Beritar

Since we're still talking about Gerald's rolling shutter nonsense with the S1R II, it reminded me that he did a review of the R4D 8K (which, again, has either the same or a very similar sensor).  Note that DJI paid him to do tests on it.  Then note how his discussion of dynamic range is actually very measured, sane, and accurate and without dwelling on things.  In its 8K DRE mode with 30ms rolling shutter, it's basically "this is too slow for some people and content, but for a lot of people, it'll be absolutely fine."
And that review was on a camera that was made to move around and to be used handheld.  He even goes on to say in the conclusion how it's a "best of both worlds option" since it gives the user a choice between great DR or low rolling shutter.
 
 

Watching that last video I came to the opposite conclusion - maybe because I watched most of it with the sound off so I didn't have to hear Gerald's commentary. My observations were:
1. The base rolling shutter is fine and the criticisms amount to hysteria. The 15ms shots looked better, sure, but only because you're comparing back to back. No viewer in the real world would care.
2. *Panasonic has provided multiple modes that allow you to mitigate RS*. Amazing that isn't the the takeaway. You can get decent read speed in a pinch, you just have to make some (minor) compromises.
3. Don't do panning shots with telephoto lenses. If Robert Altman super-zoom pans are your jam, then the S1RII sucks.
I like how the first thing the camera guy Gerald wrangled along said was 'I mainly do dolly shots so rolling shutter doesn't matter to me' and then had to come up with some debilitating circumstance for bad RS. If you listen to Gerald's commentary then you get a negative take-away. If you just use your eyes you see a really capable and flexible camera.

Yes they use the same processing. The S5 only has the 6K photo mode which is more 5K and cropped, nothing comparable to the Open Gate of the S1 and S1H. On the S5 and S1, I never seen posterization on skin but I mostly shoot below 2000 ISO.
Yes HLG on the GH5 was great, even more when using the 5,2K 4:3 Open Gate mode. No oversharpening, detailed but very natural image, more than the recent Panasonic cameras.

Just picked up an S5 for 764 Euros to replace my GH2 for live streaming. I'm not sure anyone will notice anything meaningful on the other end, but damn, the image is great even at 1080p. I’ve decided to dedicate it to all my vintage glass. To celebrate, I found an absolute gem—the Pentax 28mm f/3.5 (K version, not the M version). I had that lens before but regrettably sold it (note to self: 'Don’t sell vintage glass for peanuts!'). I used it on the A7RII for about a year—it was great, but I can already tell Panasonic is definitely going to elevate my footage for video.

That is probably why my experience hasn't been too bad with the S5 AF, as I use the Lumix lenses. The S5II X is leagues better, for sure, but I've always found the S5's auto focus to be pretty decent once you realize the limitations. The only time I'd consider it unusable is in low light and when you shoot wide open with a faster lens and are trying to track a subject that is moving around a bit. With my event shooting though I'm not shooting wide open very often unless I really need the light, because I don't really need/want shallow depth of field.

But S5 and S1 have they same processing and image, right? @Beritar Doesn't the og S5 also sport open gate? Have you encountered pinkish blotches/posterization on evenly lit skin in Vlog 10bit 422 150mbit? It occured to me when filming skin with heavy makeup. HLG in that mode seemed without it. I always loved the GH5 in HLG in 10bit HD All-Intra btw. Beautiful image.

Yes, the S5 is still a great camera, AF-C s is pretty bad with most Sigma DG DN lenses though.
I prefer the S5 to my S5II, but I like the S1 even more, the 5,9K and Open Gate are crazy good, nicer image quality than the S5II, better detail (like a raw file), no oversharpening and no chroma noise reduction. The image is very similar to the Nikon Z6III 6k raw, but with slightly better IBIS and of course worse AF.

The S5 is a really great value, especially used. The AF isn't nearly as bad as people say, and manual focusing is a dream. There are better cameras out there but none of them are a better value. There has never been a better option for budget filmmaking IMO and I'd be hard pressed to say that any other camera out right now is worth the price difference on what you'd pay for this camera used. 
Think about what we paid for our first "real" camera and then think about how you can get a used full frame camera with pretty much every pro feature you could ask for for like $1000 USD used. 10 years ago my mind would have been unable to comprehend the value that is the S5 in 2024.
I very much like my S5II X and will likely switch out my two S5 bodies for two S5II bodies in the next couple of years, but I do like the image out of the original S5 more. It's just really pleasing. No longer needing to color match them and enjoying the quality of life upgrades on the S5II outweighs the better image, but the S5II image is more than "good enough."
I think I'll also end up probably getting an S9 as a personal/super low profile camera. It's actually nearly the perfect BTS/social media camera for my event shoots. Being able to hand it off to someone to film content for our IG, Facebook, and YouTube reels would be really great since it can shoot in open gate and be cropped for each platform. 

I didn't know about this issue with the update. Even moreso, the original S5 seems a very compelling choice as a personal camera.@Attila Bakos Not even to speak about used market prices. S5D, or whatever the relaunched original S5 is called, should have been updated with a full Hdmi to make it suitable for hasslefree wireless video monitoring and being the perfect entry into A Cam territory for a variety of film and video work. Micro Hdmi on an otherwise nearly perfect Dslm is still a heartbreaker. S1 is too big. S1H, though just as big, feels like a marvel and kinda worth the weight. Still, og S5 with full hdmi, so compelling to think of.

