yoclay

On 9/4/2019 at 8:38 AM, CaptainHook said:

Not that it changes your point but that figure is either old, just plain wrong, or only speaking about the amount of staff in Melbourne (which is fairly close).

https://www.owler.com/company/blackmagicdesign

On 8/31/2019 at 4:28 PM, Andrew Reid said:

Pocket 4K/6K sit in a big ecosystem of software and hardware from Blackmagic. You can't isolate the sales figures of a couple of devices as all the other stuff is important for Blackmagic, and Pocket cameras help their business profile and ecosystem.

The main point is - if all these huge companies - Sony, Blackmagic, Nikon, Panasonic, Fujfilm, etc. feel that video on mirrorless cams and under $3k is a worthwhile thing. So Canon must be shooting themselves in the foot by being the odd one out. Cinema EOS don't count. Different thing altogether.

Simple as that.

Blackmagic is not a huge company.  Not even close.

Panasonic has 273,358 employees.

Canon has 197,673 employees.

Sony has 117,300 employees.

Fujifilm has 79,000 employees.

Nikon has 25,729 employees.

Blackmagic has 372 employees.

Personally, I would rather see less resolution and more of the updated processing power that is obviously being implemented given to the elimination of rolling shutter issues.  It is the single biggest dead giveaway that one is shooting with DSLR's.

3 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

X-T3 versus PK4.

https://www.4kshooters.net/2018/12/17/bmpcc-4k-vs-fujifilm-x-t3-which-one-to-pick/

Actually his conclusion about the Pocket having better highlight retention than the XT-3 seems a bit skewed.  He base's this on having more tools in Resolve, because it's raw.  But in fact when you look at the files, the Xt-3 has far more chroma info.  Once again, grading in the eyes of someone who doesn't appear to know that much about grading seems to be all based on what button you can click on or what LUT you can apply.  Which is just silly as far as I am concerned.  If you just look at the files on the scopes you can see that the BMPC4K is clipped more harshly and that it is missing chroma info by comparison.  This would be consistent with my experience of BM in general.  Images have info, but lack chroma range.  Lastly, he incorrectly states that the URSA has 16 stops of dynamic range.  No way in heaven this is true.  I would be surprised if they have more than 13.5 to be honest...

Talk is cheap.

Red is not. And has never been.

Remember 3k for $3K?

This is not about inexpensive, high quality prosumer cameras for everyone.

Nor is it about Foxconn getting into the camera game.

What this is really about is RED getting into the expensive (read 8K video) telephone business.

All the rest is hype and BS.

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Your whole premise is based on a slice of the market that isn't representative.

Ask any of the distributors, retailers and rental shops and they will tell you that the majority are using the C200 as their main rig.

That RED, C700, F55, Alexa users will consider it a B-camera does not make it "Not an A-cam" in the eyes of the rest of the pro video market.

I know Cinema5D think $8000 is little money... all those ads are clearly paying well.

For the rest of us it's an A-camera.

They won't say anything yet because the C200 hasn't even reached their premises.

The majority of rental houses would not say the C200 is an A-Cam by the way.  No way.  That's like saying people are currently renting the C100 as an A-Cam.  For that it would need at least a broadcast quality codec and for the moment that is not the case.  This is not an accident.

The vast majority of rentals are for cameras that people cannot afford themselves.  The average price point for a camera rental package is 10-30K.  Otherwise people just buy the cams.  The C300's go out all the time.  They are one of the most popular cameras out there for rental.  The cost of renting a C300 is not very different than renting a C100, so why go with the latter ?

I know this because I worked in rental houses.  And by the way, the camera is to a rental package what the burger is to Mcdonalds.  An excuse to sell the fries.

It's all the extras around the cameras which people cannot afford where they make their money.

In larger markets like Los Angeles and New York by the way, the majority of owner operators own at least a RED Epic.  It's practically expected by clients these days.

That's minimum 15K.  Sad but true (I pretty much hate RED).

You spoke about the rest of the video market.  The average level of camera for working professionals for local spots is at least a Sony FS7.  Configured that's 10K.

That is because it is broadcast spec and has the minimum bells and whistles.  The same reason why they might own a C300 as well.

