heavily compressed codec again...
ProRes is still good, I just can't afford a camera that hasn't effed it up.
...that said, raw isn't for the faint of heart. It takes a lot of storage space, both in camera and in post, but the difference in IQ is instantly apparent. With my 5D3, you can see it on the LCD and smile, but when you get the footage into the computer... it's kinda mind blowing.
And with that said, I still prefer the look of film over digital, so your mileage may vary.