tosvus

I got my LX100 yesterday. Don't know how it is compared to the GH4 + 12-35 combo, but the IS seems quite efficient from the tests that I did. The main thing I wanted to confirm is that the IS effectively deminished micro-jitters (which it does quite well, even while holding the camera in your hands only). And the image quality is quite stunning in 4K. I was also pleasantly surprised with image and noise performance in low light/higher ISOs. Up to now, I'm really happy I ordered one! Please report back for your thoughts once you'll have received and tested it!

I wasn't aware there are multiple settings on the LX100, but the discussions I have seen on other forums, from people owning the RX100 and/or the GH4, is that the between the LX100 and RX100, the RX100 has more effective stabilization, but does not maintain the quality level (sharpness, detail), due to active mode doing electronic stabilization on top of optical.
 
A couple of people owning the GH4 as well as the LX100, say that when moving around it is better controlled with GH4 + 12-35 2.8 OIS, but standing still, the LX100 OIS is better. 
 
On a sidenote, as Andrew noted as well, others state moire does not seem to be quantifiable worse than on the GH4, and probably better than GH3.
 
I should get my LX100 on Friday, so looking forward to testing it out.

I have good wide angle converters that are bigger (and pretty expensive) and they work well. For video, you will likely be ok (especially if the final result will be 1080p), for photos I would be more concerned.
 
One note though: depending on the weight and how the lx100 is built/works when focusing/zooming, it could be a concern to mount something more substantial than a filter on the front. Someone else can probably give you a better idea of whether the lx100 is ok for this or not in that sense.

Yeah, you guys are right, in addition to not fitting in your jeans, it also isn't a video camera. Just look at it, it just oozes 'modern retro photo camera'. Just everything about it screams 'take photos with me!'. Except for the fact that it dóes take video. And does that very well so and in 4K. What other camera does that? None. The RX100 doesn't take 4K video. Yeah, maybe your smartphone shoots 4K... but it does so with its tiny sensor, crappy optics/range and shitty bitrate. Great degree of manual control? Forget it! So in fact the LX100 is definitly NOT like every other camera out there.
 
So it doesn't have an audio interface. Well, record externally or if you're just shooting some scenic footage, put some music under there.
So you need to manually select shutterspeed by turning a dial and if you don't want 1/60th but 1/50th of a second, turn two dials. That takes you maybe one whole second, wow, yeah, that's aweful guys, don't buy this, it takes you a second to change shutterspeed. Can you just imagine?
It's not flat enough, I need my flat cinematic profiles. Well, just dial everything back, the colors will stay nice, but yeah, gradeability is slightly effected because it isn't thát flat and doesn't let you push it as far as let's say a BMPCC. Well, you should've gotten that one instead then. Except, unlike the LX100, it doesn't take any stills and 4K video for example. There's compromises lurking around every corner!
 
Nobody's telling you to ditch your current gear and buy the LX100 as your exclusive camera for video! Nobody's telling you the LX100 is ideally designed for video shooting... but again, at the end of the day it does enable you to take very nice 4K video. And what other camera can say the same for 799 EUR? I already have the GH4, if I know I'm gonna shoot video, I will make sure to use that one. If I'm out and about and I'm not planning on shooting any stills or video, but when there's a moment I wish I did, it's nice that I don't have to settle for my smartphone's quality, I can take out the LX100 and shoot awesome stuff! When shooting video with the GH4, the LX100 becomes one hell of a B-camera! Like Andrew said, if you need another angle, the LX100 will help you out greatly! It also intercuts nicely with other footage. At the end of the day... isn't it all about getting the results you're after... or even the ones you before never dreamed of?
 
It's not designed with the main feature being video. So they went with the clickety type (although a declick button would've been a nice feature). Just gotta use a variable ND-filter to gradually control exposure instead.

keep a lookout on eBay. I got one by a DIY guy for 300-something. It doesn't look fancy but works fine. It's limited in weight to something like a nex5n with a kit lens, or possibly a bit heavier. It's a 3-way brushless gimbal and came preconfigured for my cam since happened to have the same on.

I have both, actually all 3.
 
It is hard to tell someone what to buy. The quality of the image and video from the LX100 is very good to excellent. Is it as good as the GH4? I would say if you are a pro and looking for the equal of the GH4 then the answer is no.
 
But if you are an enthusiast and can cut the camera some slack, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference.
 
Remember, I have only had the LX100 here for about 5 hours now, so as time goes on my opinion may change.
 
