Michael Ma

That rolling shutter at the 55-57 seconds in...Doesn't look good.

5 minutes ago, mercer said:

Honestly, if I do get one, I’ll keep a 22mm in my pocket for stills and 1080p and a couple c-mounts in my other pocket for 4K.

There’s no DPAF in 4K.

 

Canon is being Canon.  No DPAF in 4K and ridiculous crop.  I wonder how terrible the rolling shutter is.  I'm surprised how much hype is around this camera that has useless 4K.

2 hours ago, cantsin said:

I think you guys are mixing up Megabits and Megabytes. 

Codecs are normally specified in Megabits - so the 400Mbit/s of the GH5 codec are actually only 50 MB/s. 

SDcard speeds are specified in Megabytes per second. So a 300MB/s card  (=2400 Mbit/s) is complete overkill for the GH5.

A run-of-the-mill 95MB/s Sandisk Extreme Pro will be more than sufficient for the camera. (Even the Sandisk Extreme with a read speed of 80MB/s and nominal write speed of 60MB/s should theoretically work, but should be tested first.)

 

Everyone here I imagine would know the difference.  But it sounds like you don't know the quirks of the GH5?  All UHS-I cards labeled 95MB/sec, even the best ones, won't sustain at 400mbits/sec (50MB/sec) on the GH5 because Panasonic has made it that way.  Panasonic also has set an arbitrary restriction that it won't do dual (redundant) 400mbits/sec recording on UHS-II cards unless it identifies itself as a v90 card.  So the Sandisk 300MB/sec UHS-II card will do 400mbps on a single card, but if you have 2 of these cards on the GH5, it won't do dual (redundant) recording because the SanDisk 300MB/sec not seeing it as a v90 card.  

Jon, by any chance, do you own 2 Panasonic 128GB v90 cards?  The rumor is Pansonic v90 cards are the only cards that are actually recognized as v90 cards on the GH5 and thus the only cards you can do backup recording at 400mbps.  Some SD card firmware programmer chimed in once at one of the GH5 facebook groups I visit.  He said it needs a special hard baked flag on the card which many v90 card manufacturers haven't adopted.  And since then, I've only talked to one person who have bought 2 Panasonic v90 cards to confirm this.  I've heard many people say that 2 Angelbird v90 or 2 ADATA v90 didn't allow backup recording at 400mbps.

My second curiosity is that, if Panasonic is willing to do that, are my 300MB/sec cards not being utilized by the GH5 in other ways?  If you have some time to spare, can you test if raw photos are written faster on a Panasonic v90 card versus another non-Panasonic 300MB/sec card?  The GH5 has the buffer for about 61-62 raw photos which will be written to my 2000x Lexar at about 100MB/sec.  Give or take 5MB/sec.  Would a Panasonic v90 card be able to clear the buffer faster?

Hopefully this video will show dissuade you from buying a 5D4 if you need 4k.  From my personal tests, the rolling shutter is so bad you can even see the lag when doing a closeup on someone's face even when you're not panning.  They compare the rolling shutter to the 1DX2 which is far better in 4K when it comes to rolling shutter.

1 hour ago, Eno said:

C-LOG is close to useless in a 8 bit only IMO, + it exhibits banding in the shadows (even Canon themselves caution this). MJPG is an dinosaur of a codec, it's superiority ended in 90's. + if you dare to think about the "luxury" of recording 4K externally from the 5D mk4, you don't have it...nada, niente, no...you're stuck with the very old, extremely inefficient Motion JPOG encoding...That's it, end of story!

I never said anything about sharpness, I was referring to detail or the lack of it. The so called Canon 4K is more like a 2,5K resolution wise, the FHD is as pour as in 2008 (this year Canon celebrates 10 years of unchanged "1080" quality).

Did I missed anything?

You missed the part people have been using 8bit C-Log for years with very little issues with banding.  Are you saying GH5 has better LOG because it is 10bits? 

I think if you want video there are better options from Panasonic, Canon, and Sony. All these cameras could use canon lenses. 

I don't think D850 solves any particular problem in the video market.  Maybe if they had DPAF and a fully articulating swivel screen, and clean 4K like the GH5, then it would offer a solid argument for people to switch their entire set of lenses with the blind faith that Nikon will keep up to date with video tech in the future.  It's a risky leap of faith. I think it's a great camera for Nikon shooters and people who that aren't heavily invested in one system

If you remember the original launch of the 5D Mark II, it didn't include 1080p 24p.  Only after a public outcry, Canon caved to the public demand and released a firmware update that included 24p.

https://prolost.com/blog/2010/3/1/canon-adds-24p-to-the-5d-mark-ii-and-i-blame-you.html

So looking back, Canon has been trying to limit video capabilities to be on their photo cameras, even on the launch of the 5D Mark II.  But they cannot stop the momentum of the market demand that was forced on them, which they had a big part in creating.