Showing up with only a GH5 or an A7SII would be a big no-no for even local producers.

By the way, I haven't worked for Cinema5D in about 4 years, so frankly do not have a clue what their thinking is around the subject.

What seems clear to me is that they also want C100 users to make the stretch upwards and they don't want to destroy the C300 market, which is broadcast, by bringing the broadcast level codec on board too soon. Who wants to bet against me that the C300 III comes out before this codec ?   I think the C100 series might also be toast in fact.  But that remains to be seen.  The RAW lite adds extended dynamic range and touches the indie market and the dual pixel AF is attractive to a lot of other folks in the industry.  I think it will smoke the new Panasonic for this reason.

For me it is very clear the C200 is a B-Cam to the C700 and the next generation C300 users.

So then in fact it is probably more a B-Cam to the C700. Which makes sense to me.  Which also says the next generation C300 will have it too.

The whole premise of this article is that the price point of the cam is as an A-Cam is false.

The C200 is a B-Cam.

Not the other way around.

Despite the fact that the price point of the camera may be expensive for some people here does not make it an A-Cam.

Canon have a C300 and 700 series out there that shoot 4K.  The C100 does not. The C200 does for half the cost. That spells B-Cam.

Making the assumption that they should now come up with a B-Cam for their B-Cam strikes me as a bit silly.

The camera that just keeps on giving.

Thanks to the ML team which just keeps on giving.

Not particularly pretty ? That stills look terrific Mercer.

I have always loved the 14 bit image coming from the 5D3.  As someone who does a lot of grading (even professionally) I have always found the 5D3 offered very true color right out of the box.  If the exposure is on, I often don't even need to correct it.

Which brings me back to a discussion with a very well known DP recently.  He said he would rather have great color depth at FullHD on a camera  than higher dynamic range or resolution at lower bit depth.  I think he is right.  As a DP our job is to get the exposure right and control the light. 

Kudos for the superb work, ML.  Thanks for bringing this to our attention as well Andrew.

21 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

That article wasn't a review.

It was more of a news announcement and an opinion piece.

As far as EVFs go it's best in class. That is a fact! Nothing controversial about that.

Zacuto never gave me a loan unit. Count the number of Zacuto articles on EOSHD - what is it - something like 1 or 2 in 5 years.

Hardly shill like behaviour.

And for internal recording I'd much prefer to use the Zacuto Eye on a small camera than a whopping big field monitor.

The SDI input isn't a problem. You can get tiny HDMI to SDI converters for $70.

Blackmagic do one.

https://www.bpm-media.de/Studiotechnik/Konverter/Mini-Konverter/HDMI-=/X/Blackmagic-Design-Micro-Converter-HDMI-to-SDI::372209.html?language=de&gclid=CLa706XAztICFQIL0wodRvkFEg

The irony is you critisise me for criticising C5D then call me a shill! But I'm willing to let it go as you were a great mod over at the Cinema 5D forums... You put a lot of passion into that place. Surely, were you not just a bit pissed off at Seb and Nino when they decided to offload the entire forum to Planet5D on the condition the idiot over there would monetise it?

That community sold into the gutter for a penny.

And I would never sell my members to anyone - they are not mine to sell.

Like I say, you can use the Zacuto Eye on DSLRs with a $70 HDMI -> SDI

I don't know why Seb thought he could trade people's forum activity for money... That's the crux of that little matter.

Yes I do have a chip on my shoulder but in this instance mainly because they slated the GH5 without understanding the technical reasons behind the macro blocking in 10bit.

Yet they are in direct contact with Panasonic about this and leading them down the garden path to announcements, firmware updates and god knows what else.

Quality feedback is extremely important.

I advised Panasonic not to put a statement out about it because it would only draw attention to a negative from a flawed test, which basically claimed the GH5 was unusable for professional work, when the truth is the opposite and it is actually an incredible piece of engineering with a few normal compression artefacts in VLOG if you grade it wrong.

Facts bro.