The disappointing thing about the LX100 is it is certainly not a baby GH4. The camera is 80 percent a point and shoot camera that dips into the higher end here and there. The menus try and emulate the GH4, but they are clumsy, and not just a little bit clumsy - low end pint and shoot type camera clumsy. I am quite surprised.
 
The camera would be a deal breaker for me if it were not for the really good quality video. I expect the images to be excellent too, it leans in that direction but I won't know until I can shoot RAW.
 
Here is a simple example. Say you are not totally or only a video guy. Video is really high on your list, but you want to take meaningful pictures too. I am a photographer, so when I take pictures - even just home pictures - if they are not "excellent" you know darn well the comment "and you are supposed to be a photographer" is going to hit you head on. To achieve those excellent pictures consistently, you really have to have control of the camera. So, take the LX100 in hand, go to take a shot and you will notice you have no control over the focus point. You can press 3 buttons and get control, or set the menu so you can have direct access to the 4 way controller just like the big boy cameras :) As you shoot along you want to do a custom white balance (something a lot of folks won't ever do) and you find you no longer can do a custom white balance unless you go into the menu and undo your setting to have direct access to the 4 way controller dial. You can change the white balance, but you can't do a custom white balance.
 
Now go to video.Is the quality as good as my GH4? not quite. But at 4K reduced to 1080, it is head and shoulders better than any direct 1080p camera I have used. Again, no custom white balance unless you go and reset the main menu back to the way it was. So now you give up using the 4 way controller easily and just go thru the hoops.
 
Bottom line, coming down fro the GH4 the feeling is yuck. Coming up from a Canon G1X II or a Sony RX100-3, the camera is terrific.
 
I won't be grabbing the LX100 for any pro level work, images or video. But I think most people will like the LX100. Its calling card is the 4k video quality - especially when going down to 1080 - and the bigger sensor for all other imaging. The focus is quite good and the camera surpasses almost all other point and shoot sized camera I have used. My problem is at $900 i would really really wanted more of a nod to having some usable features in it. For stills I cannot select a "lowest shutter speed" like I can on the EM1, but the GH4 doesn't have that either.
 
The GH4 with a 12-35 is a dream. It just works - period. if you do put the size differences in the mix, then get the 12-35 lens. If you want a 12-35 lens (almost, but not quite) and a free camera thrown in, then get the LX100.
 
Peter

It has more useful and intuitive fully manual aperture and shutter speed controls. Better than one PASM ring.

Yeah, the sensor inside still is four thirds. But in order to keep the lens as small as it is, in order to get the sharpest results without vignetting, they decided not to use any of the edge pixels of the sensor, so that leaves you with certain crops different for each of the aspect ratio modes. But you'll never get a full readout of the sensor installed, that's very true indeed.
 
 
You're right, it's not a pocket camera, it's a premium compact. If it's too big, get the RX100M3. Although personally I still think the RX100M3 isn't much pocketable either (unless wearing really baggy cargo pants putting it in a pocket located around the hips, just above the knee). Anyways. I don't care that it doesn't fit a jeans' pocket. It still fits a coat pocket perfectly fine and you can throw it in a messenger bag/shoulder bag very easily with all of the other stuff you're carrying around on a daily basis, such as a tablet or whatever, without taking up all the space to a point that you'd rather not have it with you unless you know you're going to be using it. Since I already carry a bag around or outside of summer usually will be needing to wear a coat (it's no sunny southern California around here), I will have it on me always! I can't say that a FZ1000 would fit in my coat's pocket or that a GH4 with 20mm f/1.7 wouldn't add any bulk to my bag (besides, just the pancake would be a little limiting). But the LX100 is very compact.
 
As I said in my first post of the thread, to me the essence is that I have a camera that takes considerable quality stills and videos in a small package. That doesn't mean I can fit it in one of my pants' pockets, it means that it is small and light enough to carry around without being a burden. If you carry it in your coat or bag it doesn't take up much space and you'll hardly notice its presence. But it is always there! So that means, that if you normally don't have your camera with you, because you'd have to carry it on a strap around your neck, which could be rather uncomfortable, especially if you're not even sure if you'll need it, or put it in a bag where it weighs you down and takes up quite a bit of space, now you can. Again, to me this is the answer to the use of the cameras on smartphones. Now, they're getting better, sure, but wouldn't you rather shoot something with the LX100? That's to me where the LX100 kicks in, because I would. And I very much prefer the LX100's handling, features and performance over the RX100's. But to each their own of course. It's just a bit silly to keep picking on the LX100 for not being RX100-sized. Yeah, we know... nobody's saying you can't buy a RX100... there's a good reason there are so many different kind of cameras. Everybody's looking for certain qualities in a camera and that all results into different cameras.