I really hope so. I think it would be a big mistake to not port everything from the S9 to the S5ii/X as soon as possible.

The lack of new S Pro lenses since 2020 and the fact that they use the same IMX 410 sensor since the S1 in 2019 (a sensor from 2018 introduced with the Sony A7III) is very concerning to say the least.
I like my Lumix cameras and lenses but honestly, I really think about switching to Nikon and adapting my FE lenses on a Z6III and Z8.

It's regrettable because cameras like the GH2 and GH5 were truly industry-leading in any number of ways.  I loved both of them - but failure to continue innovating has let everybody else catch up or surpass them.

I'd say the A7 IV has a better sensor in a similarly priced body ($1500-2500 market).
The Z6 III clearly is a new generation of sensor, in that same mid-range price bracket.
The S5 Mark II is competitive on price, but Panasonic may as well give up on taking any sales away from the others.
I really do think now that they have quit the flagship enthusiast and high-end market, in order to leave it to Leica.
There can be no other explanation.
The S1 series didn't sell well enough, so why throw good money after bad when they can use a tiny fraction of the budget on very low-cost stuff like the S9 with a 7 year old sensor?
And they have continued to get new LSIs and new firmware features such as on the GH7, new codecs, ProRes, etc.
So maybe there is a built up to a new S1H or something like that.
But I just find it all very strange that in the 6 years between the big important S1 series launch and now, they have absolutely nothing to show for it.
https://www.eoshd.com/news/panasonic-hiatus-worries-as-flagship-cameras-remain-nowhere-to-be-seen-in-2024/

They have not entirely quit the camera industry but it does feel like a soft quit at the moment.

No, I do not agree.
Regardless of what is said between the alps, it is a fact that they have not renewed their flagship FF models for more than 5 years. And it doesn't matter that the ones we have are very good. That's the market, baby! That's the rules, right or wrong, and if Pana doesn't follow them they get written off.
Unless Lumix is a secret cult or has a history like Leica.
No, it doesn't have both.
In the next few weeks Sony will make a big announcement. By the time (perhaps) Pana unveils these damn S1M2s, its direct competitors will have completed two iterations of their models.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we should follow trends but let's connect the dots: if Pana wants to be in the market and have access to the latest technology in sensors and microchips they have to have the minimum numbers. Having the sufficient numbers is not just to make money but mainly to be able to afford to have a custom sensor designed or access to fewer nanometer (advanced) chips. Otherwise they are cut off.
And when the numbers are what we were quoting just few post before, they are on the edge of extinction. 
Imagine that in 2025 Pana sells 260K cameras while retaining 2023 numbers. How many will be S1HIIs? I mena with a new sensor? That is, how many custom sensors can you ask a supplier for? Maybe too few and you have to choose from the catalog.

How can we not think they are leftovers?
That is why I continue to say that this announcement is pure commercial suicide.

- Hey, we have 5,000 electronic S5s and S5 shells in stock. What are we going to do with them? 
- Why don't we write a firmware upgrade for the Lidar and resell them?
- great idea!
They would have been better off throwing them to the recycling bin. 

I was hoping on a big firmware update for the s5ii, but looks like a snoozefest. Unless I am missing something, there isnt anything in there that I need.

Confirmed: So it's S5D, S9 firmware, and S5ii/x firmware.

...Tired of waiting. Literally just want the S1H and S1R with some refresh features from the s5ii. I've been thinking of going full nikon Z + sony E for the system I grow into.

In my eyes this and the skating video show the most convincing image quality of any DSLM. These and some Z8 and Z9 stuff. And that by far. Kinda looks like a 6K/4K version of the image coming from a BMMCC or og BMPCC. I'm impressed!

If anyone is interested in Nikon Z6 III's video quality
 

Hopefully with the next round of LUMIX pro flagship cameras we will get an OLPF filter choice again and we will hit a sweet spot between the older S cameras IQ and the newer S5ii cameras features. 

Interesting test but I own a lot of camera and there is much more to said about image quality.
The way the details are altered with noise reduction even at low ISO is also important. To my eyes, my S5II has a very bad rendering in 4K, even more with the standard profiles. Yes 6K and 6K Open Gate are better, but the image still looks more processed than on my S1.  And another issue with Open Gate (and even 6K) is the IBIS which is worse (mainly while walking) than in 4K.

 

Interesting test but I own a lot of camera and there is much more to said about image quality.
The way the details are altered with noise reduction even at low ISO is also important. To my eyes, my S5II has a very bad rendering in 4K, even more with the standard profiles. Yes 6K and 6K Open Gate are better, but the image still looks more processed than on my S1.  And another issue with Open Gate (and even 6K) is the IBIS which is worse (mainly while walking) than in 4K.

 

I thought I might share this. It would be interesting to hear some thoughts on resolution, moiré, aliasing, etc.
 

Yes over 4 and 5 years, that points to something quite wrong doesn't it?
Is Pana soft quitting on us? I sincerely hope not.
Also you will notice the SL3 has also quite an old off the shelf Sony sensor, same as A7R IV and Sigma Fp-L.
Certainly nothing as cutting edge as a Z6 or A1.
Where's the L2 partnership going exactly? Into the old parts bins for cheap?