If you need the broader picture about my supposed 'chip on shoulder' then you need to consider the full history of what Cinema5D has done for the DSLR video community. Here's a brief outline -

1. Nino and the other Seb plucked out of obscurity by Philip Bloom to intern on the infamous Red Tails shoot. Nino and Phil have remained friends

2. The point being he did not get noticed out of the quality of his work, rather by association with who he knew.

3. Cinema5D started with Jared Abrams in L.A. covering DSLR video, hence "5D" in the domain name

4. Nino instigated the shift to professional cameras and a professional standpoint on everything, completely jettisoning the fun aspect and alienating enthusiasts, as well as damaging the democratic aspect of the whole community at that time. Meanwhile Jared was dumped out in the cold.

5. Nino gives seminars and talks for money at trade shows every year and has been at almost every one I've ever been to in some kind of manufacturer or dealer sponsored capacity... BVE, Photokina, etc. Nothing wrong with making a living of course but to then turn around and claim you're giving unbiased advice on Cinema5D is a bit rich in my view. You can't do both.

6. The forum was offloaded to Mitch at Planet5D, the most clickbate resource in the whole community, he of course made a huge fuck up and it haemorrhaged users. Seb I believe did this because he couldn't be bothered to maintain it despite the fact he had a team of mods to help him, and he wanted to off load it for cash. Disgusting.

7. The general content there is just so bland. Yet because of all their manufacturer associations it floats the public's attention like sponsored content.

8. Even during the years when we were on good terms, in the past Cinema5D rarely if ever mentioned my articles in their coverage... mean spirited.

9. Rather they saw me as a bitter rival to be crushed.

10. Way before my first ever article criticising their actions, they have been extremely rude to me behind closed doors... dismissive and argumentative.

Actually Andrew, I don't view you any more of a shill than them.  Which is my point.  I think everyone is just trying to create something in their own way.  And I really respect that.  As you know it takes a lot of effort to keep any project up and running.  Hat's off to everyone who does it ! I was not upset about the cinema5D forum being let go of either (thank you for the compliment for my moderation by the way,  I really tried to keep it a place where there was respect for everyone). To be honest, I think the forum was declining considerably because everyone was moving on from the 5D and that there are sufficiently other forums out there that it wasn't needed.  Actually, I find myself going to the new cinema5D frequently just to keep abreast of developments in a simple visual way, rather than piling through DVXuser posts, etc.

What I think too, is that the next step in each person's career requires increasing relationships to the community of professionals on all levels.  This is how a reputation develops and work is to be found.  It's a normal part of the growing process. I think Cinema5D have tried to do tests which are independent of sponsorship and have on many occasions criticized the advance products they tested from many companies which were even sponsoring some of their trade floor interviews.  On the other hand, I myself said that I would like to see more about the sensor issues related to the new Blackmagic 4.6K Pro, rather than a list of already available new hardware features. 

Ultimately, respect is valuable in these times.  I am horrified by the inflammatory tweet wars going on in my own country for instance.  I prefer to believe in the best of people rather than focusing on the negatives.

Keep up the good work and the passion Andrew !

Peace out.

Clayton

4 hours ago, Orangenz said:

Come on, keep it positive yoclay.

That is precisely my point.  Instead of slagging off Cinema5D, why not give everyone a pass ?  As I said we are all doing the best we can. That is certainly a more positive outlook than calling people snobs who only spend their time at trade shows.  My experience of Sebastien and the rest is that they are nice, sincere people getting along and trying to build something like the rest of us. 

Well, that was a pretty nasty little article.  Why bother ?  The guys over at Cinema5D are trying hard just like everyone else.  Andrew, you talk about them basically as if they were corporate shills, but on the other hand I remember very clearly you promoted the Zacuto eye, saying what a great small EVF for small DSLR cameras

Quote

Shipping from April 25th, the Gratical Eye is something I’ve been waiting a long time for, to pair with cameras like the Panasonic GH4, Canon 1D C and Sony A7S II – a super compact EVF which rivals the beautiful new Leica SL EVF for image quality. It features a very large 0.61″ panel (similar to the Leica SL’s 0.66″ EVF) and packs 5 million dot resolution versus the 4.4 million of the Leica SL’s. - Andrew Reid

and when I pointed out repeatedly that it had no HDMI input (only SDI so really not adapted at all to those cameras) in your forum, not once ever did you respond.  The point is that your criticism can be extremely harsh, yet I don't see you holding yourself to the very same standards you ask of other people.  It's obvious that not once did you try the product with the DSLR's you mentioned or even consider such a glaring error, so what was that article?  Nothing but an empty promo in the end, right ?