But are you talking about RX100, RX100 II or RX100 III ? Because they are totally diffferent segments! ;)
 
LX100 is 14% wider and taller and 34% thicker than RX100 III
but RX100 III is 14% thicker than RX100 !
 
So just be clear which segment you are talking about: kid's trousers back pocket segment, kid's trousers front pocket, kid's jacket pocket, adult's trousers back pocket, adult's trousers front pocket, adults jacket pocket, snowboarder trousers back pocket...
 
I, for example, am interested only in adult's winter jacket internal pocket segment.

Since LX100 uses the same sensor as GX7, I was able to convert LX100 raw after running exiftool (download from http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/) on raw files tricking it thinking those raws comes from GX7: exiftool -model="DMC-GX7" <raw_file_name> Then you could use raw converter of your choice which supports GX7(I think all do).

It's always been a FT sensor in these cameras. Only the mounttype is called differently to make a distinction between SLR and mirrorless, the mount these days is a MFT/M43 one, it used to be FT when the cameras where still using mirrors (to allow light being redirected to the optical viewfinder). So it still uses a 4/3" sensor (1.33"), but the mount flange focal distance due to being mirrorless (no mirror, so no optical viewfinder, that's why mirrorless cameras have either no viewfinder or a digital one) is greatly reduced.

But hasn´t Andrew just proven that it does not really count if a camera is technically 8 or 10bit if the end result is of good quality? Sure, this is not an Alexa, it´s not 4:2:2 ProRes recording and no 14bit raw video .. but it shoots damn good pictures you have to go quite far to find something similar in 10bit. With stills capability. That size.
 
Wrote a little bit more about mixing LX100 footage with 10bit raw(log) footage here: http://hackermovies.com/panasonic-lx-100-vs-5d-mk-iii-english

By all means, constructive posts are fine, and maybe you can contribute to this thread by being clear about the points in the camera labs review that concerns you the most. I'm sure there are valid concerns that could/should be addressed in a FW update for instance, or if you need to point out certain uses the camera is not going to be great for.
 
The posts that I referred to were either *a* Complaining that a $899 camera doesn't have 4K 10-bit, when Panasonic is pretty much revolutionizing the compact segment to even include 4K. and *b* People that practically cut and paste their own post several times saying why they don't like the camera and another camera is better. That adds nothing to the discussion after the first time.... 

To imagine how many Micro Four Thirds primes you're getting in with the deal, here's what the aperture does throughout the range :)
 
11mm - F1.7 (24mm equiv. taking into account 2.2x crop)
16mm - F2.3 (35mm)
22mm - F2.7 (50mm)
34mm - F2.8 (75mm)
 
Not bad for $899, though I am sure the LX200 will end up with an OLED EVF and F2.0 at a 50mm long end (110mm).

As some have observed, yeah Auto ISO is only for stills mode, when you start recording video it goes off manual ISO only.
 
The way around this is to set the camera to iA mode and shoot in full auto, then the exposure will correct during a recording if the light level changes. I don't recommend shooting video this way because it looks rubbish, but some might find it useful for certain shots.
 
M mode is when the shutter and aperture are set manually. A big M appears in the top left of the screen.
A mode is when the shutter speed is set to auto but aperture is selected on the lens ring.
 
S mode is when the shutter is set on a manual setting and aperture is set to auto on the lens ring.
 
P mode is when both shutter and aperture are on their auto setting.
 
See... who needs mode dials anyway!?

Gordon Laing in the (very detailed) CameraLabs review said that there is no filter thread, hence the confusion.

Adding jacks and circuits adds space. Also there is of course the interest of panasonic to somewhat protect the gh4. I think before judging that too harshly, the gh4 is an incredibly affordable pro solution for video, and for the money what you get with lx100 and fz1000 is an incredible steal. Look at what canon, Nikon and Sony provides to consumers in terms of features and quality vs price on the video front.

Adding jacks and circuits adds space. Also there is of course the interest of panasonic to somewhat protect the gh4. I think before judging that too harshly, the gh4 is an incredibly affordable pro solution for video, and for the money what you get with lx100 and fz1000 is an incredible steal. Look at what canon, Nikon and Sony provides to consumers in terms of features and quality vs price on the video front.