On 6/3/2017 at 2:26 AM, philipd said:

Hi

It is very likely the new ALL-I 400Mbits/sec recording speed will require V60 cards, and will refuse to work on any other card regardless of the claimed or achieved write speeds.  V30/V60/V90 are new protocols/hardware changes, so it's not just a case of any fast enough card will trick the camera into thinking it supports a fast enough write speed, a V60 card reports to the recording device it's capabilities and handshakes, and the recording device then operates in different recording mode to guarantee write speeds.

Basically many memory cards have played a marketing game with headline write and read speeds, and for real-time recording the highest speed isn't relevant, it's the minimum write speed that decides a good recording or failed one, regardless of when the card was formatted and if it has been previously used since.

Memory cards that show V30/V60/V90 have guaranteed minimum write speeds, and this is achieved by new protocols and methods of writing to the card.  These newer V60 cards aren't due to start arriving until the summer, which is probably why Panasonic have delayed launching ALL-I.

So be careful about stocking up on memory cards until we know if cards that aren't V60 capable will be written to for ALL-I as a best effort type thing or will be blocked completely to save complaints when things go wrong. 

Regards

Phil

3

From my observation, Panasonic doesn't have much to gain by putting arbitrary limitations on SD cards, and since it seems like they are on the side of the customer, I'm hopeful these will work fine when the 400mb/s update hits.  I'm not saying people all should run out and buy the Lexar 2000x cards.  But I do firmly believe Lexar, a subsidiary of Micron, is a better brand than a brand like Delkin, who seems to be the only manufacturer selling v90 cards at the moment, who is not even a part of the SD Association.  I'm posting information for people who already have the 2000x cards who've ordered a GH5, pre-buying other slower cards just because someone has said they don't work.  I'm just saying not only do they work, but they work well, so they can save their money buying slower cards for the GH5.

Thanks for the hack!  Works great on my GX85.  Just for kicks, I tried it on my GF7, and it had the very opposite effect.  The contrast felt like it was turned to 11, and all shadows were nearly black while half the sky was clipping to cyan.

18 hours ago, buggz said:

Which card is this?

I current use a Lexar 2000X in my GH4, and have a GH5 on it's way to me, so, I need a new card, or so I've read...

Thanks, I wil look this up.

I'm using Lexar 2000x cards right now on the GH5 and they work great.  I have a few of them including the 128GB and the 32GB ones.  They all work great on the GH5.  My tests say that when they are freshly formatted, the GH5 writes 100Mbytes/sec (about 800Mbits/sec).  And a fragmented nearly full card will still not dip below 70MBytes/sec (560Mbits/sec).  They do read/write much faster on a computer, but those are the speeds on my GH5.  

I read the page where a guy tested a plethora of SD cards including the Lexar 2000x cards and reported that he got 35MB/sec.  Definitely no problems like that on my side.  As a matter of fact, my 2000x Lexar's seems to outperform every card he tested according to his results.

14 minutes ago, jonpais said:

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by composition - composition of which shot? "Composition needs to be strong at ISO 12800" - could you clarify this for us a bit? ?

 

 

Where the director wants you to focus on when looking at the image rather than your eyes hunting for meaning, subject, bright spots of the image.  When the subject or narrative is not clear, the eyes will wander looking at extraneous detail such as sharpness, noise, etc.

25 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Hugh Brownstone decides the GH5 is a keeper. Here he does low light tests. Unlike so many of these talking heads whose faces look like magenta marshmallow blobs (99% of what I've seen here), Hugh at least has enough respect for his audience to correctly light, expose, and white balance his face. I can't really take many of these other reviewers seriously when they don't even know the very basics of photography. And yes, I will be getting the GH5.

 

 

 

I really like this guy's videos.  If somebody is taking a magnifying glass to the dark shadow areas the image, the real failure is the composition of the shot.  Noise only becomes a problem when it steals away focus from the message.  ISO 6400 is clean enough where it should never happen.  At 12800, I think it the composition needs to be strong for things like b-roll.

It sounds great.  Same crop with the GH5 with metabones XL.  But if you don't already own the metabones, that puts the GH5 + metabones at nearly the same price range as the 5D4 if you go gray market.  And I'm going to guess 8-bit C-LOG 4:2:2 is more or less on par, and maybe easier to grade than 10-bit V-Log 4:2:2.