I don't point this out to shame you, but merely to say that your article seems harsh, strident and unfair.  You really seem to have a chip on your shoulder. You could have just as easily rebutted their findings with the points you made in a more gracious manner.  In the current climate do we really need more harsh hate filled rhetoric these days ? Maybe they got it right, maybe they didn't on the GH5, but it's important to cut everyone a little slack now and then. 

Frankly, I still don't understand why this posting of Andrew's has not been amended.  He is quick to attack manufacturer's for their sloppiness, but man this is a glaring error. The crux of his original post clearly presents this viewfinder as working with DSLR's which only have HDMI out, yet it is an SDI only EVF.  The only way to deal with this is some kind of conversion box, which defeats the whole purpose of a smaller EVF.

I don't agree that it takes a lot of extra work in post to make an SLOG image look good.  I think many people simply don't know how to grade very well.  It's a skill like any other.  Once your blacks and whites are leveled out, it takes very little time to establish a look for a scene or to create presets which work just fine.  Whether it's RAW or SLOG, the work is pretty equivalent.  Nor do I think that Sony produces images which are more Video-ish than BM or RED.  That was years ago. The truth is that highlight roll-off and greater dynamic range above middle grey are where improvement is needed.  Apparently, this is what is coming from the BM 4.6K Ursa Mini.  So great.  However, if you know how to light, most of this is a non-issue.  If you are run-n-gun documentary types, then none of these cameras are really fulfilling.  What is at issue is ergonomics, quick focusing, etc.  That's mostly Canon, whose DR isn't even close.  Or the FS7 for on-the-shoulder work. Different strokes for different folks.

I have already been down this road for several fashion shoots. It is absolute hell to edit.

One day of shooting, four days of editing.  The loss of time in post production is the single greatest reason why the concept does not in any practical way work.  Perhaps the on set photographer may lose their jobs eventually, but for the rest of us taking stills is a far more effective workflow than pulling from video.

Does anyone know if the Atomos Shogun does anamorphic desqueeze or not?

I see lots of varying reports.  Innocinema says it does, others fail to mention it.

If so, anyone know the ratios covered?

Richard seems to be pretty pre-occupied right now.  Doesn't seem to be responding to my queries apart from an initial reply several days ago.  Anyone else out there capable of undertaking this?

 

I believe Sony have shown us the future of full frame digital capture.  The mirror is a vestigal tail of photography, a sixth toe.   They just need to straighten out their ergos and menus.  If they don't screw it up, they could dominate and pull the rug out from CanNikon.

I think Roger Deakins would strongly disagree with you about mirrors. Which is one of the reasons why he chose Alexa over RED for Skyfall. And he has a few other films under his belt. Almost all EVF's , even on the cameras themselves have lag and poor resolution.  If you regulary do interviews you know what I am talking about.  More than ever you are looking at a video monitor, not reality and all the details that are as a result. 

Personally, I think the greatest problem with digital cameras is that they are less and less often coming with mirrors.  I work ten time faster with a mirrored camera when shooting photos for instance and I don't even have to turn on a camara if I just want to frame a shot.  I would much prefer to have an digital overlay on a mirrored image, than a pixellated monitor any day.  However, we are still a few years out on that one.

Andrew,

How much better is the rolling shutter in APS-C mode compared to FF?

I agree that Sony should have provided a 4k solution off the bat.  I also HATE that the only 2 current solutions for this camera in 4K will have 7" screens.  How stupid is that? Why can't someone make a 5.6`' DP-4 style solution that functions as a recorder, a monitor and with the addtion of a hood as an EVF?  Seems kind of obvious to me.  Shows once again that the people making these things are not shooters.

Clayton

Sent you a PM.

Hello,

I have an Iscorama which needs regreasing.  Focus ring is pretty stiff and is sticking a bit at one point.

I am currently located in Paris, France, so looking for help in the EU.  Trying to avoid Van Diemen and TLS as quite expensive.  Any other suggestions?

Also noticed there was a mod for close focus mentioned on this forum, but wondered if anyone had photos?

Cheers,

CB