Great writeup Andrew! I just got my LX100 and I'm having fun testing it. 
But I must say, it definitely does NOT have auto ISO with manual ss and manual aperture in video mode. You can set the ISO to auto, but I can confirm that as soon as you hit record it switches to a fixed ISO. Too bad.. On the other hand, you can change ISO during a shot.
A big plus for stills shooters that I haven't seen mentioned is that flash sync goes all the way up to at least 1000th/sec. shutter speed, at least for the external flash I tried. The GX7 only goes up to a 250th I think. Of course an external flash looks ridiculously huge on this camera. The little supplied external flash is obviously an afterthought; it doesn't even tilt up.
One workaround for the lack of touchscreen focusing is to have the "direct focus area" on; that way you can pretty easily move the focus area around with the dial during a shot, if on a tripod. Use function buttons to change ISO and WB.
I've heard that in general the continuous focusing in video mode is better than with the GH4, but don't have a GH4 to compare. Andrew, have you noticed an improvement?
Also, the focusing is supposed to be faster in 4K photo mode as opposed to regular 4K. My testing on that so far is inconclusive. But if it is indeed faster I don't see why you'd ever want to use regular 4K, since with the photo mode you also get to use the bigger, better-placed "stills" shutter button.
On big concern I had was with focus hunting I saw on some sample videos. I'm going to be doing some thorough testing of that, since the camera not being able to calm down and stop hunting during a shot is a serious drawback for the run-and-gun and wedding work I do. With my initial testing it seems that the size of the focus area is important, with either too large or too small of an area causing more hunting. Looks like the pinpoint focusing mode hunts too much to be useful for video. Andrew, how much of an issue has focus hunting been for you?
I will report back when I've been able to do more thorough testing.

Yeah, the FZ1000 has 5-Axis hybrid OIS (mind you, not in 4K or high speed recording), the LX100 just Power OIS (not sure how many axis that is specifcally).
Yes, 4K recording starts countdown from 15mins.
 
No, you cannot use it like this unfortunately.
 
They have to provide some kind of clear separation. Yeah, I know that it's fixed lens solution against an interchangeable lens system, but as someone that invested in a GH4 I would be pretty pissed if a camera would come out with almost the exact same features but put in a smaller and much more affordable package. So I guess that's one side of the story: cutting down on features as to protect the value of higher-end products. Everybody is crippling their lower priced products, it's just how things work at companies. And then on the other side of course it would bump productions costs and bulk of the camera a bit (it will take money and space to implement). And remember, the LX100 and FZ1000 aren't really targeting filmmakers and video enthusiasts per se. There probably only is a relatively small percentage of users actually finding use for these kind of features, although I have to say, some kind of optional connector unit with mic-in and headphone-out would be welcome... but again, that would narrow the gap between lines. I think it's the same reason why they won't give the LX100 a touchscreen. And who knows perhaps they could've given the GM5 4K video as well, but why would someone then still buy a LX100 or GH4?
 
Pretty sure you'll love it! Enjoy!
 
Actually, it hasn't. Because it has no dedicated videomode you can set auto-ISO, but as soon as you start rolling video this sticks with the initial ISO (unless that's what you meant, yeah it does pick that all by itself). Also, the feature completely disappears in 4K Photo mode.
 
It doesn't do anything.
 
Yes, it does indeed! It also features the same accessory ring you'll find on the LX7.

 
Personally I would never put a RX100M3 in my jeans pocket. Maybe it would fit, but it would be uncomfortable and awkward looking. A thin 5.0" smartphone and a filled wallet is what I would carry around maximum... a camera? Don't see it happening. Not even with the LX7, although maybe if you're wearing baggy cargo pants.

Adding jacks and circuits adds space. Also there is of course the interest of panasonic to somewhat protect the gh4. I think before judging that too harshly, the gh4 is an incredibly affordable pro solution for video, and for the money what you get with lx100 and fz1000 is an incredible steal. Look at what canon, Nikon and Sony provides to consumers in terms of features and quality vs price on the video front.

I would never put a camera into my pockets, that place is full of dust and you won't get it out a camera with fixed lens. You also don't want to stress the aligment between lens and sensor.

LX100 has a 43mm filter thread.

Another constructive forum post ehh

I think you can get about a hundred different suggestions, and they will all be covered by our preferences/shooting habits :)
 
Anyway, for a thousand total budget, I would probably go for the lx100 + a couple of nd filters. I am partial to better low light performance, which you would get with this over the fz1000 (the chip is bigger plus the lens is faster), but it has limitations around profiles, lack of audio in etc. I know it was brought up that it has a limited focal range, but you can add a bit onto that if you shoot in 4K and output in 1080p, which allows you to crop in post (to in essence do a zoom).
 
 
The good news is that there are many good options, and if some of you feel the bmpc is the best choice, or the gx7, that is great too! :)