GH5 Advanages (even after 5D4 update)

• IBIS
• Fully articulating swivel screen
• Video tools such as focus peaking, waveform, vectorscope
• Legendary Panasonic Battery life (Canon's video recording battery consumption rate is quite high).
• 4K 60p (vs 3K 60p on the 5D4)
• No 30-minute recording limit
• Less rolling shutter

5D4 Advantages:

• DPAF
• Canon skin tones
• Full frame 1080p (unchanged)
• Full frame pictures

Conclusion:  GH5 is still a great purchase.  I wouldn't cancel your preorder.

47 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Wow that is sharp for F1.2, the replacement

What focus distance was the panasonic logo shot at?

 

 

 

I'm going to roughly guess about 7 meters.  I've attached the raw file if you're interested.P1410745.RW2

As a side note, I exported to jpg with Adobe Camera RAW, which adds 25 sharpening by default.  But the blurry image was processed the same way.

12 minutes ago, jonpais said:

I think you meant to say 42.5mm.  Good to hear you stuck to your guns and got the lens replaced. Terrible customer service. I took my Panny 12-35mm f/2.8 into an authorized Panasonic service center here complaining that it didn't seem as sharp as it used to. I'd brought the lens in with a Hoya ND8 filter on it, forgot to remove it before going to the repair center. So the guy holds the camera up, looks through the EVF in the dark shop and tells me there's nothing wrong with it! 

 

Ah yes, 42.5mm!  The repair guy did the same type of subjective test initially.  If it wasn't for your assurance that it wasn't normal, I might still have the blurry center.  Thanks!

Just an update.  I finally got my Pan Leica 85mm 1.2 Nocticron back from Panasonic.  It was a long process (took approximately 10 weeks).  Initially, they did tests and thought nothing was wrong with the lens and on my second visit, I had to show them the difference with a floor model and how all the edges were excellent except the very center which looked fuzzy at 1.2 although it cleared up very quickly when stopped down to 1.8.

Before. 100% crop at the center at f/1.2:

Now, 100% crop at the center at f/1.2

Definitely very happy with the replacement lens.  Maybe even slightly sharper than their floor model.

It's like you invite someone over to a prescreening of a movie that hasn't been audio mastered, and instead of telling you that there were issues with audio and hearing what you have to say about it, they publish an article to the world saying the movie is unwatchable.  Then they make assumptions and state that the audio issues probably can't be fixed.  Should anyone ever let this guy prescreen movies ever?

I would like to know how they graded the 10-bit image, and what software and version they used.  I sure hope they didn't use a LUT for their "rough rec.709 grade".  Almost sounds like it.  If that's the case, it's most likely a major source of the problem.  It does bring up the point if IPB could be inadequate for 10-bit 4K LOG.  I would like to see further on this.  I hope Panasonic sends Andrew a GH5 soon!

I would love raw.  And it would make me rethink my GH5 order because raw makes 10-bit 4:2:2 look very compromised.  But watching the Panasonic interviews, a reason why they don't implement things is that some features that people want causes overheating issues.  Not sure if this would, but let's say Sony does allow raw recording.  Looking at their track record, I would absolutely make sure RAW video doesn't cause some crazy impracticality issues, like overheating.

12 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Thanks Michael, but I believe John Matthews already posted about that here.

Ah, I missed that!  I hope the firmware doesn't have adverse effects.  Love it so far.

I'm surprised no one is talking about it because the update is a huge deal for the owners of the GX85/G85.  And I should clarify, you can still hear it if you put your ear to the camera, but it is a huge improvement.  I had to double check to see if the IBIS was still working.  I've also been wondering how many people were going to be disappointed once they realized the GH5's stabilization makes as much noise as it does (assuming it would be as loud as the G85).  I guess it won't be an issue on the GH5 which is fantastic news.

http://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/support/global/cs/dsc/download/fts/index2.html#dsc_dl

On 1/17/2017 at 2:13 PM, jonpais said:

@Michael Ma I just saw a test of the Olympus f1.2 and it has some of the most consistent sharpness from center to edge I've ever seen. The actual center values never reach the spectacular results seen on some lenses when stopped down, but it appears to be an excellent instrument that should satisfy the most demanding user.

Thanks jon.  I definitely would love this lens...actually, I don't think a day hasn't gone by where I haven't thought about getting one but there have been some patent filings for a Leica 25mm 1.2....so I'm going to hold out for a year or two.  I know it really makes no sense image quality wise but I gotta build some anticipation in my life somehow.  

I had my suspicions that a lot of the motivation to have a particular device rated, and not rate competitions on dxomark had to do with sponsorships.

This is always the problem with A and B comparisons.  It is better not to look at them, unless you own the better camera.